"Hard" Games

[Jay]

Call me crazy but I swear when I was younger I loved games that were crazy difficult. Nowadays I want games to be easy but have a cool story and awesome graphics. I don't even want to look at something like Dark Souls lol. I wonder why I can't stay motivated to beat difficult games anymore.

[Drem]

Whatever Street Fighter nerd. The hardest fucking game in the world

[Jay]

It's totally not the hardest game in the world. Then again, I've grown up with it and the moves are pretty much the same since the early 90's.

[Drem]

I can't press diagonal-down-right to up without pressing something in between. It just never works. It's the only game I've ever broken a controller trying to play. Those big crazy special moves? Forget it. I got SF4 and played it for months and I think I won one single round (not the match) online and felt like I hadn't progressed at all since the day I bought it. I cannot comprehend that game. All i can do is oldschool moves like hadouken over and over and over. Maybe a half circle. hahahahahaha

[Zanchief]

Those games don't use diagonals. You can do a "fireball" with down down right (or left).

[Drem]

Bullshit, there are moves in the move guide in the start menu that are straight up southeast to north. I can only do them on the arcade sticks, if at all

[Zanchief]

They describe them that way, but the game does not require diagonals.

Example. Zangief 360 pile-driver can be done by doing Back, Back Down, Down, Forward, Forward, Up. It's just the way the game is made. The diagonal just substitutes for one or the other.

[Lyion]

Call me crazy but I swear when I was younger I loved games that were crazy difficult. Nowadays I want games to be easy but have a cool story and awesome graphics. I don't even want to look at something like Dark Souls lol. I wonder why I can't stay motivated to beat difficult games anymore.

I'll take a stab:

Because the games suck? Tedious required attention to detail is not fun? We have options? There are hundreds of killer TV shows on broadcast, Netflix, and Amazon that are more entertaining than spending hours and hours on pixellated shit.

I play games I like, like the Witcher. I wasn't even impressed with Bloodbourne, despite the ambiance. If a game is shit, I put it down. Heck, I couldn't even make it 3 hours into Dragon Age: Inquisition.

[Reynaldo]

That's the rub these days. Players demand more content which developers generally oblige but it becomes repetitive and stale.

Only game I've played through and beaten recently is Dragon Age. It starts out horrible, I can definitely see giving up on it quick. But levels 4-14 or so are pretty darn fun...then from 15-23 (end of game) it gets repetitive and boring again.

I pretty much turn difficulty to the easiest level as soon as I start a new game too. Bloodborne doesn't have that option, which is why I've logged about 5 hours into it and haven't gotten past the first boss yet....

[Zanchief]

I'll get to Bloodborne eventually, but haven't had the time.

Been playing Dark Souls lately actually after getting the itch from Brinstar. I'm considering trying to get through all NG+ all the way to 7.

[Jay]

I dunno that I'll ever play Bloodbourne. Right now I'm not really playing anything but in a week I'll be all up ons Dragon Quest Heroes. After that, Fallout 4 and Legacy of the Void (they come out the same day FML) then Star Wars Battlefront, then Mirrors Edge Catalyst in Feb and Mighty No 9.

EDIT: Somewhere in between all that I'd like to play Last of Us.

[Drem]

They describe them that way, but the game does not require diagonals.

Example. Zangief 360 pile-driver can be done by doing Back, Back Down, Down, Forward, Forward, Up. It's just the way the game is made. The diagonal just substitutes for one or the other.

No way. I've never heard anything like this before. Can you prove this? Are you referring to some particular version of the game? They make special controllers for these games specifically to press diagonals. I didnt search deep but i found nothing that says diagonals dont exist. And how would i do those moves that do diagonal to up? I turned the game on to test this. I cant just press down and up to do the move. Has to be diag-down-right to up without accidentally hitting anything in between

The zangief thing doesn't work either

This is in SSIV btw

Jay?

[Zanchief]

You still need the right amount of presses. Example you can't do a fireball by doing down forward. You need to press down down forward or down forward forward.

Also, for Zangief, you only need to do and half circle with an up. So forward, down, back, up (with diagonals or repeated directions). I messed up the direction before. It starts forward and goes back. Maybe its only SFII. I haven't played much of the others.

I defer to Jay on this though.

[Drem]

Right, but the move is southeast to north. No circling involved. Its a diagonal then up, nothing between. Pressing down up or right up doesnt work. I can only do it on arcade sticks. If all this is true then my mind is blown. If this is like SS2 on super nintendo, i'd be more inclined to believe it

What say Jay?

[10sun]

Dunno. I love playing roguelikes with unlockables.
Examples: Chance of Rain, Faster Than Light, Rogue Legacy, & Convoy.
To each there own.

[Zanchief]

Come to think about it, I might be thinking of another game. I remember having a conversation with my brother about it.

The Zangief thing is true though. Only need to do a half circle then up. No need to do a full circle as most people think.

[Zanchief]

I just did something in Dark Souls I'd never done before (Cut Black Dragon Kalameet's tail). Hard games are fun!

[Jay]

They describe them that way, but the game does not require diagonals.

Example. Zangief 360 pile-driver can be done by doing Back, Back Down, Down, Forward, Forward, Up. It's just the way the game is made. The diagonal just substitutes for one or the other.

No way. I've never heard anything like this before. Can you prove this? Are you referring to some particular version of the game? They make special controllers for these games specifically to press diagonals. I didnt search deep but i found nothing that says diagonals dont exist. And how would i do those moves that do diagonal to up? I turned the game on to test this. I cant just press down and up to do the move. Has to be diag-down-right to up without accidentally hitting anything in between

The zangief thing doesn't work either

This is in SSIV btw

Jay?

Zan is basically correct in it that SFIV has what's called "shortcut" commands. How it works is, the shoryuken for example, is supposed to be done with F(orward), D(own), DF + Punch. What SFIV did was it took away the specific distinctions of what exactly constitutes a F or a D so as long as your motion goes in that direction anyway, it counts. A DF, for example, will count as a F or a D, so what that translates to is you can do a shoryuken now by pressing DF, DF + P or by doing it the traditional way and both will register a shoryuken. With the 360 Zangief moves, rather than do a full 360, you can do more of a "220", or just do a half circle and as long as the final part of the motion is pointing somewhere that counts as UP, whether it's UR, UL or straight UP then it will register.

All in all it can make the game very easy or actually cause problems due to overlapping commands for moves. Shortcut commands are often used more as parts of combos (makes it easier to be able to decrease your stick movement mid combo) rather than as a means of making moves easier.

[Jay]

One of the consultants for the SFIV series, Seth Killian, actually moved on to work for a company called Radiant Games and they developed a really fucking good and fun fighting game called Rising Thunder. All the special moves are assigned to a button so there's no complicated motions to execute moves but it might take a little bit of practice to get certain combos together. Also, free to play and has great netcode.

The idea behind this game was that fighting games DO NOT appeal to casual players and more often than not they end up with a similar opinion to Drem's where the game is hard without starting with a stupid amount of practice. The real meat of fighting games comes after you've learned complex moves and combos and begin to play chess with your opponent but, aside from fighting game enthusiasts like myself, who the hell wants to sit through 3-6 months of painful and disappointing practices and failures before finally being able to meta with your opponents? Lots of seriously gifted strategists out there put Street Fighter down because they didn't want to practice how to 4 hit combo into a shoryuken and that's sad.

If you have a mild interest in fighting games but hate the execution requirements they come with, give Rising Thunder a shot.

[Drem]

Yeah I've never been able to do combos. Ever. I don't know how I've made it this many years with that game around and never heard any of this from anyone before. My mind is blown. I wonder what part of my childhood will be ruined next. Hahahahahahahah

I must've been so bad because I was actually trying to do what the move guide in the start menu said, and that would work <%50 of the time. Move shortcuts. Fuck

Touche, Zanchief

[Zanchief]

I used to do them the old way when I used to play ungodly amounts of street fighter 2 on the SNES. It wasn't until years later that I found out the trick.

The odd thing about street fight II (For SNES at least) is that I always found certain moves that had the same motion to require different timing. A hadouken (sp?) always required different timing then say a yoga fire. Why when it's the same motion?

[Jay]

I don't know if there's a different timing persay because maybe I found a "sweet spot" in which my timing for the hadouken or the yoga fire was the same for me. I have heard other people say the same thing though Zan.

[brinstar]

The real meat of fighting games comes after you've learned complex moves and combos and begin to play chess with your opponent

this is why my dudebros and i could sit in my apt and play super smash bros melee for 6 hours straight, because everything was 4-way chess all the time. you had all the strategy and feints/bluffs/fencing/movesets of 1v1 but with the added chaos of two more actors - some players couldn't handle the added chaos and just sorta flailed, but if you could rise above and see all three opponents and know their styles you could ride that wave and control the entire flow of battle

as for hard games in general, i don't understand what you're whining about. some games are hard because the mechanics are shitty (and that's a fair complaint) but some games are just challenging and make you work for interesting plot twists or whatever other cool rewards. sorry you can't hack it, maybe just stick to punchtimes

[Jay]

The real meat of fighting games comes after you've learned complex moves and combos and begin to play chess with your opponent

this is why my dudebros and i could sit in my apt and play super smash bros melee for 6 hours straight, because everything was 4-way chess all the time. you had all the strategy and feints/bluffs/fencing/movesets of 1v1 but with the added chaos of two more actors - some players couldn't handle the added chaos and just sorta flailed, but if you could rise above and see all three opponents and know their styles you could ride that wave and control the entire flow of battle

as for hard games in general, i don't understand what you're whining about. some games are hard because the mechanics are shitty (and that's a fair complaint) but some games are just challenging and make you work for interesting plot twists or whatever other cool rewards. sorry you can't hack it, maybe just stick to punchtimes

Bro why so mean? LOL

I dunno honestly. I'm not complaining. I have a lot of games to play. I'm just saying I used to target games like Dark Souls and now I'm like "Sick game but NOPE!"

[Tossica]

If it's not punishingly hard, I lose interest quick. I don't like SF and games that require multiple button combinations. Virtua Fighter and Soul Caliber are my favorite in the last 20 years or so. Before that it was Karate Champ!