More evolutionary lies.

[Tikker]

What I love about you evolutionist wackos is how you respond to anyone who questions any aspect of evolution. You grit your teeth, clench your fists and mightily declare all non-true believers to be unsightly heretics! Sound familiar?

There's a big difference between questioning the specifics (or even the general way) a scientific theory works, and poo-pooing evidence because it doesn't fit in with how your religion taught you things worked

[Wrath Child]

What I love about you evolutionist wackos is how you respond to anyone who questions any aspect of evolution. You grit your teeth, clench your fists and mightily declare all non-true believers to be unsightly heretics! Sound familiar?

There's a big difference between questioning the specifics (or even the general way) a scientific theory works, and poo-pooing evidence because it doesn't fit in with how your religion taught you things worked

There you go again! Right away, anyone who isn't an evolution lemming MUST be a religious lemming instead! Like Lyion, I don't think I've even really mentioned religion of any kind as a basis for my beliefs and doubts concerning how we arrived at this point in time. Yet you just froth at the mouth as you wildly swing your Bible Thumper Bat at anyone who disagrees with you.

[Wrath Child]

Oh, and don't forget, that according to the strict creationists, Earth was created on October 27th, Sunday, at 9am in 4004 BC.

Never mind the fact that we have buildings on Malta that are older, and just ignore the cave paintings that are 20,000 years old, or all the evidence of habitation in the americas going back about 13,000 years. We evolutionists are making all that up!

-Arlos

Wiccans commenting on anyone elses religious beliefs is quite a riot. Shouldn't you be out worshipping a toad stool or casting a spell on someone like Mindia instead of being slouched over in front of the modern day boob tube?

[Rust]

Oh, and don't forget, that according to the strict creationists, Earth was created on October 27th, Sunday, at 9am in 4004 BC.

Never mind the fact that we have buildings on Malta that are older, and just ignore the cave paintings that are 20,000 years old, or all the evidence of habitation in the americas going back about 13,000 years. We evolutionists are making all that up!

-Arlos

Wiccans commenting on anyone elses religious beliefs is quite a riot. Shouldn't you be out worshipping a toad stool or casting a spell on someone like Mindia instead of being slouched over in front of the modern day boob tube?

Nice pointless ad hominem. Arlos' pointing out that some people's irrational beliefs are, in fact, irrational beliefs seems to pose a threat to you?

Anyone who claims the Earth was created in 4004 BC is either ignorant or a fool. It's that simple. They're just being irrational and ignoring the physical evidence. I can't help that fact.

--R.

[Tikker]

What I love about you evolutionist wackos is how you respond to anyone who questions any aspect of evolution. You grit your teeth, clench your fists and mightily declare all non-true believers to be unsightly heretics! Sound familiar?

There's a big difference between questioning the specifics (or even the general way) a scientific theory works, and poo-pooing evidence because it doesn't fit in with how your religion taught you things worked

There you go again! Right away, anyone who isn't an evolution lemming MUST be a religious lemming instead! Like Lyion, I don't think I've even really mentioned religion of any kind as a basis for my beliefs and doubts concerning how we arrived at this point in time. Yet you just froth at the mouth as you wildly swing your Bible Thumper Bat at anyone who disagrees with you.

Are you really that retarded?

No where have I specifically mentioned you, or anyone else in the statement I made

We can reverse it, and it will mean exactly the same thing, watch:

There's a big difference between questioning the specifics (or even the general way) a religion works, and poo-pooing religion because it doesn't fit in with how your sciences/diff't religion taught you things worked

I don't personally believe in God, but if you're willing to show me evidence of a god, we can talk about it

[Markarado]

I believe what Rust was saying is that ancient civilizations misinterpreted the Bible and came to the belief that the world was flat. He's not saying that's what the Bible says.

Also, where did you get the idea that Christians don't believe in dinosaurs? I certainly do. I beleive they still exist, and your science friends have evidence of that. Sightings and such.... bones being uncovered of 100 ton dinosaurs that died not to long ago.

[Jimmy Durante]

Mokele-mbembe?

[Eziekial]

Is that the big fish with lots of teeth?

[Arlos]

Wiccans commenting on anyone elses religious beliefs is quite a riot. Shouldn't you be out worshipping a toad stool or casting a spell on someone like Mindia instead of being slouched over in front of the modern day boob tube?

Funny, for all the slamming by Lyion, etc. about how it's us liberals who are intolerant of religion, who's the one who's stooped to insulting someone's faith?

We liberals haven't insulted people's faiths, all we've said is that faith is not science, and attempting to use religious belief in place of science while CALLING it science is a complete fallacy. Some religious folks (Ganzo, say) understand that, while others apparently do not.

If you're a strict creationist, you believe the Earth began in 4004 BC. Unfortunately, there is MOUNTAINS of evidence that this is not the case. Just look at the ancient Mesopotamian writings we have, from the 2000-3000s BC, presumably the time at which the Flood would have occured (since Noah had to have been born and live to several hundred years old to fit the bible, if you're reading strictly), plus writings from the Old Kingdom in Egypt, and funny, not one of them mention the respective kingdoms having been several hundred feet underwater for weeks.

-Arlos

[Ganzo]

We liberals haven't insulted people's faiths, all we've said is that faith is not science,

Arlos, do i realy need to make a laundry list of quotes from this thread that says otherwise

[Markarado]

Where the hell do you get the idea that us 'strict creationists' MUST believe the world started 4004 B.C.? That's bogus. Some might, but I guarantee you that most don't believe it's possible to know the exact date. I sure as hell don't.

[Rust]

I believe what Rust was saying is that ancient civilizations misinterpreted the Bible and came to the belief that the world was flat. He's not saying that's what the Bible says.

Also, where did you get the idea that Christians don't believe in dinosaurs? I certainly do. I beleive they still exist, and your science friends have evidence of that. Sightings and such.... bones being uncovered of 100 ton dinosaurs that died not to long ago.

Source please? All dinosaurs died out at the end of the Cretaceous. With the possible exception of a few fossils in the Hell Creek formation that are likely reworked, no dinosaur fossils have been found above the KT boundary.

If anyone had found real dinosaur fossils that postdated the Cretaceous, he'd have made the cover of Science *and* Nature.

And no, based on what I've seen about Egyptian and Babylonian cosmology, and comments on the Bible, the people who wrote the Bible probably believed the Earth was flat, and probably geocentric to boot.

Like I said, it's not a science text.

--R.

[Rust]

Where the hell do you get the idea that us 'strict creationists' MUST believe the world started 4004 B.C.? That's bogus. Some might, but I guarantee you that most don't believe it's possible to know the exact date. I sure as hell don't.

I agree - there are Young Earth Creationists (YECs) like Duane Gish, Old Earth Creationists (OECs) like Hugh Ross, Day-Age Creationists, Gap Creationists, and so on. It's not a monolithic set of beliefs - you should see some of the catfights between the YECs and OECs.

Again, if you believe God created the Earth in 4004BC or 4.5 billion years ago, or created the Big Bang, that's your right, and I respect that. Since I have no evidence to say otherwise, I admit freely you may be right - but however the Earth was created, it LOOKS some 4.5 billion years old, and life LOOKS like it's been here for billions of years based on fossils. And those timelines have implications for anyone making claims about how and when the planet formed.

If God did it, He could make it look 4.5 billion years old, but that sort of poses some basic questions of theology that make it a problem for most Christian groups, since it means God basically set out to deceive people (I've posted the quote from the Bible telling us to 'study the Earth', before...), which runs against most schools of theology. But if you think God indeed did just that, I can't argue with you. 'God did it' is an unanswerable claim; not a very useful one for science, but it's certainly possible.

If on the other hand you want to claim God did it usnig only naturalistic processes (as Scientific Creationists like to claim) then you have to come up with concrete evidence. And I'm sorry, but it was a bunch of devout Anglican geologists (Sedgewick, Buckland, etc.) in the 18th century who first showed that the Flood simply didn't happen like it claims in the Bible. Geologists have known for 2 centuries that there's simply no supporting evidence. But Sci Cre's keep claiming it happened, without claiming God somehow magicked away all the evidence.

--R.

[Ganzo]

And no, based on what I've seen about Egyptian and Babylonian cosmology, and comments on the Bible, the people who wrote the Bible probably believed the Earth was flat, and probably geocentric to boot.

--R.

Source it please, and not link to wacko website this time

[Ganzo]

If God did it, He could make it look 4.5 billion years old, but that sort of poses some basic questions of theology that make it a problem for most Christian groups, since it means God basically set out to deceive people (I've posted the quote from the Bible telling us to 'study the Earth', before...), which runs against most schools of theology.
--R.

Or it could be that instead of seting out to deceive anyone, God gave free will. If you had concrete evidence it would not be faith, and everyone would be forced to believe. Perhaps God wants you to believe without proof, unconditionaly

[Tae-Bo]

huuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUURRRRRRRRR

[Narrock]

Ganzo wrote:

Or it could be that instead of seting out to deceive anyone, God gave free will. If you had concrete evidence it would not be faith, and everyone would be forced to believe. Perhaps God wants you to believe without proof, unconditionaly

[Tikker]

If God did it, He could make it look 4.5 billion years old, but that sort of poses some basic questions of theology that make it a problem for most Christian groups, since it means God basically set out to deceive people (I've posted the quote from the Bible telling us to 'study the Earth', before...), which runs against most schools of theology.
--R.

Or it could be that instead of seting out to deceive anyone, God gave free will. If you had concrete evidence it would not be faith, and everyone would be forced to believe. Perhaps God wants you to believe without proof, unconditionaly

what's that?

I thought you didn't answer scientific questions with "god did it?"

And Ganzo, let's go at this from a different angle

You don't want people questioning your faith, but how would you convince someone that is a non believer?

You can't just say you believe it, and expect them to believe it
You have to show them why you believe (ie offer up some sort of proof )
Why? I'm not recruiting people into my club here



Take a step back, and let's try this again ganzo



Person_A walks up and says, " TIkker and Ganzo, how did man get here?"


TIkker answers, "Evolution, here's the theory of how evolution works, there's some holes,blah blah blah, etc etc, but the theory fits the evidence the best, etc etc"

Ganzo answers, "god did it"


Person_A asks, "How do you know that?

Ganzo answers, "because I have faith"

Person_A says, "but why?"

Ganzo answers, "because I have faith"

Person_A says, "but why do you have faith"

Ganzo answers, "because I do, and I don't have to explain to you why, it's not my job to prove the existence to god to you. you either have faith, or you don't"



and that's how every "debate" goes


replace ganzo with lyion and it's the same thing, except lyion would respond "I believe in god.....as does anyone with half a brain. not that I'm trying to be insulting, as I'm a fair minded christian..... you unbelieving moron"
you forgot to mention 10 other people(rust, zanchief, mofish, mappatize, etc) adding "Anyone who does not think like us is idiot who worships boogyman in the sky" "I will not hear what you just said but instead will tell you how right i am and call you moron again"

[Lyion]

Funny, I thought this was a site where people could discuss various things. I'll be sure to tell people to ONLY discuss things in the proper context. My bad.

And take a look at Rusts post, does that look like a science one? As usual, it was one of the two of you who brought up the theological connotations and then say all we ever talk about is JHVH.

People have Faith in certain things, whether it be religion or science, it doesn't really matter. Peoples lives would be a lot simpler if they didn't seem so 'offended' by things.

Anyways, if you want no holds barred Evolution or Theology debates, take them to Everything Else. We've had enough nastiness here, methinks.

[Tikker]

who's being nasty?


just quit pretending that you don't fall back on your faith for certain answers

[Jimmy Durante]

Is that the big fish with lots of teeth?

Not quite:
http://www.mokelembembe.com/

Hope it's real so I can get that Bronto Burger I've always wanted.

[Ganzo]

If God did it, He could make it look 4.5 billion years old, but that sort of poses some basic questions of theology that make it a problem for most Christian groups, since it means God basically set out to deceive people (I've posted the quote from the Bible telling us to 'study the Earth', before...), which runs against most schools of theology.
--R.

Or it could be that instead of seting out to deceive anyone, God gave free will. If you had concrete evidence it would not be faith, and everyone would be forced to believe. Perhaps God wants you to believe without proof, unconditionaly

what's that?

I thought you didn't answer scientific questions with "god did it?"

You are seriously calling this question "scientific"?

[alezrik]

just curious but did Noah put dinosaurs on that boat too or what's the deal with them?

For creationists were they co-existing with humans?

Does the theory of evolution scare the bible believers because it would prove that man wasn't always the center of the universe, let alone the "ruler" of this world.

[Ganzo]

why not just ask :if God is almighty, can God make rock so heavy that he cannot lift it

i would answer your question but you do not care for answer

[Gidan]

If God did it, He could make it look 4.5 billion years old, but that sort of poses some basic questions of theology that make it a problem for most Christian groups, since it means God basically set out to deceive people (I've posted the quote from the Bible telling us to 'study the Earth', before...), which runs against most schools of theology.
--R.

Or it could be that instead of seting out to deceive anyone, God gave free will. If you had concrete evidence it would not be faith, and everyone would be forced to believe. Perhaps God wants you to believe without proof, unconditionaly

This is the exact reasoning that makes arguing against creation impossible. A creationist can answer every single question with "That was gods plan". You can show hard scientific proof of macro evolution and creationist can still come back and say "God put that evidence there to test you".

People who truely with all their heart beleive in creation can never truely accept evolution becasue they believe that god created man and anything science shows against it is either flat out wrong or was put there by god to test our faith in him.