The Fiscal Cliff

[Narrock]

Yup, be prepared folks, because your beloved obummer and the democrat-controlled Senate, are going to push us over it and cause a deep recession. John Boehner (God bless him) made it abundantly clear to obummer that he's ready for talks about bringing revenues to the table, but NOT by raising taxes on "the rich" and businesses. Boehner also made it absolutely clear that the only way new revenues can be brought to the table is by obummer reducing his spending. Bottom line: When the economy collapses, you will have nobody to blame but obummer and the pig-headed democrat-controlled senate. GET YOUR FUCKING SPENDING UNDER CONTROL, OBUMMER, OR YOU WILL FUCK ALL OF US!.

[ClakarEQ]

No, sorry, he is doing what is required and the GOP cock blockers will pay for it in the end. You can't cock block for another 4 year.

[Tossica]

Obama offered to cut $2 in spending for every $1 in raised taxes on the rich but the Retardlicans refused.

[Arlos]

Actually, Tossica, Obama previously offered a spending package that featured 5-10 dollars of cuts for every 1 dollar of revenue increases. I'd call that offering reducing spending in return for new revenues. The GOP turned it down, though, because they care more about keeping Grover Norquist happy than doing what is right for the country.

Here's what I predict will happen: The GOP will stall right up until the deadline. The Democrats will happily let the Bush tax cuts and the like expire, then on the very next day offer a package of "new" tax cuts that include all the current tax cuts, except for tax cuts on the wealthy, and with some closed loopholes. This package would be worded to be retroactive back to the moment the old tax cuts expired, so that if they are passed, no one will be out any extra money at all, EXCEPT the super-rich and those abusing loopholes. Would the GOP really turn down such a package, and be in the position of denying 95%+ of the country a tax cut because they don't want the super-rich to pay the same rates they did under Clinton?

-Arlos

[Tossica]

My bad. Seems like a reasonable approach to me.

[Reynaldo]

I'm a REP and I lean right on a LOT of the issues but I do have to say I'm in favor of the higher taxes on the rich.

I find it absurd that I can bust my tail for 40-50 hours a week for 50k or whatever and joe bank CEO is pulling down 15 mil a year if not more.

I definitely believe that everyone makes their own bed to an extent and I know the REP view is that if you don't like the other guy making that much, then get off your butt and improve yourself until you're making that much. But I'd wager for every 1 self made millionaire, there are 100 that were born into the right situation for it regardless of how hard you work.

You obviously don't NEED that much money to live comfortably so i certainly have no problem with them being hit harder on taxes to help out the people (like me and all of you) that bust our asses for 20k-100k a year to pay their outlandish salaries.

[Xaiveir]

Actually, Tossica, Obama previously offered a spending package that featured 5-10 dollars of cuts for every 1 dollar of revenue increases. I'd call that offering reducing spending in return for new revenues. The GOP turned it down, though, because they care more about keeping Grover Norquist happy than doing what is right for the country.

Here's what I predict will happen: The GOP will stall right up until the deadline. The Democrats will happily let the Bush tax cuts and the like expire, then on the very next day offer a package of "new" tax cuts that include all the current tax cuts, except for tax cuts on the wealthy, and with some closed loopholes. This package would be worded to be retroactive back to the moment the old tax cuts expired, so that if they are passed, no one will be out any extra money at all, EXCEPT the super-rich and those abusing loopholes. Would the GOP really turn down such a package, and be in the position of denying 95%+ of the country a tax cut because they don't want the super-rich to pay the same rates they did under Clinton?

-Arlos

This was my exact thinking on this. Personally, like Reynoldo i do tend to lean right on a lot of issues, but letting the Bush era tax cuts expire on the rich, while extending the middle class tax cuts is something that needs to happen, and ultimately i feel will happen. The question is just how far are republicans going to take it (how much damage with be caused) before giving in to this. I think everyone, on both sides of the political fence need to realize that no matter how much they bitch and whine, Obama is president, like it or not. The country is obviously still not out of the woods yet (as it pertains to the recession), so Instead of personal attacks, undermining, and stone walling the other side, i HOPE that these things are set aside for the betterment of the county.

Ultimately, i believe that this will be one helluva litmus test of how the next 4 (or 2) years with go. If a deal can be reached in a decent amount of time, lowering the fears of the fiscal cliff, i think this will go a long way in healing the nation, regardless of party color.

[brinstar]

fact: the budget deficit has been shrinking for several years

[Narrock]

I'm all for reducing some loopholes and deductions. That would be a major contribution by the republicans. But obummer's "raising taxes on the rich" to pay for his stupid programs is pure bullshit and goes against what makes America great. Obummer truly is the new Robin Hood type criminal.

[Arlos]

Uhhhh, the Rich have ALWAYS paid a higher % of taxes compared to everyone else, for basically as long as we've had an income tax in this country.

You know the 1950s, which is what the republicans seem to always want to get back to? You know what the top tax rate was then? 91%. And yet you're saying that taking them to 39% is destroying America and what made us great? Sorry man, but that does not compute...

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Yes what made america great was the robber baron era. Sooner we can get back to everyone knwing they place the better off we will be.

[Narrock]

Uhhhh, the Rich have ALWAYS paid a higher % of taxes compared to everyone else, for basically as long as we've had an income tax in this country.

Well, at least you got THAT part right. That being said, how is it fair to raise it even higher? That's punishing success, and forcing communism on a certain socio-economic group, who contribute much more than just paying more taxes... they keep Americans employed and move industry along. And you support the idea of taxing them even more. THAT doesn't compute.

[Arlos]

My point is that they used to be much, much, MUCH higher, and yet this country was still an economic powerhouse. Also, I wanted to point out that they WERE taxed like that before. So, saying that raising their tax rate to 39% (instead of 91%) somehow destroys the idea of America, is communist, or anything like that makes absolutely no sense, since America wasn't destroyed in the 50s, we weren't communist then, etc. Hell, they had the 39% during Clinton, and the economy was MUCH MUCH better off then. So how do you know that raising those rates won't help us get back there? Hell, under your sainted Reagan the top rate was 50%. You going to call HIM a communist for having the top tax rate so high?

It's not punishing success, it's realizing the fact that as a society, we've all got to work together to succeed, and those who are best able to contribute financially need to do so. Also, how does that kill jobs? BUSINESSES aren't being taxed more, just INDIVIDUALS. It's businesses that supply the jobs. The salary some investment banker brings home doesn't. If they were calling on raising the top tax bracket for businesses, you might begin to have a real argument. No one is calling for such an increase, though.

-Arlos

[brinstar]

ok first of all

yadda yadda reducing loopholes and deductions herp derpity derp raising taxes on the rich bork bork

how do you not see these are indistinguishable to the pocketbooks of rich people, and that literally the only difference is semantic in nature?

it's like saying EW GROSS I HATE TOMAHTOES but GODDAMN I LOVE ME SOME TOMAYTOES - it's the same goddamn thing, you idiot


and second of all

That being said, how is it fair to raise it even higher?

the fuck do you get off using the phrase "even higher"? are you not aware of reality? aside from a brief blip during Bush 41 (which he thankfully corrected), the income tax rates for the top bracket have not been this low since the 1920s. hmmm, 25% income tax rates on the rich in the 1920s... tell me, how did that work out? did America see economic growth and prosperity? or did our nation suffer complete devastation from a Depression so bad we fucking use a capital D?

nevermind, you can't answer that without destroying your argument. how about answering this: is there a "too low"? it's 35% now - should it be 20%? 10%? or would you rather we just zero out the income tax rate for anyone making over $250k/yr and let them off the hook altogether? you're such a sock puppet bitch

[Nusk]

the idea that lowering taxes on the rich creates jobs is ridiculous.


Assume that I am the owner of a retail business, and a person of authority tells me this.

"I want to make you a deal. You do not have to pay any taxes on anything. No taxes on your property, no taxes on your business inventory, no taxes period. Payroll, unemployment, workman's comp, FICA — no taxes on anything. Then my question to you is this. Will you hire additional help?"

"No, I don't need additional employees. I have very good people who adequately take care of my business. If my business grows, then I may consider hiring, but not at the present."

"Well, how about giving a wage increase to your help."

"I feel that I am paying a favorable wage along with what I see in the community. My employees can participate in a 401(k), I pay part of their health insurance, and they accumulate vacation time also."

trickle down NEVER worked, not once.

[leah]

well said.

[Lyion]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/opinion/j ... hpt=hp_bn7

Editor's note: Bobby Jindal, a Republican, is governor of Louisiana.
(CNN) -- In the aftermath of the presidential election, Republicans have been inundated with advice to moderate, equivocate, and even abandon their core principles as a necessary prerequisite for winning future elections. That is absurd. America already has one liberal political party; there is no need for another one.

Make no mistake: Despite losing an election, conservative ideals still hold true. Government spending still does not grow our economy. American weakness on the world stage still does not lead to peace. Higher taxes still does not create prosperity for all. And, more government still does not grow jobs.

The Republican party does have a lot of work to do. But changing our principles is not a winning strategy. We need to modernize, not moderate. Here are seven lessons Republicans should learn in order to move forward.

1. Stop looking backward. We have to boldly show what the future can look like with the free market policies that we believe in. Conservative ideals are aspirational, and our country is aspirational.

2. Compete for every single vote. The 47% and the 53%. And any other combination of numbers that adds up to 100 percent. President Barack Obama and the Democrats can continue trying to divide America into groups of warring communities with competing interests, but we will have none of it. We are going after every vote as we try to unite all Americans.

3. Reject identity politics. The old notion that ours should be a colorblind society is the right one, and we should pursue that with vigor. Identity politics is corrosive to the great American melting pot and we reject it. We will treat all people as individuals rather than as members of special interest groups.

4. Stop being the stupid party. It's time for a new Republican party that talks like adults. It's time for us to articulate our plans and visions for America in real terms. We had a number of Republicans damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. Enough of that.

5. Stop insulting the intelligence of voters. We need to trust the smarts of the American people. We have to stop dumbing down our ideas and stop reducing everything to mindless slogans and tag lines for 30-second ads. We must be willing to provide details in describing our views.

6. Quit "big." We are not the party of big business, big banks, big Wall Street bailouts, big corporate loopholes, or big anything. We must not be the party that simply protects the well off so they can keep their toys. We have to be the party that shows all Americans how they can thrive. We are the party whose ideas will help the middle class, and help more folks join the middle class. We are a populist party and need to make that clear.

7. Focus on people, not government. We must stop competing with Democrats for the job of "Government Manager," and come up with ideas that can unleash the dynamic abilities of the American people. We need to lead the way with policies that can create prosperity. We believe in organic solutions, not big government solutions. We need a bottom-up government that fits the digital age. Right now we have an outdated centralized government trying to manage a decentralized economy.

There are many challenges facing our country. For example, our education system seems to be in the Stone Age and miserably outdated. It's time to update traditional public schools, charter schools, home schools, online schools and parochial schools. Let the dollars follow the child instead of forcing the child to follow the dollars, so that every child has the opportunity to attain an education.
Our energy policy is outdated as well, stuck in old ideological arguments which harm our ability to create a more sustainable future where energy independence can actually be achieved. We have to change that.

We need an equal opportunity society, one in which government does not see its job as picking winners and losers. Where do you go if you want special favors? Government. Where do you go if you want a tax break? Government. Where do you go if you want a handout? Government. This must stop. Our government must pursue a level playing field. At present, government is the un-leveler of the playing field.

This is a pathway forward for the Republican party, one that honors our principles, the American people, and also, will help us win elections.

[Zanchief]

3. Reject identity politics. The old notion that ours should be a colorblind society is the right one, and we should pursue that with vigor. Identity politics is corrosive to the great American melting pot and we reject it. We will treat all people as individuals rather than as members of special interest groups.

4. Stop being the stupid party. It's time for a new Republican party that talks like adults. It's time for us to articulate our plans and visions for America in real terms. We had a number of Republicans damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. Enough of that.

5. Stop insulting the intelligence of voters. We need to trust the smarts of the American people. We have to stop dumbing down our ideas and stop reducing everything to mindless slogans and tag lines for 30-second ads. We must be willing to provide details in describing our views.

Fixing these three will help immensely and they have nothing to do with politics.

[Tossica]

Too bad most Republicans are stupid. The reason the Republican party has dumbed themselves down so much is because their base are a bunch of fucking retards. Sad but true. There's about 30% of the base that can actually articulate why they are conservative and understand what it means in a political context. The rest hate niggers, fags and people more educated then them.

[Harrison]

Than them*

Lol oh the irony in that sentence

[Tossica]

Oh burn.

[Tossica]

Eat shit, Finawin. Seriously.

[Spazz]

Thats right dont take his shit. Fuck you buddy

chair shots for everyone




7 of em
thats whats up

[Jay]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/15/opinion/jindal-gop-election/?hpt=hp_bn7

Editor's note: Bobby Jindal, a Republican, is governor of Louisiana.
(CNN) -- In the aftermath of the presidential election, Republicans have been inundated with advice to moderate, equivocate, and even abandon their core principles as a necessary prerequisite for winning future elections. That is absurd. America already has one liberal political party; there is no need for another one.

Make no mistake: Despite losing an election, conservative ideals still hold true. Government spending still does not grow our economy. American weakness on the world stage still does not lead to peace. Higher taxes still does not create prosperity for all. And, more government still does not grow jobs.

The Republican party does have a lot of work to do. But changing our principles is not a winning strategy. We need to modernize, not moderate. Here are seven lessons Republicans should learn in order to move forward.

1. Stop looking backward. We have to boldly show what the future can look like with the free market policies that we believe in. Conservative ideals are aspirational, and our country is aspirational.

2. Compete for every single vote. The 47% and the 53%. And any other combination of numbers that adds up to 100 percent. President Barack Obama and the Democrats can continue trying to divide America into groups of warring communities with competing interests, but we will have none of it. We are going after every vote as we try to unite all Americans.

3. Reject identity politics. The old notion that ours should be a colorblind society is the right one, and we should pursue that with vigor. Identity politics is corrosive to the great American melting pot and we reject it. We will treat all people as individuals rather than as members of special interest groups.

4. Stop being the stupid party. It's time for a new Republican party that talks like adults. It's time for us to articulate our plans and visions for America in real terms. We had a number of Republicans damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. Enough of that.

5. Stop insulting the intelligence of voters. We need to trust the smarts of the American people. We have to stop dumbing down our ideas and stop reducing everything to mindless slogans and tag lines for 30-second ads. We must be willing to provide details in describing our views.

6. Quit "big." We are not the party of big business, big banks, big Wall Street bailouts, big corporate loopholes, or big anything. We must not be the party that simply protects the well off so they can keep their toys. We have to be the party that shows all Americans how they can thrive. We are the party whose ideas will help the middle class, and help more folks join the middle class. We are a populist party and need to make that clear.

7. Focus on people, not government. We must stop competing with Democrats for the job of "Government Manager," and come up with ideas that can unleash the dynamic abilities of the American people. We need to lead the way with policies that can create prosperity. We believe in organic solutions, not big government solutions. We need a bottom-up government that fits the digital age. Right now we have an outdated centralized government trying to manage a decentralized economy.

There are many challenges facing our country. For example, our education system seems to be in the Stone Age and miserably outdated. It's time to update traditional public schools, charter schools, home schools, online schools and parochial schools. Let the dollars follow the child instead of forcing the child to follow the dollars, so that every child has the opportunity to attain an education.
Our energy policy is outdated as well, stuck in old ideological arguments which harm our ability to create a more sustainable future where energy independence can actually be achieved. We have to change that.

We need an equal opportunity society, one in which government does not see its job as picking winners and losers. Where do you go if you want special favors? Government. Where do you go if you want a tax break? Government. Where do you go if you want a handout? Government. This must stop. Our government must pursue a level playing field. At present, government is the un-leveler of the playing field.

This is a pathway forward for the Republican party, one that honors our principles, the American people, and also, will help us win elections.

8. Never ever using the word "rape" ever again. I mean never. NEVER.

[Kaemon]

I think that falls under 4.