NFL Preseasont talk

[Lyion]

It's that time.. Fooooootball.

Who will suck? Who will sign Vick? What quality free agents are left? What team will be the sleeper, like Zona was last year?

I think the SB this year will be San Diego vs Chicago! San Dog winning.

[vonkaar]

I too think SD will have a great year. Sproles just got the big money... Norv will figure out a way to play them both and that will give opponents some serious problems. They go all the way.

I'm saying 8-8 for Dallas... as Romo will play his usual shitty-self in December.

[Naethyn]

Minnesota needs to pick up Vick

[Lyion]

I too think SD will have a great year. Sproles just got the big money... Norv will figure out a way to play them both and that will give opponents some serious problems. They go all the way.

I'm saying 8-8 for Dallas... as Romo will play his usual shitty-self in December.

Oddly enough, if Romo goes down and Kitna steps in, I think Dallas will do better. Kitna is calm, has a good arm, and knows his limitations.

The NFC West is loaded with newbee coaches and I think San Diego should easily win it. I think New Englands D is old, and Indy is in transition after Dungy leaving. Pitt is the biggest challenge, and I think it'll depend if they play there or at Qualcomm. I think Pitt will have a much rougher go playing Cinci and Baltimore then San Diego will playing the Chiefs, Raiders, or Broncs.

[Spazz]

I predict the lions will suck .

[Jay]

Cutler...please don't suck. PLEASE don't suck.

[Drem]

I predict the lions will suck .

i'm starting to wonder if they've ever not sucked

[Harrison]

Barry Sanders

[Jay]

Barry Sanders

Barry was incredible, but they still sucked even with Barry.

[vonkaar]

Oh, if Barry could have played for 'any' other team... what a career...

The DEEP NFC playoffs seems so hard to predict... I mean, who saw Arizona going all the way last year? Chicago really could make some noise, but I'm not a fan so I won't give them any pre-season props. As for divisional champs, I think that this is safe:

I'll say:
NFC North - Chicago
NFC East - NYG
NFC South - Carolina.
NFC West - Arizona


AFC North - Pittsburgh. I'd love to say Baltimore, but... no Rex Ryan
AFC East - The New fucking England fucking Patriots. Fuck they.
AFC South - Houston . Indy is going to miss Marvin H. / Tony D. Plus, I had to have 1 wtf pick.
AFC West - Chargers!

[Reynaldo]

NFC North - Vikings if they go with Sage over Tavaris
NFC East - Eagles
NFC South - Falcons for the trendy pick
NFC West - Seattle - no one else really made any improvements and Warner isn't going to stay healthy this year.
Wild Cards - Giants, Saints


AFC North - Pittsburgh (F Pittsburgh)
AFC East - Pats - going to put up 35+ a game again this year
AFC South - Houston - I'm on board with that pick if Schaub/Slaton stay healthy.
AFC West - Chargers, but they better do it this year. I really like the direction the Chiefs are going but they're still a year or 2 away
Wild Cards - Colts, Titans

[Lyion]

Interesting. here are my picks:

NFC North - Chicago
NFC East - Philly
NFC South - Saints
NFC West - San Fran


AFC North - Cinci
AFC East - New England
AFC South - Tenn
AFC West - Chargers

The NFC is certainly a crapshot. The AFC is a bit more settles, but I think Cinci is my sleeper team. Palmer is back, Coles is an upgrade from TJ, and their D has been getting better and better. I think with Roethlisberg distracted and the Pitt D mostly over 30 types, they'll have a rough go.

I see San Fran under Singletary winning that division. With or without Crabtree.

I do think there are still some stellar Free Agents out there, like Derrick Brooks, Matt Jones, etc. I'll be interested to see how the preseason goes.

[Arlos]

I actually don't think SF will win the division. I'd love it if they did, obviously, but while I expect progress, I think 8-8 or 9-7 is more likely, which I don't think will be enough.

So, my predictions:

NFC East: Eagles (Close call, especially with their D coordinator dying, but I think they take it)
NFC North: Chicago. (Hey, a real QB for the first time in, like, ever.)
NFC South: Saints. (Maybe this year Bush finally does something on the field, instead of just doing Kim Kardashian...)
NFC West: Seahawks. (49ers aren't quite there yet, and the Cards not only have now a tougher schedule than last year, they have superbowl hangover too.)

AFC East: New England (Next!)
AFC North: Pittsburgh (Maybe losing a little, but they're still better than the rest of that division)
AFC South: Indy. (Yeah, they lost Harrison, but they still have Peyton, so....)
AFC West: Rai...*cough* No, I couldn't even force that out as a joke.... Chargers. (LT comes back strong this year. Unfortunately, they will fail in the playoffs because they still have Norv in charge)

-Arlos

[Phlegm]

Vick signed with the Eagles.

[Lyion]

Seattle has a tough schedule, and I think they'll miss Holmgren.

Eagles signed Vick. Big surprise there.

[Gypsiyee]

hope it blows up in their faces. won't be watching football this year, that makes me want to throw up.

[Drem]

Barry Sanders

Barry was incredible, but they still sucked even with Barry.

[Arlos]

Why, Gyps?

I mean, I'm as big an animal lover as anyone, believe me. But the guy has apparently been working really closely with the national Humane Society organization to try and get other people to stop with dogfighting. According to the Humane Society, he's helping them reach people they never would have reached before. He's also been working closely with a lot of pretty respected people to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow and avoids any negative influences.

So, he's served the time assigned to him in a court of law, is going to serve even more time in punishment from the NFL offices. He's lost literally tens or probably even hundreds of millions of dollars in lost contract and sponsorship money. So, the guy has been punished pretty thoroughly, and from all I've heard at least appears to be genuinely repentant, and, as I said, trying to work with one of the biggest pro-animal welfare organizations there is.... What more do you want from the man?

I'm not asking for him to be one of your favorite people, don't get me wrong, and what he did was utterly reprehensible and sickening, but there seems to have been some genuine change there, and he does seem to be working to make what amends he can.

-Arlos

[vonkaar]

So... Michael Vick kills a dog. Then loses his starting job and multi-million$$ contract, basically goes bankrupt, spends 2 years in jail... then rejoins the league as a backup and he's THE DEVIL.

Donte Stallworth kills a MAN while driving drunk, spends 4 weeks in jail... pays a fine... and gets suspended for a year from the NFL. KEEPS his starting job, multi-million$$ contract, personal fortune... and walks away with a barely tainted reputation.

Apparently... killing a dog is WAY worse than killing a human.

[Drem]

or ray lewis who killed two people and was exonerated

[Lyion]

He didn't kill a dog. He ran a large illegal dogfighting operation. You're forgetting about the illegal gambling portion, also. Killing someone is bad. Illegal sports gambling is akin to mortal sin in the bigs and NFL. Just ask Pete Rose about that.

Plus, Vick lied to Goodell and everyone involved multiple times.

Stallworth was wrong, but a guy ran out into a multiroad state highway he was driving on. Multiple witnesses tesitifed. He likely still would have killed the guy sober. He stopped, called 911, and manned up. Stallworth most certainly will be released by the Browns and is being suspended a year. The legal system has no bearing on the NFL and vice versa. I'd say Vick's crime was far worse, given the larger nature of it, the gambling, and the overt lying to many people.

Anyways, bringing up Stallworth is a red herring in discussing Vick.

[Drem]

Big whoop. If the NFL can ignore Ray Lewis helping to murder two people in a knife fight he probably started, they can surely overlook a dogfighting business. But noooo, gambling is baaaad. We should be telling kids to murder people they don't like and have their witnesses tell two different stories to the investigators and to the jury instead because then they can still get the SuperBowl MVP title. They'll just have to suffer the loss of a couple endorsements and a Disney World trip and they'll have to pay off the dude that took the fall for them when they get out of jail. I'm sure that's really tough for a multi-millionaire

[Jay]

Why, Gyps?

I mean, I'm as big an animal lover as anyone, believe me. But the guy has apparently been working really closely with the national Humane Society organization to try and get other people to stop with dogfighting. According to the Humane Society, he's helping them reach people they never would have reached before. He's also been working closely with a lot of pretty respected people to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow and avoids any negative influences.

So, he's served the time assigned to him in a court of law, is going to serve even more time in punishment from the NFL offices. He's lost literally tens or probably even hundreds of millions of dollars in lost contract and sponsorship money. So, the guy has been punished pretty thoroughly, and from all I've heard at least appears to be genuinely repentant, and, as I said, trying to work with one of the biggest pro-animal welfare organizations there is.... What more do you want from the man?

I'm not asking for him to be one of your favorite people, don't get me wrong, and what he did was utterly reprehensible and sickening, but there seems to have been some genuine change there, and he does seem to be working to make what amends he can.

-Arlos

On one hand, Vick's crimes, to me, are unforgivable. I think that him reaching out and helping the Humane Society is what he should be doing to atone for what he's done. I wouldn't pat him on the back for it. It's not like I expect to be praised when I pay debt that I incurred. That's just life. As far as genuine change? What evidence is there? All I see is a guy who had a multi million dollar contract do whatever the fuck people want to see him doing so that he can have that contract back. I won't comment on whether or not the guy has changed in light of all this because I honestly don't know, but it's not totally unbelievable for a guy to do some photo ops, a little pro bono work and put some volunteer time in to get his multi million dollar contract back. I'd do it even if I hated dogs for that kind of money.

Now, I'm happy he's doing this stuff. If dogs are being saved then that's awesome. As far as the NFL is concerned, all they have to worry about is whether they'll sell jerseys, tickets and gain advertising dollars with Vick representing their product. If he's good at football and fans can get behind him, they need to make a business decision, not a morality decision. If you enjoy football Gyps and you're boycotting it because of Michael Vick, that's your loss. Personally, and this is coming from a dog lover, I don't look at the social issues of the players. I just watch football. If you DO want to look at it from the social aspect, fine. I think there are less people like Michael Vick from the NFL than there are kind charitable people like, Warrick Dunn or LaDainian Tomlinson or many other players who help kids and support a lot of great causes. Boycotting the NFL over Michael Vick is like saying none of the good shit matters (even though it massively outweighs what Vick has done) and that Michael Vick and his actions are what decide whether you watch football or not. The best way to handle your displeasure with Michael Vick is to do it the way sports fans have always done it. If you see him at a game you boo the fuck out of him. You talk shit about him and you don't buy his jersey.

[Gypsiyee]

Why, Gyps?

I mean, I'm as big an animal lover as anyone, believe me. But the guy has apparently been working really closely with the national Humane Society organization to try and get other people to stop with dogfighting. According to the Humane Society, he's helping them reach people they never would have reached before. He's also been working closely with a lot of pretty respected people to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow and avoids any negative influences.

So, he's served the time assigned to him in a court of law, is going to serve even more time in punishment from the NFL offices. He's lost literally tens or probably even hundreds of millions of dollars in lost contract and sponsorship money. So, the guy has been punished pretty thoroughly, and from all I've heard at least appears to be genuinely repentant, and, as I said, trying to work with one of the biggest pro-animal welfare organizations there is.... What more do you want from the man?

I'm not asking for him to be one of your favorite people, don't get me wrong, and what he did was utterly reprehensible and sickening, but there seems to have been some genuine change there, and he does seem to be working to make what amends he can.

-Arlos

Genuine change? That's a joke. He's doing what he has to so as to not be lynched by millions of outraged people who are baffled that he somehow gets to make 1.6 million a year after what he did.

The guy didn't just "kill a dog" - to minimize it to that is to say a pedophile just "played with a kid." He hooked dogs up to car batteries, jump started their heads, threw them into pools, drowned them in barrels - he systematically tortured and murdered countless animals for the purpose of making money. What he did is deplorable and it's a little puzzling to me, Vonk, that you'd actually reduce it to no big deal, he killed a dog - not like it was a human. To say something like that makes me think that you might not know the full details of the case - most don't know some of the more upsetting pieces of info; the really gruesome details weren't quite as profiled in the news etc. I'd invite you to research more of the details of how these animals died and his ghastly graveyard and tell me if you feel the same.

I'm not trying to minimize drunk driving - I think that it's absolutely horrible and if you're behind the wheel of a car that actually injures or kills someone you should not be allowed back. However, I do think there's a difference between being inebriated and making piss poor judgment and having your wits about you and laughing as you torture a living being. It's not about dogs vs. humans - it's about the violent nature of the crime.

I'm all about second chances - that's fine. But he does not deserve a second chance making big bucks in an industry that chlidren look up to as a convicted felon with crimes of the nature he committed. As a convicted felon, I'd have a hard time getting a job at McDonald's, and I guarantee any private company would laugh me out the door if I tried to apply for a job in my current field because I felt like I deserved a second chance. In this market, there are plenty of hard-working non-felons who are good upstanding people who can't find a job - he should have to deal with the same grind anyone else does. He needs to start back at the bottom and prove himself. All this is doing is sending the message that what he did was okay - just serve a year or two and you'll be right back where you started - just do a better job of hiding it next time. What does this say to kids? Be a ghetto ass thug with no morals about you and no mercy whatsoever and you can still be anything you want to be making millions a year? What he did is seriously psychopathic - it's not just a matter of the crime. It takes a sick type of person to be able to do what he did.

And Jay, I'm not disappointed in the NFL because of Vick. I'm disappointed in the NFL because they single-handedly validated and handed a victory to a sick underground industry that's cheering and laughing as they torture more animals as a game. I could care less about Vick - he's vermin and if there's a hell I hope he rots in it. There's nothing you can do about a psychopath simply taking what's given to him - but that doesn't mean I'm going to happily support the check writers who made it possible. Do you really think it was a wise business decision? Even business-wise, it's an awfully risky decision for someone who isn't ground-breaking or league changing. If it was a clear cut business decision guaranteed to make them money, maybe it would make more business sense.. but frankly, I think that for every dollar they gain they'll lose from those who don't believe he should be allowed back and are disgusted that he is - just doesn't seem worth all the hassle.

[Drem]

this thread makes me think of the adventures of milo & otis. 20 milos. breaking their legs so they walked injured and throwing kittens off cliffs