3rd debate

[Lyion]

the fact that this race is deadlocked is a testament to either a) how stupid the average american is, b) how effective the right-wing propaganda machine has become, or c) all of the above

i'm going with c

I agree with Kaemon, but forgive me if I'm not more 'specific'. You are actually one of the more reasonable types on this board, too.

Nuff said.

[Kaemon]

Come on Brin,

Do I really need to be specific? I can list a ton of stuff and it'll be countered right back. Let's just say

I know what I'm going to get, I have 4 years of experience with him. I and all whom I know are better off than 4 years ago. I know he's done as best he can and while he lies a good amount (as they all do), I don't see him doing SOOO many 180 degree flip-flops.

quote is 100% wrong. I'm not better off than I was four years ago, maybe for some, but not for me. Obama is as big as a flipflopper as Romney supposedly is. The difference to me is Obama had a chance to play President and didn't live up to my expectations and proved his flip floppiness. I'm going to now give my vote to Romney.

And before anyone says the econonmy has grown back, you're right it has. But guess what? It wasn't anything Obama did, The GDP has grown, but slowly and on it's own. Tikker could have been President and the GDP would have gone up as it has. In fact, I believe Tikker has been playing President since the GDP was slower this year than last year. When you bottom out, there's no place to go but up, it's all about how fast you can go up...not fast enough in my opinion.

Last 6 years I voted for what the candidates stood for, this year I'm acting as their employer and voting on how they performed. If you made the State/Country grow you get my vote. If underperformed or voted against my beliefs, you're out.

This year
Senate - Menendez (D)
Congress - Little (R)

Surrogate - Lynda Cleary (R)
Members of the Board of Chosen Freeholders - Inders(I) and Khan(R)

These are who I'm voting for based on performance, attendance and what I believe in.

Things need to change - The median salary in the tri-state area has stayed stagnent for 4+ years, while taxes and cost of goods are creeping up. My property taxes have gone up over $1500 in four years. Thats no good. Again, for me things need to change - from the bottom up.

And here's another belief of mine - I believe that one party needs to hold the presidency and the other party needs to hold the majority of both the house and senate. That's how we develop bipartisanship. Some of the better Presidents in our history worked well when the opposite party was in control both of both houses....whether they were Republican or Democrat.


*edited for spelling errors. I'm sure there's more, but fuck it.

[Menelvir]

>> but that being said, i still believe the average american is very very stupid

1. I'm not clear on what "average" American even means... An average as I understand it involves finding a sum and then dividing that sum by a count to get a single numerical figure from an aggregate

2. Even if there were such, I don't necessarily think they'd be stupid as much as highly predisposed to believe 'belief set x' over 'belief set y', and that hardly qualifies as stupid.

I'm more inclined to think:

a) people are predisposed to follow what they were taught early, and which is reinforced through their immediate experience from parents/peers, tend to believe what their closest associates believe, and don't have much (if any) inclination to question assumptions outside that very limited range of experiences

I'd also be inclined to think that a great many more people fall somewhere in the middle than ideologues at the fringes might assume.

[Narrock]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but a system of checks-and-balances creates gridlock. Either way we're fucked. So, it's all about who is going to fuck us less. And THAT will be Romney.

[Tossica]

Come on Brin,

Do I really need to be specific? I can list a ton of stuff and it'll be countered right back. Let's just say

I know what I'm going to get, I have 4 years of experience with him. I and all whom I know are better off than 4 years ago. I know he's done as best he can and while he lies a good amount (as they all do), I don't see him doing SOOO many 180 degree flip-flops.

quote is 100% wrong. I'm not better off than I was four years ago, maybe for some, but not for me. Obama is as big as a flipflopper as Romney supposedly is. The difference to me is Obama had a chance to play President and didn't live up to my expectations and proved his flip floppiness. I'm going to now give my vote to Romney.

And before anyone says the econonmy has grown back, you're right it has. But guess what? It wasn't anything Obama did, The GDP has grown, but slowly and on it's own. Tikker could have been President and the GDP would have gone up as it has. In fact, I believe Tikker has been playing President since the GDP was slower this year than last year. When you bottom out, there's no place to go but up, it's all about how fast you can go up...not fast enough in my opinion.

Last 6 years I voted for what the candidates stood for, this year I'm acting as their employer and voting on how they performed. If you made the State/Country grow you get my vote. If underperformed or voted against my beliefs, you're out.

This year
Senate - Menendez (D)
Congress - Little (R)

Surrogate - Lynda Cleary (R)
Members of the Board of Chosen Freeholders - Inders(I) and Khan(R)

These are who I'm voting for based on performance, attendance and what I believe in.

Things need to change - The median salary in the tri-state area has stayed stagnent for 4+ years, while taxes and cost of goods are creeping up. My property taxes have gone up over $1500 in four years. Thats no good. Again, for me things need to change - from the bottom up.

And here's another belief of mine - I believe that one party needs to hold the presidency and the other party needs to hold the majority of both the house and senate. That's how we develop bipartisanship. Some of the better Presidents in our history worked well when the opposite party was in control both of both houses....whether they were Republican or Democrat.


*edited for spelling errors. I'm sure there's more, but fuck it.

The truth is, you'd be voting against him even if he'd somehow turned back the clock 10 years and erased Bush's clusterfuck of a presidency.

Mitt Romney is a fucking joke. At one point the man actually made some sense and I thought to myself "You know, I could live with this guy" but that was almost 8 years ago and that Mitt is LONG gone. The same thing happened to McCain. I respected and agreed with a lot of the things he said but unfortunately, sane and competent people can't seem to win the Republican nomination anymore. They are forced to change in to some kind of right wing cartoon in order to appeal to the nations most ignorant in order to have any chance of being nominated.

Give me some common sense, fiscally conservative policy without all the fucking Jesus, "pro-life", war mongering, racist, homophobic, ignorant, bullshit and I'm all about it.

[brinstar]

YAAAAY MITT

nowhere did you point out how having Obama as president made your life worse, or how having Romney as president would improve it. all you said was "well i could get specific but basically i won't, so here's a bunch of fluff." but whatever, go ahead and cede that point i guess

here's the thing though. when you say this:

And before anyone says the econonmy has grown back, you're right it has. But guess what? It wasn't anything Obama did, The GDP has grown, but slowly and on it's own. Tikker could have been President and the GDP would have gone up as it has.

and then you say this:

Things need to change - The median salary in the tri-state area has stayed stagnent for 4+ years, while taxes and cost of goods are creeping up. My property taxes have gone up over $1500 in four years.

you are contradicting yourself. which is it? if you are right and the GDP grows on its own, what difference will having Romney in office make? why would a Romney presidency magically bestow upon the Oval Office the ability to stimulate the economy? how ridiculous. there's no basis for any of this. kind of like the butthurt about gas prices - in 2008 when gas prices peaked (yes, peaked) the hard right was up in arms about how it wasn't GWB's fault and that gas prices are determined by market forces and not executive policy, but in 2012 when Fucks Dudes turned into a 24/7 Romney commercial, all of a sudden they start wailing about how OMG THIS PRESIDENT HAS FAILED, GAS IS SOOOOO EXPENSIVE.

also reminds me of the second debate - at 7:55pm, Romney claimed that if he were elected he would help create 12 million new jobs, but at 8:50pm he flopped and angrily barked "GOVERNMENT DOESN'T CREATE JOBS, MR. PRESIDENT." (nevermind that numerous independent economists project that the economy will add 12 million jobs in the next 4 years REGARDLESS of who wins). and you're calling Obama a flipflopper? LOL

this kind of cognitive dissonance is the main hallmark of the modern GOP, which apparently no longer feels any sort of compulsion to square its political platform with actual demonstrable facts (cf Todd Akin's brilliant statements about the female body). it's total fucking garbage, that, coupled with the party's ever-intensifying reliance on affluent old white men in a country steadily growing poorer and less white, will lead to its demise within the next 20 years. need proof? look at the "Ron Paul Revolution" - or better yet, RP's ballsier contemporary, Gary Johnson. GOP voters with brains are jumping over to the Good Ship Libertarian, where sanity and actual fiscal responsibility can coexist peacefully. soon, the GOP will be nothing but a small roving pack of Mindias, howling gibberish in the wilderness of electoral irrelevance

1. I'm not clear on what "average" American even means... An average as I understand it involves finding a sum and then dividing that sum by a count to get a single numerical figure from an aggregate

2. Even if there were such, I don't necessarily think they'd be stupid as much as highly predisposed to believe 'belief set x' over 'belief set y', and that hardly qualifies as stupid.

I'm more inclined to think:

a) people are predisposed to follow what they were taught early, and which is reinforced through their immediate experience from parents/peers, tend to believe what their closest associates believe, and don't have much (if any) inclination to question assumptions outside that very limited range of experiences

I'd also be inclined to think that a great many more people fall somewhere in the middle than ideologues at the fringes might assume.

1. that is precisely what i mean. if you take the intelligence level of every American and plot it on a graph, you will more or less have a bell curve. the value represented by the tippy-top of the peak in the middle... is still too stupid.

2. technically you are correct, but the key here is that i am actually including "failure to acquire critical thinking skills and failure to use those skills to challenge preconceptions" under the larger umbrella of stupid. it's SO MUCH WORK to try and figure out nuances of public policy and suss out which candidates are sellout pieces of shit and which candidates actually want to serve the public; it's far easier to just roll over, take corporate-owned news channels at their word, vote the way they've always voted, and never ask themselves why.

[brinstar]

old McCain

i agree. i remember numerous times during the early days of GWB's reign of error i thought "ugh why couldn't we get a McCain/Hagel ticket instead"

but there's no way 2000-era McCain/Hagel could win a nomination in the 2012 GOP asylum, they'd last about as long as Huntsman ;\

[ClakarEQ]

Brin, /bow, thank you. I had that same message typed up to kaemon and then said "fuck it" I just can't do this again lol.

I know you said you're not voting Obama and I hear that, and frankly Jill Stein was nearly 100% in alignment of my "WhoIdSideWith" or whatever. For me, a vote for anyone but those that can win, is a vote wasted. That is "me" though, I'm very logic driven, if then else is my recurring thought nearly every min of my day :p. My logic, while flawed, tells me a vote not cast for Obama carries the impact of a vote FOR Mitt as only one of the two will win. Your vote, while ultimately counted, has zero impact outside of a message sent to people who won't listen (if that made sense ). So while my heart says Jill, my brain says Obama. Not dissin you or whatever, I know you will do what you want, and you should. Perhaps it is my self-justification to go against my heart.

If Mitt were to win, and I had voted Jill, who ends up the loser?

The sacrifice of the few far outweigh the sacrifice of the many.

I would say we're all talking about the lesser of evils, a required evil, etc.

[Kaemon]

you are contradicting yourself. which is it? if you are right and the GDP grows on its own, what difference will having Romney in office make? why would a Romney presidency magically bestow upon the Oval Office the ability to stimulate the economy?

How am I contradicting myself? On one hand I said the GDP is creeping up slowly, I also stated it took a step backwards this year compared to last. I want someone else to take a crack at it.

On the other hand, Median salaries have been stagnant, if you're lucky enough to have a job, you're shit out of luck getting a raise or promotion to keep up with the cost of living. Where am I contradicting myself? And where the fuck did I mention "OMG OIL DERP DERP DERP!!!"

nowhere did you point out how having Obama as president made your life worse

What part of cost of living is ever so going up and my property taxes have increased $1500 in the past 4 years did you not understand? What do you do? Just skim over everything and pick out what you think is best to pick apart and place little all over it with a DERP at the end instead of reading everything else?

I'm a restaurant manager, when you come into my restaurant, I expect you to have a certain experience when you come through my doors. With that experience that hopefully I've set with my staff, you'll have a belief that it was great coming into my restaurant. With that belief that you have now of Kaemon's restaurant, your action should be that you'll frequent my restaurant more often. The result = more $$ for me and a good place to eat for you. If you have a bad experience, it all goes to shit.

For me, President Obama has set the wrong experience, which gave me the belief he wasn't the man for the job after all, my action is I will not vote for him and hopefully the result will be he's been replaced on 11/8.

[Kaemon]

this kind of cognitive dissonance is the main hallmark of the modern GOP, which apparently no longer feels any sort of compulsion to square its political platform with actual demonstrable facts (cf Todd Akin's brilliant statements about the female body). it's total fucking garbage, that, coupled with the party's ever-intensifying reliance on affluent old white men in a country steadily growing poorer and less white, will lead to its demise within the next 20 years. need proof? look at the "Ron Paul Revolution" - or better yet, RP's ballsier contemporary, Gary Johnson. GOP voters with brains are jumping over to the Good Ship Libertarian, where sanity and actual fiscal responsibility can coexist peacefully. soon, the GOP will be nothing but a small roving pack of Mindias, howling gibberish in the wilderness of electoral irrelevance

As a moderate conservative. I'm all for that.

Brin, /bow, thank you. I had that same message typed up to kaemon and then said "fuck it" I just can't do this again lol.

I know you said you're not voting Obama and I hear that, and frankly Jill Stein was nearly 100% in alignment of my "WhoIdSideWith" or whatever. For me, a vote for anyone but those that can win, is a vote wasted. That is "me" though, I'm very logic driven, if then else is my recurring thought nearly every min of my day :p. My logic, while flawed, tells me a vote not cast for Obama carries the impact of a vote FOR Mitt as only one of the two will win. Your vote, while ultimately counted, has zero impact outside of a message sent to people who won't listen (if that made sense ). So while my heart says Jill, my brain says Obama. Not dissin you or whatever, I know you will do what you want, and you should. Perhaps it is my self-justification to go against my heart.

If Mitt were to win, and I had voted Jill, who ends up the loser?

The sacrifice of the few far outweigh the sacrifice of the many.

I would say we're all talking about the lesser of evils, a required evil, etc.

Gary Johnson would have been the guy I'd vote for but I'm at the opposite spectrum, instead I'll vote for Romney.

The truth is, you'd be voting against him even if he'd somehow turned back the clock 10 years and erased Bush's clusterfuck of a presidency.

Sound's like you're calling me a racist, that's pretty bush league.

[Zanchief]

How am I contradicting myself?

You said the economy has nothing to do with the President, then said the President failed to improve the economy.

[Zanchief]

this kind of cognitive dissonance is the main hallmark of the modern GOP, which apparently no longer feels any sort of compulsion to square its political platform with actual demonstrable facts (cf Todd Akin's brilliant statements about the female body). it's total fucking garbage, that, coupled with the party's ever-intensifying reliance on affluent old white men in a country steadily growing poorer and less white, will lead to its demise within the next 20 years. need proof? look at the "Ron Paul Revolution" - or better yet, RP's ballsier contemporary, Gary Johnson. GOP voters with brains are jumping over to the Good Ship Libertarian, where sanity and actual fiscal responsibility can coexist peacefully. soon, the GOP will be nothing but a small roving pack of Mindias, howling gibberish in the wilderness of electoral irrelevance.

This is the problem right here. A rightwing candidate can't be elected without those bible-humping, God fearing morons.

Here's my TV analogy. Obama is like The Big Bang Theory. Only really stupid people love that show, but it has a broad appeal and they keep the jokes simple so tons of people watch it. If they made intelligent jokes, people would get angry that it's pretentious. Romney is Criminal Minds. It's dumb as hell and only old white people watch it. It doesn't offend anyone and most educated people don't get the appeal, but plenty of people watch it. Game Of Thrones, Louis, Homeland, those shows will never be top rated. People are just too stupid. Elections are the same way. You think Obama really wants to be this centrist? He just has to act dumb as hell. Otherwise no one would vote for him. Imagine a conservative who didn't give a shit about meaningless issues like God, or abortions, or drugs? Never happen. No one would watch it. I hear NCIS might have a new spinoff though. Dancing With the Stars is just around the corner. These are the voters...

[ClakarEQ]

The truth is, you'd be voting against him even if he'd somehow turned back the clock 10 years and erased Bush's clusterfuck of a presidency.

Sound's like you're calling me a racist, that's pretty bush league.

It tends to go with the party. Just recently (like 1-2 days ago) they did it again. Brought up race because Colin Powell thinks Obama is a better man for the job. What did the top GOP speech writer / inside man say about this, "well you know, they're both black".

The guy even saying it makes him a racist, and this is Mitts right hand guy. You know how it goes, birds of a feather . . .

Ninja'd by Zan.

Zan, you're missing it actually. The Dems while minor shifts have taken place, are still about the same over decades. The GOP though, even amongst themselves admit it, especially over the last decade, have shifted WAY right. The tea party was the death card on the GOP.

[Zanchief]

The thing about the left is they win on every single "wedge issue" (as Lyion calls them), factually speaking of course. So right off the bat, conservatism is in the whole, logic-wise. In order to buy into the ideology, you need to take that load right in the face. After that, you'll buy into anything. Remove those issues, you know the dozen or so issues that are only argued to keep knuckledraggers in the voting booth, and I think the two sides wouldn't be that far apart. This happened in Canada for a while. There was a far right party that deflected all the morons. Moderate Conservatives died. Liberals were unstoppable for more then a decade. You can't win an election without stupid people. This makes both candidates look rotten. This is why people choose the lesser of two evils.

[Tossica]

Sound's like you're calling me a racist, that's pretty bush league.

Wrong. I'm saying your mind was made up from day 1 of his presidency. You never intended on supporting him in any way. Anyone that can look back on this last 4 years and call it a complete failure is delusional. Were there failures? Yeah. Was there some good done? Yeah. Is he the worst president ever? Fuck no. Is he the best? Fuck no.

4 more years of Obama would mean 4 more years of growth, no matter what. You said so yourself. You ADMIT growth yet are willing to hand the keys right back to the group that we JUST spent 4 years recovering from.

Where's the logic?

I think Obama's second term will be different than his first in that he won't care about being reelected and will push some things through that he couldn't in his first term. I look forward to 4 more years of reason, sensibility, diplomacy and progress.

[Harrison]

this kind of cognitive dissonance is the main hallmark of the modern GOP, which apparently no longer feels any sort of compulsion to square its political platform with actual demonstrable facts (cf Todd Akin's brilliant statements about the female body). it's total fucking garbage, that, coupled with the party's ever-intensifying reliance on affluent old white men in a country steadily growing poorer and less white, will lead to its demise within the next 20 years. need proof? look at the "Ron Paul Revolution" - or better yet, RP's ballsier contemporary, Gary Johnson. GOP voters with brains are jumping over to the Good Ship Libertarian, where sanity and actual fiscal responsibility can coexist peacefully. soon, the GOP will be nothing but a small roving pack of Mindias, howling gibberish in the wilderness of electoral irrelevance.

This is the problem right here. A rightwing candidate can't be elected without those bible-humping, God fearing morons.

Here's my TV analogy. Obama is like The Big Bang Theory. Only really stupid people love that show, but it has a broad appeal and they keep the jokes simple so tons of people watch it. If they made intelligent jokes, people would get angry that it's pretentious. Romney is Criminal Minds. It's dumb as hell and only old white people watch it. It doesn't offend anyone and most educated people don't get the appeal, but plenty of people watch it. Game Of Thrones, Louis, Homeland, those shows will never be top rated. People are just too stupid. Elections are the same way. You think Obama really wants to be this centrist? He just has to act dumb as hell. Otherwise no one would vote for him. Imagine a conservative who didn't give a shit about meaningless issues like God, or abortions, or drugs? Never happen. No one would watch it. I hear NCIS might have a new spinoff though. Dancing With the Stars is just around the corner. These are the voters...

Game of Thrones, Louis, and Homeland did pretty amazingly awards-wise, didn't they?

(I love all three, btw. I just started Homeland last week.)

You should have used Firefly in your argument. Fuck you for dissing The Big Bang Theory, too.

[Arlos]

One random question: What in hell does the president of the US have to do with local property taxes?

Blaming him for that is like blaming him because your cousin got gout or something else equally nonsensical.

If your property taxes have gone up, blame your local or state politicians. The federal government had absolutely nothing to do with it.

-Arlos

[Tossica]

One random question: What in hell does the president of the US have to do with local property taxes?

Blaming him for that is like blaming him because your cousin got gout or something else equally nonsensical.

If your property taxes have gone up, blame your local or state politicians. The federal government had absolutely nothing to do with it.

-Arlos

All of the people screaming about spending cuts and "fiscal responsibility" sure sing a different song when their local governments have to raise taxes to compensate for lost federal funding.

[Harrison]

So, the answer to that is to keep spending our country into oblivion?

Good plan.

[brinstar]

How am I contradicting myself? On one hand I said the GDP is creeping up slowly, I also stated it took a step backwards this year compared to last. I want someone else to take a crack at it.

On the other hand, Median salaries have been stagnant, if you're lucky enough to have a job, you're shit out of luck getting a raise or promotion to keep up with the cost of living. Where am I contradicting myself? And where the fuck did I mention "OMG OIL DERP DERP DERP!!!"

it has been explained by other posters already. you are arguing that the executive branch cannot affect the economy, but you are blaming the president for poor growth. and if you'd read what i wrote more carefully, you'd know that the OIL DERP DERP section was simply a parallel i drew to point out other ways in which conservatives gleefully practice just this same type of self-contradiction and cognitive dissonance (which is defined as believing in two separate and contradictory ideas). nowhere did i accuse you of saying anything about oil.

What part of cost of living is ever so going up and my property taxes have increased $1500 in the past 4 years did you not understand? What do you do? Just skim over everything and pick out what you think is best to pick apart and place little all over it with a DERP at the end instead of reading everything else?

again, i was beaten to the punch - but unless you're seriously arguing that the President of the United States controls YOUR property taxes, you're just projecting your local politicians' failures up the chain. the real lesson here is that this ill-conceived idea of "austerity" (which is the crown jewel in the overarching "shrink the government" agenda) causes exactly this to happen. the federal budget shrinks, states get less money, then counties/cities get less money, and in order to avoid serious cuts in public utilities and law enforcement, property taxes go up.

it's no different here in Nebraska - the "shrink the govt" crowd won't do anything to get more revenue for fear of public backlash, so over time our state budget surplus turned into a deficit. so what does our half-baked GOP toadie governor do? proposes a $327M tax cut on top of a $347M budget deficit. fucking idiot. the senate managed to whittle it down to less than half that size (which the Gov threw a big tantrum about) but in the end we are still taking a big steamy dump on our own bed. as a result, there is now even less state money coming into communities, so communities are forced to raise property taxes so we can still afford things like schools, roads, and public safety departments.

do you see what i'm getting at? shit like this is happening everywhere, and it's the GOP's fault. what's worse, anytime a politician tries to practice ACTUAL fiscal responsibility and squeeze a tiny bit of revenue, they are immediately and publicly vilified for trying to raise taxes on hard-working americans. the end result is that we have restaurant managers whose LOCAL property taxes go up, and they are so spun by the narrative that they believe it's the POTUS's fault. utter nonsense.

I'm a restaurant manager, when you come into my restaurant, I expect you to have a certain experience when you come through my doors. With that experience that hopefully I've set with my staff, you'll have a belief that it was great coming into my restaurant. With that belief that you have now of Kaemon's restaurant, your action should be that you'll frequent my restaurant more often. The result = more $$ for me and a good place to eat for you. If you have a bad experience, it all goes to shit.

For me, President Obama has set the wrong experience, which gave me the belief he wasn't the man for the job after all, my action is I will not vote for him and hopefully the result will be he's been replaced on 11/8.

aside from bellyaching about your local property taxes and the cost of living (which goes up no matter who's in office, duh), you stiiiiiiiiiiiill haven't given us any specific reason why you think obama has made your life worse, or how mitt would make it better.

but by all means, go vote for mitt on 11/8

[brinstar]

Game of Thrones, Louis, and Homeland did pretty amazingly awards-wise, didn't they?

(I love all three, btw. I just started Homeland last week.)

You should have used Firefly in your argument. Fuck you for dissing The Big Bang Theory, too.

i think zan's point is that critical acclaim doesn't always translate into widespread popularity, and vice versa. both candidates have to try to appeal to as many voters as possible, so during the campaign they keep things simple, easy to grasp, and centrist.

sidenote: i don't watch BBT but i have heard it referred to as "nerd blackface" - i.e. the things they talk/joke about aren't actually things REAL nerds talk/joke about, they are things "normal" people THINK nerds talk/joke about - ergo why it has mainstream appeal

[Zanchief]

Exactly. You need to bring in as many people as possible, even if those people are stupid (Mindia).

[ClakarEQ]

So, the answer to that is to keep spending our country into oblivion?

Good plan.

That is a requirement. The debt is not going to go down anytime soon, get over it. It won't go down regardless of who is in office.

Not one financial analyst claims the "fix" to what we're going through is to cut spending, not one. Anyone that claims cutting spending is the "right thing" is going to push the country faster into a collapse. You MUST spend your way out of a mess like this, it is the only way. The analogy of you have to spend money to make money just like folks do all the time. Even money they don't have.

Also, how do you know that all the unbudgeted cash we're throwing over to wars won't be partially redirected to level out the increase is spend?

[Reynaldo]

So what's all this about Somalis being shipped into Ohio (pardon the pun) to vote Democrat?

[ClakarEQ]

FWIW the guys whom crunch the numbers on the electoral college have like a 75% margin going to POTUS. When they were pushed on the POLS the public is seeing they said, that is all fine an nice but they don't often come into play re: the electoral.

They even said this year maybe like the bush gore gig where Obama loses the majority vote but wins the electoral.