NBA Labor Dispute

[Arlos]

Looks like the season is going byebye in the NBA.

I think in this one, I blame the owners more than the players. The players have given up a shitload so far, but ownership hasn't done anything to try and meet them halfway, just sat back and made ultimatums.

What do you NBA experts think about the whole situation, with the league about to lose a whole season like Baseball and Hockey did?

At least with Hockey, the game improved a lot when it returned, as they cut down a lot on the interference and clutching & grabbing going on. (though it seems to have started to creep back in, they need to crack down again.) Baseball, on the other hand, in their desperation to get fans back solidly embraced the steroid era. (see: Sosa/McGuire home run chase that started Baseball's resurgence.) What do you guys see ahead for the NBA if they DO lose a season? (or hell, two+?)

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

I still have hope for some sort of salvaged season, but things are not looking good. Things could get pretty weird though. If the PA officially folds, Stern will void all contracts. He has said this many times. This means a total free agent class. I would imagine when a CBA eventually comes back they would bargain to keep existing contracts, since it's likely what everyone (Gilbert Arenas!!) wants. It would be crazy though, to have a league of FAs. New York would be salivating at the opportunity to build a team without doing any work.

Currently I'm angry at both. They're so close, but they've made it so personal. Last I heard the only concession left for the ownership group to make was making "player movement" easier. It's just a silly nebulous term. Who cares. Get it done already.

My biggest worry (selfishly) is that if an entire season gets missed my team which has been eyeing a top 3 pick this season based on their poor roster, might get a lower pick based on performance in the last 3 years (like the NHL did). Cleveland especially would hate this outcome.

I think the NBA has to be really worried about public reaction. The average sports fan already resents the fact that the league is full of self-entitled black millionaires. A long work stoppage would (and already has started to) manifest itself into full blow racism. It could really hurt the league.

[Lyion]

There could be blowback, but it ain't racism, except to the bleeding heart who can't see the issue is perceived not as black vs white, but as millionaire vs billionaire during a time of economic woe and high unemployment. Same deal as baseball.

Anyways, March Madness will always be around for us racist goobers in the Good Ole U.S. of KKK.

[Zanchief]

God bless the NCAA. Exploiting athletes for your pleasure. That's the way it should be...

[Kaemon]

God bless the NCAA. Exploiting athletes for your pleasure. That's the way it should be...

They don't have to go to college on a free ride, they can take they're chances and try and go pro. Once they fail, they can go back to school and pay out of pocket.

[Zanchief]

"Free ride"? They make the NCAA millions if not billions and get paid...zero dollars. Some nice economics there.

[Spazz]

Maybe no basketball season will be a good thing and will force basketball lovers to watch a better sport. Like hockey football and mma you know manly sports

[Zanchief]

MMA is about as manly as getting fucked in the ass, Spazz. Watching sweaty guys grapple isn't my thing.

[Kaemon]

"Free ride"? They make the NCAA millions if not billions and get paid...zero dollars. Some nice economics there.

Zanchief, your own country which has 2 governing collegiate associations don't even offer student athletes the same kind scholarships our universities do. Do you even know what a yearly tuition costs these days? That's not even considering room and board and supplies...yes, free ride for some folks that are gifted that will never owe ten's of thousands in student aid or probably didn't even have the mental capacity to get in the first place.

[Zanchief]

They don't go to school for that benefit. Their tuition is payed for simply so they can play sports. They're on campus to play sports. They don't even attend class. Why would they? They've chosen a profession that does not require it. Not everyone is suited for higher education. These kids are invited to the school to play for free and the institutions make millions off of them.

I'll ignore your google searching Canadian school because obviously you don't know what you're talking about.

[Kaemon]

Actually, I used Bing.

[Spazz]

MMA is about as manly as getting fucked in the ass, Spazz. Watching sweaty guys grapple isn't my thing.

Somehow i bet you if Nick Diaz had you in an arm triangle or Jon Jones had you mounted bashing your face in gay sex would be the last thing on your mind. Yes my friend watching large sweaty black men prance around in little shorts and tank tops is way better. I am sorry that you are so insecure in your sexuality that 2 guys competing in hand to hand combat makes you think about your deepest darkest desires.

You want to know the big difference between most sports and mma ? In other sports you can buy and trade your way into a championship where in mma you have to earn a championship on your own talents alone. That is what makes it the purest sport out there.

Though I think your an asshole I do hope the nba gets its shit together I know there are a lot of basketball fans out there and it sucks for them that they have to go without something they enjoy cuz a bunch of rich fuckers cant come to an agreement.I think most athletes no matter what the sport is are grossly overpaid but it is what it is man. Oh just so we are clear when i speak on greed I am talking about owners. Im not sure on basketball ownership but if its anything like football fuck those guys. Doesnt matter what the sport when players and owners cant come to an agreement its the fans of the teams that suffer.

[Arlos]

You don't win Tennis, Golf, Skiing, Swimming or most track & field events on your own talents? (just to name a fuckton of other sports that are, by your definition, just as "pure" as MMA) You telling me that lining up 10 people and seeing which of them runs the fastest isn't a "pure" sport? How about speed skating or gymnastics? Hell, competitive weightlifting or fencing? Not to mention, team sports require significant challenges in integration, teamwork and coordination that simply don't occur in individual sports.

Seriously, MMA is a sister sport to boxing, and differs from it only in relatively small matters of detail. There's nothing mythic or particularly special about it. You like it, great, watch it, but don't try and claim it's something more than it is.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Seriously, MMA is a sister sport to boxing, and differs from it only in relatively small matters of detail. There's nothing mythic or particularly special about it

Thats

No dude MMa is complete Boxing is just one aspect of fighting. Lets say you put a boxer vs a wrestler in a 1 on 1 fight what % of the time do you think the boxer would win? Yes arlos those sports are singles as well But those guys dont have to worry about someone smashing their face in snapping a bone or choking them the fuck out so the level of intensity is a lot lower. Also mma in its mainstream is younger than boxing but its been around forever.Ever heard of Pankration?Its older than jesus. Im not claiming it is anything other than what it is the most intense sporting competition that a human can be involved in. Skating and running are about speed. Tennis and fencing are about points. MMA is 2 people putting it all on the line to see who is the better man for the night at great risk to themselves. Im sorry the truth seems to be offending you this evening.

Ya know I came into this thread clowning but it seems that you guys are gettin heated that I dogged on basketball.

Let me ask you 2 questions before I go to bed. Floyd mayweather vs gsp who you think takes that one in a real fight? Dont like that one How bout a prime tyson vs Lesnar ? All boxers gotta worry about is hands and that isnt a slight difference that is night and day.

Go back to your basketball conversation jesus.

[Narrock]

People take sports way too seriously. lol

[Gaazy]

MMA is about as manly as getting fucked in the ass, Spazz. Watching sweaty guys grapple isn't my thing.

Somehow i bet you if Nick Diaz had you in an arm triangle or Jon Jones had you mounted bashing your face in gay sex would be the last thing on your mind. Yes my friend watching large sweaty black men prance around in little shorts and tank tops is way better. I am sorry that you are so insecure in your sexuality that 2 guys competing in hand to hand combat makes you think about your deepest darkest desires.

You want to know the big difference between most sports and mma ? In other sports you can buy and trade your way into a championship where in mma you have to earn a championship on your own talents alone. That is what makes it the purest sport out there.

Though I think your an asshole I do hope the nba gets its shit together I know there are a lot of basketball fans out there and it sucks for them that they have to go without something they enjoy cuz a bunch of rich fuckers cant come to an agreement.I think most athletes no matter what the sport is are grossly overpaid but it is what it is man. Oh just so we are clear when i speak on greed I am talking about owners. Im not sure on basketball ownership but if its anything like football fuck those guys. Doesnt matter what the sport when players and owners cant come to an agreement its the fans of the teams that suffer.

No, thats bullshit, its fake. I could whip Brock's ass or anyone else you put there

[Spazz]

No pro wrestling is fake. Fake being thats its scripted but still hurts like hell and you take a lot of bumps. MMA is as real as it gets but you know that and are just being as ass. Brock would prolly beat the fuck out of both of us at the same time unless you or I was armed that dude is seriously powerful.

[Narrock]

lol Gaazy... Even I couldn't take Brock.

[Spazz]

I could take him in a street fight if I could draw my glock before he got ahold of me. Hes as big as a buffalo and it would be damn hard to miss him. I think the police would understand if i was like brock lesnar was trying to get me man what did you want me to do ?

[Arlos]

Bill Simmons' take on the lockout: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/725 ... s-personal

Think he's right?

-Arlos

[Tikker]

.

[Zanchief]

In the end, the owners wanted to much. I was siding with the owners most of the way, but the NBPA made huge concessions and the owners always wanted more. After a while players just said enough. If this was a labor negotiation and your job was being affected, you guys likely would have done the same thing. The fact that they make a lot of money is meaningless.

[Zanchief]

Looks like it's over.

Season starts on Christmas day.

[vonkaar]

Skating and running are about speed. Tennis and fencing are about points. MMA is 2 people putting it all on the line to see who is the better man for the night at great risk to themselves. Im sorry the truth seems to be offending you this evening.

lol

and, uh... MMA is all about fighting.

Running is about speed and MMA is about fighting. Glad you nailed it there. Is baseball about hitting a ball with a stick?

Track & Field; shot put for example - two (or more) people putting it all on the line to see who is the better man for the night at great risk to themselves. I'm sorry but the truth is the same fucking truth in both sports. It's all opinion and conjecture. I enjoy & respect MMA and consider it a sport. I hate competitive ice skating/dancing/wtfever and don't consider it a sport... but I hear great arguments against this all the time. That's just my opinion.

The long jump, to me, is the most 'pure' expression of an athletic event as there is in any sport. It's all about one single moment, one explosion of every single fiber in your entire body. Look up Bob Beamon's jump in the 1968 Mexico City olympics. Before this jump, nobody had broken 27'4.75". The 27' mark was seen as the great barrier that only the greatest leapers broke, like Bannister's 4-minute mile. But 28' was unthinkable. Beamon trained just the same as every other long jump athlete that year, spent his entire life for this one moment. When the time came, he sprinted down the runway and completely exploded off the mark. He soared past 28 feet... and then 29 feet... to hit 29'2.5". They had to wait 20 minutes to measure it because the measuring equipment didn't even go past 28'. Nobody else in those games even broke the previous world record and this new record stood for over 2 decades. You tell me a single 1-second burst in any MMA event that compares to this. Haymakers do not count for this, one guy winding up for a monster punch and the other guy not properly defending equals a knockout. But that's ABSOLUTELY NOT what those MMA fighters trained for. Technique & strategy. Two guys, putting it all on the line, etc. Bob Beamon trained his whole life to make one jump; primed his whole body for one jump; worked out and ate properly for that one jump and it made him a legend. Anderson Silva beats the fuck out of people and may go down as the greatest ever, but that could be just as much a product of weak competition as it is his dominance. Could you say the same for Beamon?

But yeah, if Bob Beamon and Chuck Liddell got into a fight, I'd imagine Chuck would win pretty easily. Whooptee doo. And you know what? If Spider Silvia (or probably 99% of the current UFC roster) got into a boxing match with a retired Mike Tyson who hasn't trained for 2 years, Mike would walk all over him. It's a different sport. Mike Tyson in the octagon? He'd lose to all but 2 or 3 guys, I'd imagine. It's a different sport...

Just like coming into a basketball thread and talking MMA.




Back on topic - Greatest Christmas present I could receive: being in the building watching the banners raise and Dirk/Jet/Kidd getting their rings while Lebron and co have to watch. That's priceless.

[Zanchief]

haha are you going to be at the game? That's going to be a priceless moment. I'll be watching for sure and I don't even hate The Heat. I'm toying with the idea of rooting for them this year. I hate all the teams in the east anyway, and in this type of season with a diminished training camp, I think talent will win over smarts, and there's no team in the league more talented. In an odd way, they've become underrated, and I'm a bit sick of all the none NBA fans jumping on the heat hate. If you've been following the NBA, especially if you've been following Cleveland, I get the resentment, but it seems people just want to hate LeBron. I'm not down with that this year. I think those two knuckleheads in Boston who made fools of themselves during the labour negotiations deserve more hate this year.