What's Your Excuse

[Jay]

what about people with documentable thyroid problems

let's go ahead and make fun of them too, dickheads

Well I'm clearly talking about someone who just doesn't wanna get out of bed vs someone with a medical disorder. With that being said, tough love or verbal abuse/bullying and what's your solution to the problem of motivating an obese person to invest time into their bodies o become healthier?

[brinstar]

i dunno how about positivity and caring

like "hey man i know you're not gonna want to hear this but you're getting kinda big and i'm starting to worry about your health - maybe it's none of my business and i'm not trying to piss you off, but dude i miss the stuff we used to do outside and i want us to be able to go do that stuff together for decades to come. maybe we can start exercising together? start simple, like daily walks or something?"

[Ganzo]

I'm a big believer in changing your body through what you eat. You can go to gym and go crazy with lifting and cardio every day, but if you don't start eating right it is all for nothing.

Best decision I ever made was stopping eating meat and dairy, cutting out caffeine and sugar, and switching to fresh fruit and vegetables, good carbs like black and wild rice, beans, multi grain bread. I still eat fish but only wild caught and fresh not frozen.

I don't diet, eat a lot of different types of food, only go to the gym 2-3 times a week (don't have the time) and only do treadmill when I am in the gym, yet from eating healthy, my body has been reforming itself to the best shape it was in. I was steadily dropping 15-20lbs each month since I changed my eating habits, until all the fat melted off of me, then stopped losing weight and stayed at the same place since.

As far as shaming goes, I think it is counterproductive because it creates depression and stress and both of them cause weight gain. You want to help someone, teach them how to eat good food.

[Jay]

I think they go hand in hand. The lack of one can be very counterproductive to the other although I will say eating the wrong foods is probably more counterproductive to exercise than lack of exercise is to proper nutrition.

Now, when I say "shaming", I don't mean we're gonna solve the epidemic of obesity by screaming "Hey Fatty" at your local mall. What I also don't mean is that there is one singular answer to motivating people to get in better shape. Some people respond to "Hey you tubby fuck" and some people respond to kindness and other stuff, but my thing is I'm willing to take that step with my close friends.

My friend Kan was sitting over 300lbs and just had a kid last year. He sits at a desk for a living and after 5 he drinks beers and watches TV. His wife was bugging him about losing weight but really to no avail and sometimes when we go out with the guys and have to walk a distance due to parking in SF he can get tired pretty easily. I used both approaches as he's one of my best friends. First time I brought it up to him I said look bro, you have a kid now and you need to be there for her in the future and that means staying healthy and alive to set an example and to just enjoy life to the fullest. Didn't work. What worked was people asking if we could stop at Jack in a Box after whatever we were doing and me saying, "Naw I'm good. If I eat too much there I'll look like this fat fuck.", or making fun of his big tits, or talking about having sex with one of his love handles etc etc. After a while he made his way to the gym, 4 months later he's lost 20lbs and is slowly decreasing in weight and maintaining his weight loss. I told him I was glad he was workin out and losing weight. His response was, well I gotta get you guys to shut the fuck up somehow, plus it'll relieve your mom's back strain.

[Lyion]

Best decision I ever made was stopping eating meat and dairy, cutting out caffeine and sugar, and switching to fresh fruit and vegetables, good carbs like black and wild rice, beans, multi grain bread. I still eat fish but only wild caught and fresh not frozen..

Good for you, Ganzo. It sounds like you have found the right foods for you. I think diet is an individual choice. My experiences are a bit different. The best decision I ever made was to limit sugars, also. Most breads have more sugar and cause more blood sugar spikes than candy bars. Fruit likewise is loaded with fructose and other sugars. I mostly eat meat, very necessary for muscle maintenance and growth and vegetables. I eat low carb yogurt and cheese. I limit most other dairy. I eat some berries, but little of other fruit. I eat a lot of meat. . I still have coffee, but limit it. I am in better shape now than probably anytime in my life. I think if someone wants to lose weight, low carb is by far the easiest way. The problem with it, or any diet is adhering to it. Most people do not stick to a diet. Weight loss is all about diet. I'm a firm believer in Gary Taubes writings, even if I'm not a strict adherent.

My family has a history of diabetes, high blood pressure and being overweight. My numbers are perfect. I'm in my mid 40s and wear a size 32 down from a size 40 when I was 35. I have zero gastro issues.

I don't kill myself working out, but my simple rule for cardio is my shirt needs to be soaked through. If it isn't, I didn't push myself. I lift 3 times a week for 30 minutes. One doesn't have to go to a gym. I don't. Get some dumbbells and make it routine to do 20 minutes of lifting first thing in the morning. I start my day that way Mon, Wed, Fri. I do cardio in the afternoons or lunch time.

[Ganzo]

Best decision I ever made was stopping eating meat and dairy, cutting out caffeine and sugar, and switching to fresh fruit and vegetables, good carbs like black and wild rice, beans, multi grain bread. I still eat fish but only wild caught and fresh not frozen..

Good for you, Ganzo. It sounds like you have found the right foods for you. I think diet is an individual choice. My experiences are a bit different. The best decision I ever made was to limit sugars, also. Most breads have more sugar and cause more blood sugar spikes than candy bars. Fruit likewise is loaded with fructose and other sugars. I mostly eat meat, very necessary for muscle maintenance and growth and vegetables. I eat low carb yogurt and cheese. I limit most other dairy. I eat some berries, but little of other fruit. I eat a lot of meat. . I still have coffee, but limit it. I am in better shape now than probably anytime in my life. I think if someone wants to lose weight, low carb is by far the easiest way. The problem with it, or any diet is adhering to it. Most people do not stick to a diet. Weight loss is all about diet. I'm a firm believer in Gary Taubes writings, even if I'm not a strict adherent.

My family has a history of diabetes, high blood pressure and being overweight. My numbers are perfect. I'm in my mid 40s and wear a size 32 down from a size 40 when I was 35. I have zero gastro issues.

I don't kill myself working out, but my simple rule for cardio is my shirt needs to be soaked through. If it isn't, I didn't push myself. I lift 3 times a week for 30 minutes. One doesn't have to go to a gym. I don't. Get some dumbbells and make it routine to do 20 minutes of lifting first thing in the morning. I start my day that way Mon, Wed, Fri. I do cardio in the afternoons or lunch time.

I disagree with you on fruit Lyion. If you cut out all added sugar, whatever fructose you will get from fruits is not going to hurt you, unless fruit is your main meal. I use fruits as desert or as a flavor in my juices/smoothies. I use bannanas as a filler if i get hungry between meals so I don't go snacking on bad foods.

Meat and dairy I dropped because it is imposible to find them clean around here. I don't know any farmers around here and I'm going to eat beef and chicken which was fed with growth hormones, antibiotics and mix of processed corn and dead cow/chicken leftovers, raised knee deep in it's own shit, than irradiated after slaugher to kill bacteria that it was full off, because slaugher houses are in too much rush to actualy wash the shit off the cow before choping it up. I'll pass on e.coli, mad cow, antibiotic resistance, cancer, heart attack, (unfortunatly was too late to pass on gallbladder stones from digesting animal fat). Same goes for milk and eggs since they come from diseased, hormon and antibiotic filled animals. I mean meat and dairy produced in US and Canada is banned in most of the world because of how bad it is, how full of radiation, hormones, antibiotics and bacteria it is; why would i eat it.

That is why the only fish I buy is wild caught. This also makes keeping kosher very easy. It is very easy to replace proteins from meat and dairy with good vegetable proteins: lima beans, lentils, grains, quinoa, chia, flax, spinach, brocoli, mushrooms - all have very high protein content and dont cause any negative sideeffects unlike meat and dairy does.

[Zanchief]

It's just crazy how much misinformation is going around about nutrition these days. GMOs, irradiation...it's all safe and harmeless but becasue people refuse to actually do the work and look things up and it sounds scary, people assume its unhealthy. Sad really that we live in such ignorant times when so much information is available.

People think companies are fighting to prevent GMO warnings on food because they want to keep consumers ignorant? It's because consumers are so ignorant it will unjustely effect their profits.

[Ganzo]

It's just crazy how much misinformation is going around about nutrition these days. GMOs, irradiation...it's all safe and harmeless but becasue people refuse to actually do the work and look things up and it sounds scary, people assume its unhealthy. Sad really that we live in such ignorant times when so much information is available.

People think companies are fighting to prevent GMO warnings on food because they want to keep consumers ignorant? It's because consumers are so ignorant it will unjustely effect their profits.

Again baseless statements, I have asked you once already in this thread to show something that proves what you are saying.

GMO by itself present no danger, however GMO means that produce was modified to endure the pesticides, however many studies have found that while produce can endure pesticides that it was modified to resist, it also tends to absorb higher ammounts of the same pesticides, thus causing consumers to eat more harmfull chemicals, leading to many harmfull sideeffects including cancer, birth defects, misscariages.

Irradiating meat does not cause it to be radioactive, and I did not claim it did. What Irradiation of meat is is a bandaid on a problem of bad feeding, raising and slaughering of animals. Current mass production of meat caused such high levels of bacteria to be included in the meat that the new solution was to irradiate the meat - a solution that does not actualy kill the bacteria because the levels of irradiation needed to do that would also destroy the flavor of meat and no one would eat it.

Instead of irradiating meat, we could change the process to produce clean meat and stop feeding people with processed shit full of chemicals, high fructose syrups, processed oils and salt.

[Zanchief]

Baseless claims would be you making inaccurate claims to begin with. If you're happy with your festering bacteria, by all means, rally against radiation. If you're claiming it's perfectly healthy, why would you list it among a laundry list of factual inaccuracies? You should have simply said, I did not know this before, and was wrongfully led to believe this was harmful, until I just now finally did some research.

A simple thanks for the heads up would have been fine too. Nutrition is an industry that is just maddeningly misinformed. Even your claims of high fructose corn syrup are ignorant. Processed sugars are no different from "natural" ones.

PS I use the word natural only in its improper use that is so common amongst nutrition aficionados. It has no real meaning in the real world.

Form your source.

Earth Open Source
Earth Open Source is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to assuring the sustainability, security, and safety of the global food system. It supports agroecological, farmer-based systems that conserve soil, water, and energy and that produce healthy and nutritious food free from unnecessary toxins. It challenges the use of pesticides, artificial fertilizer and genetically modified organisms (GMOs) on the grounds of the scientifically proven hazards that they pose to health and the environment and because of the negative social and economic impacts of these technologies. Earth Open Source holds that our crop seeds and food system are common goods that belong in the hands of farmers and citizens, not of the GMO and chemical industry.

Why would a biologist willfully challenge himself to prove an already unproven hypothesis. Seems bogus to me.

[Zanchief]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-truth-about-genetically-modified-food

Silly scientists. What do they know.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=labels-for-gmo-foods-are-a-bad-idea

Can we all just agree that any well regarded, reviewed scientific study is going to come out in favor of GMOs, and radiation and any other trendy fear mongering unhealthy fad? Do you want me to post 100s of articles for my claims to no longer be baseless? When will you admit to having an opinion held mostly by naturopaths and homeopaths?

[Lyion]

I disagree with you on fruit Lyion. If you cut out all added sugar, whatever fructose you will get from fruits is not going to hurt you, unless fruit is your main meal. I use fruits as desert or as a flavor in my juices/smoothies. I use bannanas as a filler if i get hungry between meals so I don't go snacking on bad foods.
Meat and dairy I dropped because it is imposible to find them clean around here. I don't know any farmers around here and I'm going to eat beef and chicken which was fed with growth hormones, antibiotics and mix of processed corn and dead cow/chicken leftovers, raised knee deep in it's own shit, than irradiated after slaugher to kill bacteria that it was full off, because slaugher houses are in too much rush to actualy wash the shit off the cow before choping it up. I'll pass on e.coli, mad cow, antibiotic resistance, cancer, heart attack, (unfortunatly was too late to pass on gallbladder stones from digesting animal fat). Same goes for milk and eggs since they come from diseased, hormon and antibiotic filled animals. I mean meat and dairy produced in US and Canada is banned in most of the world because of how bad it is, how full of radiation, hormones, antibiotics and bacteria it is; why would i eat it.

That is why the only fish I buy is wild caught. This also makes keeping kosher very easy. It is very easy to replace proteins from meat and dairy with good vegetable proteins: lima beans, lentils, grains, quinoa, chia, flax, spinach, brocoli, mushrooms - all have very high protein content and dont cause any negative sideeffects unlike meat and dairy does.

Again, diet is an individual choice and what you are doing works for you. Ganzo, my family has a history of diabetes and fructose spikes ones blood sugar. That's not an opinion, but simple fact. Ripe bananas are loaded with sugar. I agree it's far healthier eating that versus a snickers, but both are probably doing the same thing spike wise. I personally think a ton of our health issues are related to the huge amount of carbs our bodies are being forced to digest versus what our body was meant to handle. I believe limiting carbs for me is the key to my overall health.

I buy directly from a farmer who has cows, and get 500 pounds of beef at a time. It lasts a good chunk of the year. No slaughter house involved. That said, I have no issues with store bought. You are more likely to get sick and E Coli from 'organic' sources, which is also verified if you google it.

I keep fairly meticulous track of my numbers and I've found limiting fruits, and having some meat and eggs is what works best for me. Most of my meals are about 75% green veggies, and my main goals are to limit processed food and to limit carbs and sugars. I find by doing that my tummy never has any issues and I have high energy and no health problems. I'm not totally ketogenic, but for weight loss I think the more ketogenic one is, the easier it is to lose weight. I think the amount of carbs taken in should be simply what is required for feeling well.. I think for weight loss you need to limit calories, but more importantly you need to watch ratios and understand how ones body reacts to what one eats.

I'm also not limited by kosher choices and include a good chunk of bacon, sausage, and ham in my meals. Fuck giving up my coffee, too. It doesn't hurt me and I it's my one vice left, as I never smoked, wasn't a druggie, and rarely drank.

[Ganzo]

Are you even reading my posts?

Where did I ever claim that irradiating meat made it somehow harmfull? What I said that irradiating meat was a sign that the meat was bad to begin with.

Where did I say that GMO or geneticaly modifying products made them more harmfull? I said that by modifying crops with resist Roundup made those same crops absorb harmfull chemicals while they are growing and being sprayed with Roundup. I don't care about eating vegetables that were modified through genetics, I care about not eating harmfull chemicals.

You are arguing a point that I did not make.

Also, healthy foods are more expensive mostly because chumps pay for it. Natural, organic, grain fed, pesticide free, no GMO. It's all junk. It's no healthier. Enjoy your miracle Quinoa.
I’ll eat my fat stupid pen raised salmon, and pay a fraction for it. It’s the same.

This is a claim you made

Even your claims of high fructose corn syrup are ignorant.

And this one. You are going to tell me that eating fresh fruits is same as eating processed candy?

[Ganzo]

I disagree with you on fruit Lyion. If you cut out all added sugar, whatever fructose you will get from fruits is not going to hurt you, unless fruit is your main meal. I use fruits as desert or as a flavor in my juices/smoothies. I use bannanas as a filler if i get hungry between meals so I don't go snacking on bad foods.
Meat and dairy I dropped because it is imposible to find them clean around here. I don't know any farmers around here and I'm going to eat beef and chicken which was fed with growth hormones, antibiotics and mix of processed corn and dead cow/chicken leftovers, raised knee deep in it's own shit, than irradiated after slaugher to kill bacteria that it was full off, because slaugher houses are in too much rush to actualy wash the shit off the cow before choping it up. I'll pass on e.coli, mad cow, antibiotic resistance, cancer, heart attack, (unfortunatly was too late to pass on gallbladder stones from digesting animal fat). Same goes for milk and eggs since they come from diseased, hormon and antibiotic filled animals. I mean meat and dairy produced in US and Canada is banned in most of the world because of how bad it is, how full of radiation, hormones, antibiotics and bacteria it is; why would i eat it.

That is why the only fish I buy is wild caught. This also makes keeping kosher very easy. It is very easy to replace proteins from meat and dairy with good vegetable proteins: lima beans, lentils, grains, quinoa, chia, flax, spinach, brocoli, mushrooms - all have very high protein content and dont cause any negative sideeffects unlike meat and dairy does.

Again, diet is an individual choice and what you are doing works for you. Ganzo, my family has a history of diabetes and fructose spikes ones blood sugar. That's not an opinion, but simple fact. Ripe bananas are loaded with sugar. I agree it's far healthier eating that versus a snickers, but both are probably doing the same thing spike wise. I personally think a ton of our health issues are related to the huge amount of carbs our bodies are being forced to digest versus what our body was meant to handle. I believe limiting carbs for me is the key to my overall health.

I buy directly from a farmer who has cows, and get 500 pounds of beef at a time. It lasts a good chunk of the year. No slaughter house involved. That said, I have no issues with store bought. You are more likely to get sick and E Coli from 'organic' sources, which is also verified if you google it.

I keep fairly meticulous track of my numbers and I've found limiting fruits, and having a some of meat is what works best for me. Most of my meals are about green veggies, and my main goals are to limit processed food and to limit carbs and sugars. I find by doing that my tummy never has any issues and I have high energy and no health problems. I'm not totally ketogenic, but for weight loss I think the more ketogenic one is, the easier it is to lose weight. I think the amount of carbs taken in should be simply what is required for feeling well.. I think for weight loss you need to limit calories, but more importantly you need to watch ratios and understand how ones body reacts to what one eats.

I'm also not limited by kosher choices and include a good chunk of bacon, sausage, and ham in my meals. Fuck giving up my coffee, too. It doesn't hurt me and I it's my one vice left, as I never spoked, wasn't a druggie, and rarely drank.

I agree, in your situation I'd avoid all sugar whether it's in fruits or candy. And if I had your option of buying meat from farm I'd still eat it; my chiose is based on availability of good produce.

[Zanchief]

Where did I say that GMO or geneticaly modifying products made them more harmfull?

I mean meat and dairy produced in US and Canada is banned in most of the world because of how bad it is, how full of radiation, hormones, antibiotics and bacteria it is; why would i eat it.

This is where it started. You specifically said the food was irradiated. This is likely before you did yourself a favor and goggled this. Back peddle all the way back to an 'I was wrong'.

Yes sugar found in fruit is largely identical to either candy with cane sugar (yes people pay more for cane sugar) or the dreaded high fructose corn syrup.

[Ganzo]

Where did I say that GMO or geneticaly modifying products made them more harmfull?

I mean meat and dairy produced in US and Canada is banned in most of the world because of how bad it is, how full of radiation, hormones, antibiotics and bacteria it is; why would i eat it.

This is where it started. You specifically said the food was irradiated. This is likely before you did yourself a favor and goggled this. Back peddle all the way back to an 'I was wrong'.

Yes sugar found in fruit is largely identical to either candy with cane sugar (yes people pay more for cane sugar) or the dreaded high fructose corn syrup.

Sure you got me now. I didn't proof read and didn't see that I said full of radiation when I was talking about how it was irradiated because it is full of bacteria. This proves your point for sure. Of course since I made a mistake it means that the cow raised on the farm and fed by braising in the field produces same milk and meat as the cow raised in a small pen full of shit and fed growth hormones, steroids, antibiotics and a diet of processed corn and cow intestants, bones and skin. Sure same applies to fish caught in the wild vs fish raised in the tank and fed same shit as the aforementioned cows. Of course organically raised vegetables from the farm are same as the GMO vegetables full of Roundup; and of course a candy made from cows hoofs mixed with high fructose corn syrup is same as fresh grapes or apple.

[Zanchief]

I said none of those things.

This is what I don't understand. Here's a timeline of basically hwo things go down.

People start genetically modifying things. Tests are made. Looks safe. Some people say "I'm not sure about this" (this is a good thing). More tests are made and it looks good. All clear folks. Wait...I still don't like the idea of GMOs. Let's do more tests...

40 Years of crazy paranoid tests are done with the sole goal to bring an end to it because it sounds icky (note, not how you should be conducting scientific studies).

Result? Some of these plants might contain more pestecides (which are also safe btw). That's 40 years of wasted effort. We were right all along! Now if we only spend another 40 years trying to prove persticides are bad it will all come together!

It's all a fraud.

Now...I'm not saying hormone pumped cows, living in their own shit don't taste worse. I get why someone who go to a local butcher for better meat. That doesn't mean that laundry list of silly accusations are true.

[Ganzo]

You say

I said none of those things.

Now...I'm not saying hormone pumped cows, living in their own shit don't taste worse. I get why someone who go to a local butcher for better meat. That doesn't mean that laundry list of silly accusations are true.

But earlier you said

Natural, organic, grain fed, pesticide free, no GMO. It's all junk. It's no healthier. Enjoy your miracle Quinoa.
I’ll eat my fat stupid pen raised salmon, and pay a fraction for it. It’s the same.

This was why I started arguing with you. Overall it is stupid argument. You want to eat Tyson chicken and I dont - to each his own.

[Harrison]

Hey if you want to pay more money to eat food that's less moderated than the rest, but says some flashy new buzzword on it, go for it.

Just don't go around telling people it's better for you because you have absolutely zero to back that statement with.

I'm sick of people spouting some untenable miracle diet that never existed until this modern age being healthier by imaginary measurements.

Vegetarians, vegans, all morons. They should shoot the next parent that forces this diet on a kid and they end up sick and/or dead because of it.

[Harrison]

"I only eat organic gmo-free gluten-free soy toad shit."

Good for you. I eat food and exercise. Enjoy your non-regulated goat food while you live a sedentary life and wither away slowly thinking your diet is superior to others. (it's not)

[Ganzo]

Harrison, don't you have to go organize a warehouse

[Zanchief]

It's not really healthier, it just tastes better. This is more an issue of mass production, and less an issue of GMOs, grain-fed, pen raised, pesticides, radiation, glutten, what ever. It's probably fattier, true, but it's no less "organic" or "natural".

Also, YAY! I agree with Harrison about something! It's been a while.

[leah]

Harrison, don't you have to go organize a warehouse

heeeeee

(sorry, this just made me laugh coming from ganzo.)

[Drem]

There are other problems tho, like the mass honey bee die-offs that were linked to insane pesticide cocktails found in most pollen due to gmo farming. There's also moral issues, like monsanto suing small farmers because monsanto's pollen blows into neighboring territory and the sue for copyright infringement

But the root of the issue is taste. And ganzo clarified all that already. People pay more for food because usually it tastes better than shit you buy from winco or whatever

[Zanchief]

Monsanto is just like any other business and if it wasn't for the hippy natural movement slandering and exaggerating everything they did people would never know about them. That pollen stuff it pretty bogus.

[Drem]

They spend $10 million a year and have a team of 75 people investigating patent infringement and "theft" and to date have sued organic farmers over 800 times

They aren't even a business. They're a biotech firm. And it's hard not to know about them when they supply engineered seeds for almost all of your country's staple crops

There used to be so many different kinds of tomatoes and other vegetables widely available that you wouldn't have to pay extra for what are now considered specialty varieties.

You're all about research. Do some. Monsanto (and Bayer) are shit