Trial begins of lesbian pastor in Washington

[Tossica]

I read some theories and now I have my own.

Jesus Says: "My god, My god, why hast thou forsaken me?" because he honestly believed he was the son of god up til that moment. He realized he was fucked, he was going to die and there was not a damn thing he could do about it. Maybe he expected "God" to come swoop down from the heavens and carry him away. When it became obvious that was not going to happen, he was PISSED that his father could watch him suffer like that. At that point he started to consider that maybe, just maybe, he was just a regular man, born to regular parents just like the assholes that were torturing him.

My theory.

[Eviljonte]

Mindia you are a sweet kid!

Forgive me for hijacking, I am going to assume that you are pro death penalty and antiabortionist. You would argue this by the old eye for an eye thing and then say thou shalt not kill! Does that add up? Who should you not kill?

I´m just saying to much anger and hate can only bring us down, be kind and gentle and thou shalt not fear!

[Langston]

Thon the Council of Nicea (I'm assuming that's what you're alluding to) did take the disparate communities of the budding Catholic faith and try to bring them together under a single creed (even named after the Council - The Nicean Creed) which was an adaptation of the Apostle's Creed which pre-existed the Council completely and which spoke directly to the existence and faith in the Trinity.

The Old Testament AND the New both directly speak to the existence of all three Persons of the Trinity... it was not a new concept "created" four centuries after Christ.

As far as the Holy Roman Empire goes - it was corrupt. I don't think anyone will argue that fact... the purchasing of pardons and the Inquisition are good examples of this. However - these facts don't change the fact that the common church-going Christian of the age had a faith and a belief that was based in Biblical terms and followed a Creed established long before the Empire, too.

Edit: Yes I know the Inquisition wasn't a HRE movement... I should have said that there are examples of how the Christian (and in this case specifically the Catholic) faith has been used with poor discretion and selfishness.

[brinstar]

i want to read a post by mindia that says "no, there is not a sentence printed in the bible containing specific comments about homosexuality that is attributed to the name Jesus."

We knew what you were saying Brin, but we chose to enlighten you and move forward. You won't find a quote in the New Testament where in the red text you will see the words "homosexuality = sexual immorality." Jesus did mention "sexual immorality" in the New Testament, and "sexual immorality" is clearly defined in the Old Testament.

the only way you enlightened me is that i learned that you can't give a straight answer to a simple question. as stated in a previous thread, i was raised a lutheran and i knew about plenty of examples in the old testament where god condemned homosex, as well as examples in the new testament where jesus condemned sexual immorality. all i wanted to know is whether jesus (in a "words printed on paper" sense, not a "jesus=god=holy spirit so yea he sed it in teh old testament d00d" sense) commented specifically on homosexuality. it's taken me four pages to even get half of an answer out of you, don't make me fight through another four for the other half.

_________________________________________

so what you're saying is "no, there is not a sentence printed in the bible containing specific comments about homosexuality that is attributed to the name Jesus."

is that what you're saying?

YES/NO ANSWER PLEASE JUST A YES OR A NO THAT'S ALL I WANT

[Langston]

If you're asking if the "man" named Jesus specifically stated those words and were they quoted in the Bible... the answer is no.

Up about a page or two...

[Narrock]

I JUST SAID NO, YOU TARD!

Here let me quote myself:

Mindia sez: You won't find a quote in the New Testament where in the red text you will see the words "homosexuality = sexual immorality."

Thou glasses art besmudged. or something.

[Langston]

You can lead a moron to truth, but you can't make him read.

[brinstar]

so what you're saying is no, there is not a sentence printed in the bible containing specific comments about homosexuality that is attributed to the name Jesus?

You won't find a quote in the New Testament where in the red text you will see the words "homosexuality = sexual immorality

STRAIGHT FUCKING ANSWER PLEASE

[Spacewoman Spiff]

Um... I *really* hate to defend Mindia here... but red text = Jesus, as any non mouthbreather knows.

He did give you a straight answer.

[Eviljonte]

Looking at the history of it all it is easily enough explained. "Following Christ" was the working class religion and some say thats why it became Romes official religion in less then 70 years. Adult males, prior to that would use any manchild for some sweet lovin´ and most workingpeople thought that was wrong but they had little or no choice. Hell, they would fight or be eaten in the arena for complaing about the quality of food.

Hence, thou shalt not covet another mans(boys) ass.

The bible says nothing about lesbians (the bible also says nothing about extinct spieces), in fact, the bible says nothing about a lot of things, which to me means you have to think for youself.

Again Mindia I urge you, prove your worth. Support this pastor, she will not gay your life up!

[brinstar]

yes i'm aware of that

here mindia, quote this:

is there anywhere in the bible that comments about homosexuality are directly attributed to the name Jesus?

and add the word "no" and then i will post "ok" and never post again in this thread

edit:

[Thon]

Thon the Council of Nicea (I'm assuming that's what you're alluding to) did take the disparate communities of the budding Catholic faith and try to bring them together under a single creed (even named after the Council - The Nicean Creed) which was an adaptation of the Apostle's Creed which pre-existed the Council completely and which spoke directly to the existence and faith in the Trinity.

of course the notion of the trinity pre-dated the council of nicea. the whole point of that council was to bring together all the different view's on christianity and hammer out a unified version for the empire. this included those who believed in the trinity, and those who did not.

in the end the emperor had the final word, and made sure christianity was molded into something that could serve him and the empire.

As far as the Holy Roman Empire goes - it was corrupt. I don't think anyone will argue that fact... the purchasing of pardons and the Inquisition are good examples of this. However - these facts don't change the fact that the common church-going Christian of the age had a faith and a belief that was based in Biblical terms and followed a Creed established long before the Empire, too.

time for a history lesson. i'm not talking about the 'holy roman empire', which was neither holy, roman, or much of an empire. i was talking about the roman empire, recently reunified under constantine. the 'holy roman empire' sprung up in the west over a half millenia after the council of nicea.

[Narrock]

Eviljonte sez:

The bible says nothing about lesbians

Let's take a look at what it says in Romans 1:25-27 (NIV) "They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

[brinstar]

mindia, quote this:

is there anywhere in the bible that comments about homosexuality are directly attributed to the name Jesus?

and add the word "no" and then i will post "ok" and never post again in this thread

[Langston]

My error Thon - I interpreted what you said incorrectly.

However, here again, Constantine's decision to bring Christianity into a "state religion" did not alter the core tenets of the faith nor did he alter the basic beliefs. He used the religion for his and the Empire's own ends - but even Constantine couldn't change the "creed".

During this period of time there were all forms of religions - some were combined hybrid versions of Christianity and the "old" polytheistic Roman and Greek religions... these were not religions founded on the Bible - but were formed from oral legend and "modern" texts that could be molded into a belief system that was familiar and comfortable to the people of the day.

The flavor of Christianity that was formed by the Council of Nicea was in line with the "real" teachings of the accepted Biblical texts as can be seen by comparing the findings and declarations of the Council with any Bible available to you today.

I don't argue or deny the corruption that existed - nor the misuse of the religion and the followers - my point is only that the "herd" wasn't corrupt in their beliefs - only the leaders. The Faith held by the followers of the church shouldn't be judged by the actions of the Emperor.

[Narrock]

yes i'm aware of that

here mindia, quote this:

is there anywhere in the bible that comments about homosexuality are directly attributed to the name Jesus?

and add the word "no" and then i will post "ok" and never post again in this thread

edit:

Brin, I don't want you to not ever post in this thread again. I like you, even though you're a bit harsh at times. To answer your question... Jesus said those who practice sexual immorality will not see the kingdom of heaven. It says that homosexuality is a sexual immoral act in the Old Testament. But again, for like the 6th time posted in this thread alone... NO, Jesus did not say, in the New Testament, that homosexuality was immoral. He said it in the Old Testament.

[Langston]

Brinstar - both Mindia and I answered your question. We then both quoted ourselves to you in additional replies. At this point you've become a broken record harping on something that was a non-issue two pages ago. Move on please.

[brinstar]

PS keep talking about that stuff ugzugz, i like reading about it (seriously)

what do you gnow about Gnostics? (not Agnostics lol)

edit: mindia can't answer my question without rewording it. i don't know what he's afraid of, because it certainly wouldn't change anything if he just answered me. i don't have any agenda or bone to pick, i just wanted to know. i literally had no motivation other than curiosity when i originally asked that question. as the thread evolved, however, my point became to see if mindia could actually answer a simple question without twisting it around to say something else-- and so far the answer to that is no. if he answered my question without rewording it, i'd simply post "ok" and take my leave of this thread. i realize it's hard to believe that, but it's true. btw, i thank YOU for actually replying with a real answer-- i just find it both sad and amusing that mindia is just too proud to answer my question in my words even knowing there'd be no consequences.

[Narrock]

He's just messin with us, Ug. Nobody can be that comprehension-challenged... not even tuggan.

[Narrock]

Gnosticism is an ancient form of alternative Christianity which competed with the Catholic Church for the first 350 years of Christian history.

[Scoota McGee]

crap crap crap... Mindia is going to level to "Gubbin" before me.

[Narrock]

Most people nowadays probably never heard of it, because the Church wiped it out as soon as Roman persecution ended, and the gnostic scriptures were not included in the "Bible." They were instead buried in a jar in the Egyptian desert, where they remained hidden until 1945. It was then that the ghost of Joseph Smith unearthed the jar and... oh nm.

[Langston]

I'll continue to discuss it as long as it is applicable to a topic in this thread. Thon made some salient points that I found intellectually stimulating (unlike 98% of the clap trap in this forum) and chose to reply. If you are truly interested in learning more on Constantine, I did a quick search on the web and here's a good link for you to read: Constantine

This IS a Catholic website so you can imagine there is some slant to it. However, there is a lot of very objective historical fact there as well. Caveat Emptor.

[brinstar]

NO, Jesus did not say, in the New Testament, that homosexuality was immoral.

ok

[Langston]

Gnosticism predated Christianity. It is hard to put a finger directly on a definition of what it was as there were many sects from diverse origins.... Egyptian, Babylonian, and later versions with flavors of Christianity.

The Christian leadership did consider gnostics to be heretics and their "religion" was targeted for censure.

Link to an abstract on Gnosticism on the same Catholic website.