NBA Labor Dispute

[vonkaar]

Yeah, but I think it's hilarious that the Heat's best chance to win will STILL be tainted because they did it in a shortened season. That's incredible. Yes, they are the most talented and should easily be the best odds in Vegas for taking the title. But they had to do it in a shortened season where most of their competition had to rebuild while they stayed intact. Luck of the draw.

I completely agree with the random Lebron hate. I mean, I have every reason to dislike the guy because I fucking follow the NBA like few people. Hell, I was defending him for The Decision©, up until The Party©. I was more of a Melo fan since 03 but I still respected 'Bron just fine. But I know people who hate on Lebron and can't name a single other player in the league. My little nephew was one such example, he also named Kobe but thought he played for Dallas . Hates Lebron though. Why? Because the Sprite ads suck these days? Not good enough! Hate him for not showing loyalty to his roots in Cleveland. Hate him for orchestrating a complete undermining of free-agency and exposing Stern as a gutless and powerless windbag. Hate him for his 4th quarter shortcomings. Hate him for lost bets. Hate him for all the PR fuckups and cocky rich-man one-liners. Hate him for being the living embodiment of everything that's wrong in professional sports. Hate him for being in Miami Most importantly, hate him for your own reasons and not because it's the 'cool' thing to do.

I will absolutely be at Game 1. I mean, I'd be there for the banner raising ceremony even if it was against the Pacers. But the previously mentioned reasons are certainly a nice treat =).

[Zanchief]

Pretty much. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "he's what's wrong in professional sports", but I tend to have a skewed opinion about things like this. I like guys like Arenas and Artest. But he's a complete douche, and a bit of a coward and I think that's why people hate him. I also think the fact that everyone supported him, he became the face of the league, and he did some boneheaded moves, made people ashamed of how much they liked him. Lyions from Cleveland though, so I've always casually rooted against them. This fact also made me happy when he left even if Bosh did the same to us (to a much lesser degree).

I think the hate on for Bosh is also pretty hilarious too. It's like people are seeing his game for the first time, because the only time anyone ever cared about him before now was if they had him in their fantasy team. He's always played that way, and to be honest, had make huge concessions in order to play with LeBron and Wade, and he got not bit of leeway for it. He was pretty much useless playing without the ball in Toronto, and was basically only useful in high post iso's, facing his man and beating them off the dribble because he's faster then almost all other PFs in the league. Now, he doesn't really get any touches and has to become a weak side jump shooter (which he's actually really good at) and defender/rebounder (which he's terrible at).

Go heatles! Maybe they can sign a 7th center for the vet minimum!

[Snero]

F the heat!

I'm pulling for the raps and then umm, the timberwolves, go rubio!

[vonkaar]

I always pull for the Raptors...

though now the rumor mill has them AGGRESSIVELY pursuing our Tyson Chandler. He's even gone so far as to publicly say that he doesn't think he'll be a Mav this year =/. Le sigh...

[Snero]

at the price people are talking, I don't think i would really want a 1 dimensional, injury prone center even though he would be a great fit on the raps.

Cheer up vonk, you still have haywood for another 5 years or so, maybe he won't be so bad after a full season in Dallas under his belt

[vonkaar]

Well Haywood would be the most obvious choice for amnesty. He was a great fit for us 2 years ago before we signed Tyson and was even expected to start over him. Tyson played better and earned his minutes.

Let's get Dwight Howard here and then Deron Williams next year for THE super team. Cuban won't mind shelling out $230m over 5 years in luxury tax for THAT team.

[Snero]

how sad would it be to miss out on dwight or deron because your team overpaid to keep jj barea

so i guess Caron is gone from the mavs?

[Arlos]

Local rumor mill in the papers here has the Warriors making a hard run at Tyson Chandler, with Nene as their fallback plan if they don't get Chandler.

Some of the more wild-eyed rumors have the Warriors trading Curry for CP3, if he'll sign an extension.

Thoughts?

-Arlos

[vonkaar]

how sad would it be to miss out on dwight or deron because your team overpaid to keep jj barea

so i guess Caron is gone from the mavs?

I think that JJB wants to stay in Dallas more than Caron or Tyson so we'll get him a better price than we would for the other two. But we won't over pay, for sure. It sounds like Butler hasn't even received a CALL from Donnie Nelson, which is surprising. When he was healthy, we were the best team in the league by a pretty far margin. We were something like 26-7 IIRC and he was a likely all-star pick which is near impossible for forwards in the West. To not even TRY to keep him is shocking. He'll be a great fit in either Chicago or LA; both are aggressively pursuing him.

Arlos,
I'd want Tyson in GS more than Nene. Y'all need a defensive 5 and some chemistry/leadership in the locker room. Chandler is great for both. Not that Nene is going to bring guns into his locker or complain about practice(???) 50x in a post-game interview, but Tyson Chandler improved what was already considered GREAT camaraderie in Dallas. He's just a really great guy. The Warriors need that after all the fracturing and bad personalities over the past 10 years.

I don't see New Orleans taking Curry for Paul straight up. Dude has about as perfect an offensive game as you can find, especially for someone so young... but that's his whole game. Paul is a true superstar and the best at his position in the league. You don't give that up unless you're getting something close in return, or a 'game-changing' package. Curry+expiring contract+1st round pick would do it. Would it beat some of the other offers they'll receive? Maybe... Curry is pretty badass.

[Snero]

curry is a really nice piece but I get the feeling it's going to take another rather big piece to land Paul.

I'm not sure I would say Paul is the best PG in the league, I would take Deron instead, but it's damn close.

It makes me sad to see the knicks digging themselves out and potentially becoming a good team. They need to bring Isaiah back, stat!

[Arlos]

Arlos,
I'd want Tyson in GS more than Nene. Y'all need a defensive 5 and some chemistry/leadership in the locker room. Chandler is great for both. Not that Nene is going to bring guns into his locker or complain about practice(???) 50x in a post-game interview, but Tyson Chandler improved what was already considered GREAT camaraderie in Dallas. He's just a really great guy. The Warriors need that after all the fracturing and bad personalities over the past 10 years.

I don't see New Orleans taking Curry for Paul straight up. Dude has about as perfect an offensive game as you can find, especially for someone so young... but that's his whole game. Paul is a true superstar and the best at his position in the league. You don't give that up unless you're getting something close in return, or a 'game-changing' package. Curry+expiring contract+1st round pick would do it. Would it beat some of the other offers they'll receive? Maybe... Curry is pretty badass.

On Chandler: Yeah, that's what some of the local media have been saying too, that they're going to amnesty Biedrins and use the space to go after Chandler hard. Then if they don't get him, they go after Nene.

As for CP3, again, you're absolutely right, the columnists talking about it here have definitely noted that it would take more than just Curry to land him. They're calling for also landing Chandler, then offering a Curry-based package to NO, and trying to sell CP3 on signing an extension by showing the improvements they've made (ie, Chandler) along with the new ownership. That'd give a top-4 of Chandler/Lee/CP3/Ellis, which even *I* know would be an upgrade over what they have now. rofl. Still, there's no way in hell they give up Curry for a 1-year rental, so it's CP3 agreeing to sign the extension that's the ultimate factor. Since he's already said he wouldn't sign one for Boston, though, I think it's HIGHLY unlikely that he'd sign one with the Warriors.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

Tyson: BC said this week that he's not going to sign Chandler. I think that means he will. I get the impression he's waiting on Haywood or another big to get amnestied.

Curry VS Paul: I think that's exactly the kind of deal NOH makes for Paul. They want a very good young player who will (have to) stay for a few more years. They may ask for another small piece like a protected pick and maybe ship out a contract they don't want anymore. I think this makes a lot of sense, but I doubt Paul reups with them anyway.

Crazy about Caron. When he went down I was like oh damn, they just lost their shot. What do I know.

[vonkaar]

CP3 vs Deron is close enough that I won't argue the matter. I see a clear #1 and #2 but I'd concede a 1a and 1b without too much discussion. They're both studs.

I honestly think that Chandler will likely sign with whatever team pays him the most. He has his ring and his contributions for that run were well documented. His place in history is noted. I mean, I'm not saying he has any shot at the HoF or anything, but his resume will have a really nice paragraph about the change he brought for a wonderful season in Dallas. Now he needs to do what's best for his family.

Rumors are heating up big time about Howard in purple and gold... apparently Bynum has already told friends that he's expecting to play for the Magic this season .

[Zanchief]

This is what you're going to see happen. Superstars being traded for .50 on the dollar for young players. That's why I really see the Curry for Paul thing working out for all.

[Zanchief]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217066/Warriors_Offering_Curry_Thompson_Udoh_For_Paul

I'd do it if I was NOH. Maybe I ask for a future first to soften the blow, but they get some young talent.

It could be a really nice move for GSW if they can land Chandler. Paul/Ellis backcourt would be pretty brutal.

[Arlos]

Yeah, but I WOULDN'T do it if I were the Warriors unless I got a guarantee of a signed extension from CP3. No way is giving up Curry + parts worth a 1 year rental.

One of the local columnists mentioned the Warriors had a similar deal set up once, that would haev brought Amare here in a trade, but didn't pull the trigger because they couldn't get a guarantee of signing an extension.

Can you just imagine the fury of the fans if they did the deal without an extension, CP3 leaves after a year, then Ellison buys the Hornets and moves them to share the Shark Tank in San Jose? Ellison might do that just because it would be a giant middle finger to Lacob and the crew that beat him out of the Warriors bid.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

I know there's a risk, but look what the nets did. They rented Deron and it looks like it panned out and he's going to stay. No way NJ was on his radar before. There's something to be said for the camaraderie in the locker room. Plus the got a coach who's going to be a motivator. He may be able to inspire him. Yes, it's a lot of to give up, and obv. they'd prefer if this was a sign and trade (which it might end up being) but this could be the type of gamble that makes GSW a contending team.

[Zanchief]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217082/Barea_Expects_To_Leave_Mavericks

Looks like Dallas isn't trying to hard to bring the team back together. Thoughts on this Vonk?

Seems a bit risky when you know you have a winning formula, but from a fan of the league, I'd rather Paul/Williams/Howard go to Dallas then NY or LAL.

Good luck.

[vonkaar]

My problem with the GS trade is that it really wouldn't be that good of a team with just Tyson and Paul. You had a younger Tyson with a healthy David West and a near MVP Chris Paul all together in New Orleans and they didn't get past the 2nd round. That team is better than this proposed Warriors squad. Now, if Curry was still there? That's different. The point is, why would Paul be interested in signing with that team? It's a weaker version of his 2008 Hornets. Paul-Ellis-Wright-Lee-Chandler. Nice... but how about Paul-Bryant-Artest-Turkoglu-Howard? Eek. Though, I honestly

Or, Paul-Fernandez-Marion-Nowitzki-Howard. Bring it!

Like I said before, Tyson will follow the money. So GS has just as good a chance as anyone at signing him.

I don't know about Donnie. It's all very risky. Deron Williams is a big time native boy and has lots of family down here. He grew up watching the Mavs and blablah... yeah that'd be great. But holy shit that's risky. Let JJB, Butler AND Chandler walk - all with the hopes of getting Williams/Paul or Howard? What's plan B?

[Zanchief]

I think this GSW would be better then that Hornets team, mostly because Chandler is a better player then he was, and Lee is better then David West (never been much of a fan). Ellis is a very good scorer too. One of the most underrated players in the league imo. They'd need a deadeye three point shooting 3 though, since none of the other players are that great at it, but they could get a guy like Jefferson or Korver or something for that. That's a tough team to beat.

[vonkaar]

Well...

Last year that same team WITH Stephen Curry finished ten games outside of the playoffs in a weaker west than in 2008. The Hornets, on the other hand, finished with the #2 seed, won their division, took down the Mavs in only 5 games (winning by an average of 13.5 points) and took a very good San Antonio team all the way to game 7 in the semis. GSW finished 10th, NOH finished 2nd and almost made the WCF against LA. And speaking of deadeye 3point shooting, NOH had a still very-good Peja, good for 16ppg at 44% 3pts.

Tyson Chandler was a beast for us this year and I love him for it. But he was better in 2008. To say he'll be better even a year later when his numbers have only declined since 08 is silly.
Regular season:
ppg/rpg/bpg
2010: 10.1/9.4/1.1
2008: 11.8/11.7/1.1

playoffs:
ppg/rpg/bpg
2010: 8.0/9.2/0.9
2008: 8.0/10.3/1.7

[Zanchief]

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyson%20Chandler

Well yes, averages per game were a little higher when he was averaging nearly 8 more minutes a game. Check out his PERs for 2008 compared to 2011. He's up in nearly every advanced stat. Plus this isn't the case of a declining player. His numbers in the two years between were awful. One with the team he was already with. He's actually still getting better, and coming into his own.

You can't compare GSW without Paul and Chandler. Those are going to be two completely different teams. They may not get to 2nd in the west in their first year, but they will be a lot better on both ends of the floor. You have to start somewhere. Dallas' championship team wasn't put together overnight. They have a chance to become a lot better and go from there. What's the alternative? Not get better and risk continuing to be mediocre/poor forever?

Also 16 point scorers who play one side of the ball are easy to find. They could pick up Turk, I'm sure he'll get amnestied.

[vonkaar]

First... You're betting against history... There have been exactly 3 centers in moden NBA history who played well into their 30s at a high level and they're all HoF bound. Tyson played very well this year but his minutes were down and he wasn't under a lot of pressure because he had a good backup. Plus, he's never had (and likely will never again have) a front-court partner like Dirk. It was a perfect situation for a contract year and he took advantage of it. I'm sure he'll put up great numbers next year but don't look for him to be so equally dominant.

Second... My point was that you are trying to compare a theoretical team built on the foundation of a REALLY SHITTY team with one that was proven to be very very special. Getting the 2nd seed in the West that year - a year when the 9th, 10th and 11th teams would have made the playoffs if they were in the East, #9 (GSW) would have gotten homecourt - and going up 3-2 against San Antonio (defending champs) in the semis... that's special. They might have won the series had West not injured his back in game 6. The Warriors have a few decent starters and SUCKED last year. They'd be giving up their best player and having to amnesty their backup center. I love David Lee and Monta Ellis, but that team is not ready for prime time. Keep Curry, finish up a seed or two this year, get a nice lottery pick and maybe sign one of the big guns next year.

And... c'mon, you don't even know anything about Mark Jackson. He could be another Isaiah Thomas (coaching) for all we know. Byron Scott is the shit.

[Zanchief]

Well if that NOH team was so special, why not try and recreate with nearly the exact same team? They match up nearly identical except they have more scoring from their backcourt and more rebounding from the frontcourt (the way I'd want it).

And there are only like 3 centers in the modern era that have played well...period. This has not been a good era for centers. The thing about Chandler is he's had plenty of time to rest in his career. He's had a lot of injuries that don't seem to have slowed him down right now, so he doesn't have quite as much mileage as others.

I'm not sure he's worth 15 mill a year, but I just think there's a chance for GSW to do something special. Those opportunities don't happen often for a franchise like that. I like that they're going for it.

It seems this is all for nothing though, since Chandlers going to the Knicks. I'll happily root against them.

[Arlos]

CNN SI saying Lakers are going to get Paul:

The Chris Paul circus may be over.

While no deal has been finalized, two sources said New Orleans is closing in on a deal to send their franchise point guard to the Lakers in a three-team deal with Houston. The Rockets would receive veteran forward Pau Gasol in the deal, while the Hornets would net small forward Lamar Odom from the Lakers and shooting guard Kevin Martin, forward Luis Scola and point guard Goran Dragic from the Rockets.

The talks between the Hornets, Rockets and Lakers were first reported by SI.com

The Hornets had shown signs of leaning toward doing a deal with Boston as recently as Thursday morning, with Celtics general manager Danny Ainge determined to land Paul despite the fact that he didn't want to play there long-term. But according to one involved source, teams that were in the hunt for Paul were informed of this deal by the Hornets on Thursday afternoon.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1fzcLOhaV

Think that LA can then do a deal with Orlando for Howard using Bynum?

-Arlos