What was the deciding factor?

[Tossica]

hahaha.

[Diekan]

Ugzugz,

My opinions pretty much match what I had posted in quotes, hence why I used that source. In addition, however, I will say that our personal freedoms and our individual anonymity are being eroded.

TeVo came out and said that the Janet Jackson breast flash was “rewound and rewatched” more than any other event. Ok, so how did they know that? Let’s talk about the On Star system, which can pin point you at any point in time on the road. Or, how about those nifty little coupon cards you use for “extra savings” at your local grocery store.

Just think for a moment about the things I’ve listed above. If you’re anything like the average American you probably have all the above conveniences, or at least some combination of. They know what you’re watching on TV, what you’re eating for dinner, where you’re at. That’s not to include what information they can get from your Internet usage.

You don’t have a problem with the government potentially knowing everything little thing about you?

So, not only do they know where you work, how much you make, what you majored in college, your eating habits, where you are, who you call, what sites you visit on the Internet, where you’re at… now they want the right to kick in your front door if you’re suspected of being a terrorist. Now, they want the right to take DNA samples without a warrant. And, it goes on.

This country is far less “free” that it was a few decades ago, and our freedoms are being reduced more and more with each new law they pass. Do you really think the Patriot Act is going to do anything to reduce the threat of terrorism? Seriously, do you not think the Patriot Act is anything but guise for the government to have more control over you and I?

You know, I don’t know what’s scarier. The fact the Patriot Act doesn’t scare the hell of most people, or the fact these idiots actually think it’s a good idea. The terrorists have won… they don’t have to commit another atrocity against us from this point forward. Once we’ve changed our way of life by granting the government the right to infringe on our personal liberties, they have won.

The irony here is that the GOP is supposed to represent smaller government, yet they are the one’s who are systematically removing your personal freedoms in the name of “national security” against events that we’ve been told we can’t really prevent in the first place.

[Kalac]

While I think a few of your points are on target and that the Patriot act is a bunch of crap that really needs to be rewritten or done away with completely.

But...

TeVo came out and said that the Janet Jackson breast flash was “rewound and rewatched” more than any other event. Ok, so how did they know that? Let’s talk about the North Star system, which can pin point you at any point in time on the road. Or, how about those nifty little coupon cards you use for “extra savings” at your local grocery store.

I'd have to say this is taking it a bit far. I mean do you have to use any of the "conveniences" you listed here? I just bought a new truck told them not to put the Onstar in it. I dont remember anyone telling me I must use the coupon card when I go to the store nor do I remember anyone telling me that I have to subscribe to TeVo either. I dont know, it may just be me, but I think you might be pushing it a bit to the extreme with those examples since they are basically your choice to use them or not.

[Langston]

Last I checked, the Government (queue Fugue in D Minor) does not own the Onstar or North Star companies. Nor does the Government (play music now) own TeVo. Lastly, I haven't noticed an "Owned and Operated by the US Government" on my local Kroger, Publix, or other grocery stores.

If you're making the assumption that because the information exists that there is a conspiracy in the leadership to use that information for Government purposes, then you're WAY gone, man... WAY gone. Lay off the sauce.

Frankly, if it IS true... I don't give a flying fuck if the government knows I bought a loaf of bread, some lunch meat, and a 12 pack of soda. Nor do I care that they know that I watched the History channel for 45 minutes last night. The concept of them tracking where I am driving is good and bad... good if I have an emergency, bad if they're doing it for other things.

For every NEGATIVE reason you can come up with for the companies or government to track such information, I can come up with a good reason. For example, how about customized coupons mailed to your home based on your purchasing preferences at the grocery store? How about the expansion of available programming more in line with what the majority of viewers have been watching - thus providing more choices in the genre that the viewers themselves have decided is most interesting to them. And the Onstar thing... being able to push a button on your mirror and knowing that immediately emergency services are being dispatched directly to my location gives me a feeling of comfort - not concern.

[Tossica]

I don't think Vonkaar's "Lyion being fellated by Finawin" GIF has been given enough respect.

That was classic.

[Phantomfist]

I seemed to have missed a lot of fun these last couple days. Time to play a little catch up!

Way to ignore the rest of my point, Durck, and jump on my disdain for inbred bigoted rednecks

Ah, a true bigot complaining about other bigots. I can only imagine the fun adjectives you and your buddies use when discussing women or blacks in the privacy of your tofu abodes.

Real classy...

Actually, before this Recession we're in that happened on Bush's watch, I made quite good money, thank you, and was just as liberal. Hell, it's not just me, go look at some of the statements from Warren Buffett, saying he thinks the tax breaks the rich get are unfair to the rest of the nation.

My speculation about the amendment is just that, but if you actually go look at history, and the rise of the fascista in Italy, and the nazis in Germany, there are some VERY clear parallels to what's happening in the US today. Go look. *shrug* Still, talk about that amendment wouldn't surprise me in the least. [b]There was talk about it during Reagan's 2nd term.[/b]

The recession "bomb" might have exploded at the very beginning of Bush's watch but it was activated and dropped on the country during Clinton's watch. That's an indisputable fact, which you know full-well to be true. But you've never allowed the truth to get in the way of your zealotry in the past, so why start now, eh?

I'm sure there will be talk of changing the Amendment beyond that posted on some extreme Right-wing sites. But so what?

Did it bother you that this same talk took place during the Clinton years? Apparantly not, since you conspiciously failed to mention his name along with that of Reagan's.

This must fall under the "do as I say, not as I do" philosophy you Lefties are so beholdedn to.

edit: Disliking stupid people is racist now, lyion? Er, OK.... And so is being afraid of the direction of the country is heading is also bad? Er, OK.... And that's the same as, say, Cheney telling people that if they vote for Kerry that it means they're going to get bombed by terrorists again? (which he DID do.)

And Kerry/Edwards claimed Bush was going to reinstate the ***DRAFT!!!*** if Bush is re-elected. And you intelligent Liberals bought that nonsense hook, line and sinker DESPITE the fact that it was a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, Charles Rangel (D-New York), that crafted and tried to pass the draft bill in the first place! What a brilliant voter base you have! You really showed us how you're the smartest of the smart!

And let's not forget Kerry's fear tactics when he claimed that Bush, by refusing to make congress extend the silly and cosmetic assault weapons ban, was aiding the TERRORISTS! As if any self-respecting terrorist is going to buy a legal assault weapon if they actually wanted to buy one.

I can state without question that the scare tactics used by both sides were disgusting and disheartening. Can you say the same?

Exactly my argument. It just pisses me off to no end that people in this country aren't upset about why this election was won, not who it was won by. :P

This election was won because John Kerry not only ran a horribly bad campaign, but is a horrible and bad candidate to boot. Even an escaped lobotomized lab chimp could have done better than Kerry.

Last time I checked, most Democrats were upset that they had to settle for Kerry as their 'man'.

My argument is now, and has ALWAYS been that it is unconstitutional, and against the very founding principles of the country to try and move those private religious beliefs into the realm of public policy. You may believe abortion is immoral. Others do not. What gives YOU the right to force your beliefs onto those other people by trying to have it banned? You don't believe in abortion, don't have one, or try and dissuade a female you know considering one on a personal level. No one is coming to your house and FORCING anyone to have abortions. Legislating a ban on them, however, *IS* interjecting religious beliefs into public life, and IS trampling on the rights of people who believe differently than you, because it's forcing people with different beliefs to conform to yours.

People's opposition doesn't come first and foremost from their religious beliefs. It comes from the FACT they believe that at some point, from conception to birth, the fetus becomes a human being. And since they believe it is a human life, do you really expect them to think it is OK to kill the most innocent of human lives? Do you?

Now, religion does quickly play a part because their belief that it IS wrong to kill an innocent human being IS based on their religious beliefs.

Let's look at the rest of your statement from a slightly different POV.

"You may believe Capital punishment is immoral. Others do not. What gives YOU the right to force your beliefs onto those other people by trying to have it banned? You don't believe in Capital punishment, don't commit a Capital offense, or try and convince a female or male you know from considering one on a personal level. No one is coming to your house and FORCING anyone to attend or participate an execution . Legislating a ban on them, however, *IS* interjecting religious beliefs into public life, and IS trampling on the rights of people who believe differently than you, because it's forcing people with different beliefs to conform to yours."

Since you love to use women in your abortion debates, Arlos, let's remove them from it and see how you do.

When the day comes that we have the technology to use artificial wombs to 'grow' human beings from fertilized eggs - oh and we will - at what point does that fetus become a human being? Or does it never become human as long as it stays in the artificial womb, only magically becoming human once it is removed at some point?

Please answer that question.

I don't retract the argument that MOST people in the country did NOT vote based on issues, and I heard far more of the "We're voting for Bush because he's a REAL man!" from the republican side (yes, that's real quote) On the Democrat side, I did hear an awful lot of "we're voting for Kerry because we hate Bush". That at least indicates SOME knowledge of his policies and the direction he's taking the country, at least enough to know you want no part of it.

I didn't hear a single person say anything remotely close to "We're voting for Bush because he's a REAL man!" Then again, I do live in Madison.

However, all I did hear from the Left was "we're voting for Kerry because we hate Bush". I never met a single Lefty who didn't vote for Kerry because of that. Nor do I know of any on this board who voted for Kerry because they like what he stands for.

Here's a quick and easy test! Name me one of the major bills Kerry authored or even co-authored during his nearly 2 decades in the Senate. Not 10 bills. Not even 4 or 5. Just 1.

Oh yeah, don't use Google. Let's see how knowledgable you are on your guy.

Taxx you haven't done much more than "Bush is an idiot" pretty much your entire tenure in CA. You just recently poked your head into CA and still have no idea what's going on. Keep in rants and flames where you belong, even there you have somewhat of a purpose. Here you're just worthless.

You chime in every now and again saying everyone is a biased jackass or some such, and then spout your anti bush hate.

No bias there

Listen, since R&F has all but died, Taxx has to take his trolling somewhere. So he comes to CA.

Taxx has never posted what he actually thinks about something; any of his real beliefs or thoughts. He only has posted things to piss people off.

I guess the sad thing is - if you care enough to call it sad - is that one day Taxx might really post something he truly believes in and no one will believe it since they will 'know' he's just trolling.

But I really don't think Taxx cares one way or another, so neither should you. And if he does care, who cares?

Should we bring up the paradox of those that are pro death penalty, and Anti Abortion Choice, or vice versa?

I think it reveals the true nature of Muricans.

There is no real paradox on the Right beyond the silly "Pro-Life" tag, unless you consider serial killers and babies as apples & apples.

On the Left, though, "SAVE THOSE POOR, HELPLESS KILLERS AND RAPISTS, BUT DESTROY ***MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!*** THE UNBORN EVIL WITH IMPUNITY!!!" does pose quite the quandary.

Fun stuff!

TeVo came out and said that the Janet Jackson breast flash was “rewound and rewatched” more than any other event. Ok, so how did they know that? Let’s talk about the On Star system, which can pin point you at any point in time on the road. Or, how about those nifty little coupon cards you use for “extra savings” at your local grocery store.

Just think for a moment about the things I’ve listed above. If you’re anything like the average American you probably have all the above conveniences, or at least some combination of. They know what you’re watching on TV, what you’re eating for dinner, where you’re at. That’s not to include what information they can get from your Internet usage.

To say that "average American" has TeVo or OnStar is a bit of an exageration.

However, there's no question that people and their spending habits are tracked more than ever before and it's only going to get worse. You never mentioned how most of the car companies are 'quietly' inserting "black boxes" into their new line of automobiles.

Say you have a car accident and you claim you weren't speeding. That little "black box" will tell the police as well as your insurance agent if you were in fact speeding. Many car rental places are already using these and GPS systems to keep tabs on their cars, especially the ones stolen or driven out of state against the rental policy.

Hello, Big Brother!

I don't think Vonkaar's "Lyion being fellated by Finawin" GIF has been given enough respect.

That was classic.

My brilliance is often ignored as well. I feel his pain.



CLIFF NOTE ADDITION FOR TAXX: Blah blah blah Taxx is a troll blah blah blah...

[Langston]

CLIFF NOTE ADDITION FOR TAXX: Blah blah blah

Thanks. Saved me a lot of time.