Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

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Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Arlos » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Not sure I buy it, but does make you go hmmm....


The 2012 presidential election kind of looked rigged from the get-go.

Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted had installed an untested, unapproved software patch for ballot counting just a week before the election. When various groups protested to the courts, Husted responded that the software patch ran outside of the federally-approved voting machinery. Therefore, it did not need testing and did not to be reviewed by the state election commission. The courts went along with him.

A few days later, the international hacker group Anonymous released a video. In it Anonymous warned that they were monitoring all the computers of Fox News analyst and Republican chief fundraiser Karl Rove. Anonymous warned Rove personally to not interfere with the election results.

That made sense. This was because Craig Unger warned Americans about the possibility of electioneering in his book, Boss Rove. That is where Unger argued that Rove’s software hackers hijacked the Ohio election results at 11:14 pm EST in 2004. That was when the Ohio vote-tallying computers all went offline. When they came back up, the vote counters had switched thousands of votes in favor of Senator John Kerry to President George W. Bush’s column.

Then, during election night in 2012, it was suddenly Unger’s story all over again—almost. This time the Ohio, statewide, vote-tallying computers went down at 11:13 pm EST. That was thirteen minutes after voter analyst Karl Rove had begun to throw his 30-minute tantrum live on Fox News. Rove was angry that the Fox analysts had called the Ohio election in favor of President Obama at 11:00 pm EST. During his rant, Rove went into a detailed analysis about how that part of the yet uncounted voter—25%—would throw the election to Romney. And then, bingo—

The Ohio computers went down in the middle of Rove’s rant. But when they came back up there was no change in the vote. Obama still led. Rove looked even more perplexed. He then argued for another 15 minutes that Romney could still win Ohio. Finally, Rove conceded that perhaps Romney might lose the state.

Then, two days after the 2012 election, Anonymous released another video. The hackers explained that they had inserted a firewall into Secretary of State Husted’s software patch. That had stopped the Ohio election counters from using it. The hackers said that they had analyzed the patch and that it would have flip-flopped the vote in the same counties that Karl Rove, of Fox, had argued would eventually swing the Ohio election to Romney.

Interesting, on election night, when the Ohio computers came back online, the vote tallying went on without the patch, and Obama won.

This whole thing might mean that the patch should be subpoenaed into court and examined for its potential to rig an election—especially since no one dared to complain that it did not work. And the counting kept on going, anyway, unquestioned. But that’s not all.

Anonymous claims that Mitt Romney’s Orca program was a fake, also. It was not meant to be used as a get-out-the-vote program as stated by the Romney campaign. Rather, it was meant to be used to divert and flip flop the vote in two other states, Florida and Virginia. Like Ohio, both states have Republican Secretaries of state who resolve voting issues. Makes you wonder, right? But there is more.

Mitt Romney was so sure of winning that he did not have anyone prepare a concession speech for him ahead of time. If that sounds a little suspicious, consider this. The election had already been called a week earlier in Obama’s favor by the best known poll analyst in the U.S., Nate Silver.

There are a dozen reports concerning these events. The Humboldt Sentinel, in its online version, ran a video showing talk radio host Thom Hartmann’s report on Rove’s supposed election rigging. The Drudge Report also covered it in its online version. What is more, The Daily Kos reported on this story. Yet most all of the major media won’t touch this story about Anonymous and Karl Rove. That is because it contradicts what Americans believe about their elections—that they are generally just and fair.

Congress also would have to be pushed pretty hard before it ever touches the story. As far as the Congress is concerned, the election is over. And after all, the committee it voted in to law to fix the problems with national elections has no sitting members and goes unfunded. This shows that Congress is deadlocked about issues that would regulate U.S. national elections.

Yet, if you are a concerned voter, please contact the U.S. senators from your state at http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_i ... s_cfm.cfm/.

This egregious attempt at vote rigging by Karl Rove and the Romney campaign—if true—must not go unpunished. At the minimum, Ohio, Virginia, and Florida should be forced to have a ballot paper trail. This would allow for a verifiable recount if this same thing turns up in 2016. The current electronic voting systems in those states cannot be used to do a legitimate recount.


Any thoughts?

-Arlos
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Spazz » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:52 pm

I was just watching thom hartman talk about that. I dont know what to make of it but it seems within the realm of possibilities.

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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby brinstar » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:09 am

man i FULLY believe that shit

any party that would push voter ID law in an effort to short-circuit the democrat vote is a hair's breadth from cheating to begin with

you can't tell me its chief slimeball strategist wouldn't put a toe on the scale if he thought he could get away with it


edited to add:

and it maybe already worked once, so why wouldn't it work again
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Lyion » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 am

I think if you want to find REAL voter fraud, it's easy. Hey look, a real news source, too. Statistics do not lie and these pretty much prove mass fraud. Not a single vote? In an area with a huge rate of illiteracy? Yeah, right. The same thing happened in a bunch of precincts in Illinois, as well.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-13/n ... ter-id-law

I was amused the UN was astonished that no I.D. was required to vote in so many places here. That wasn't very widely reported, which is not surprising.

I think those who oppose Voter ID laws or some sort of verification justify 'cheating' since it'll help their person win. This isn't wild speculation from zealots, but actual disenfranchisement due to no verification of eligibility. It's sad so many really do not care about elections being 'fair', and the idea of not having a valid ID is comical.

Our Presidential elections have less truth than a race in a banana republic right now due to the lack of integrity in our voting process, and the fact people are fine with fraud and those coming in with 'gas bills' or decades old student ID cards to vote because you know actual valid results aren't as important as 'getting out the vote' and ensuring your guy wins.

By the way, the guys stuffing ballots in Illinois, casting out GOP poll watchers in Pennsylvania, and driving Somali's to the polls aren't those 'evil' Republicans.

We need an Etrust system yesterday for employment, benefits, and to vote. If we can spend billions of dollars on ads, it's a simple deal to 'tax' all this ad spending to ensure our elections are 'fair' and the people voting are not disenfranchised because it's oh so fucking hard to get an ID Card, which it ain't.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Arlos » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:56 am

Prove mass fraud? Did you not read the entire article, where they said they actually went to those areas, and couldn't find a single person who admitted to voting Republican? Just based on the odds, you're bound to find a few such voting areas around the country. I bet if you looked hard enough, yo could have found a rural county or two that cast all their votes for Bush in 2004.

Plus, if they WERE going to commit voter fraud, don't you think they'd have picked somewhere slightly more in doubt than Pennsylvania and Illinois? Why would anyone risk major fraud in an area they're going to win anyway?

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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby brinstar » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:03 am

this just in - extremely poor urban black folks don't like romney
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Lyion » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:02 pm

Simple statistics prove there was fraud there. Much more than some wild left wing speculation on voting machines.

Zero votes? Again in many districts with high illiteracy? C'mon man...
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Tossica » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:32 pm

I'm surprised the turd got any votes in any district.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Drem » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:47 pm

McCain didn't get a single vote in 57 precincts in philly in 2008, either

not surprised a huge urban area is against a tool like Romney that says "who let the dogs out, who who" when he takes pictures with black people
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Spazz » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:58 pm

not surprised a huge urban area is against a tool like Romney that says "who let the dogs out, who who" when he takes pictures with black people


Dude i forgot all about that mitt romneys the shit.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby brinstar » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:19 pm

flipside: tell me there aren't tiny precincts in rural utah or buttfuck tennessee where obama got exactly 0 votes OMG VOTER FRAWD

also you've got Jim Greer, former florida GOP chair, freely admitting that voter id laws are designed specifically to suppress blue voters
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Harrison » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:59 am

Why would it suppress blue voters moreso than red voters?

Sounds like imaginary excuses to let stolen identities and illegals vote than anything, for either side.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Tossica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:10 am

The idea that there is some organized effort to steal identities so poor people can commit voter fraud is ridiculous. Poor people don't even fucking vote. It would be much easier to just get out there and get the fuckers to vote than to organize a nationwide effort to commit fraud.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Lyion » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:59 am

Brinstar, absolutely. There's voter fraud on both sides. It's fairly easy to have 1 guy visit 50 polling sites in one day with a plethora of gas bills, old student IDs, and various other worthless pieces of information. Better, get a busload of people, like Somali's, give them a few pizza's and take them to multiple polling sites.

The problem isn't who is or isn't voting, it's ensuring those who are voting do so in a valid and fair manner. Poor people by and large do have IDs. Every Voter ID State has a way for poor people to get them for free. There is no good and valid reason to not have and enforce these laws everywhere. Fucking third world countries have them.

Standardize voting machines so they are transparent, but also ensure voters are who they say they are via a better system that has some sort of ID required, preferably handled at the federal level.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Tossica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:31 am

In your fantasy there's a nationally organized group of people with representatives in every district who are determined to break federal law in order to raise the chances of getting "their guy" (whoever that is) in office. These representatives have to know every person that is or isn't registered in every district, have forged utility bills associated with every non registered person and pray that they make it through the polls early in case this unregistered person decides to get off their ass and vote. Or perhaps they are just making up names and addresses and having utility bills forged in those names in order to cast a provisionary ballot that in all likelihood will not even be counted.

Fantasy.

If you want to commit voter fraud, pay someone off to dispose of valid ballots or rig voting machines.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Lyion » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:10 am

If you want to commit voter fraud, pay someone off to dispose of valid ballots or rig voting machines.


That's sort of my entire point. In our country with the billions spent on elections and from special interests it's feasible a process with no good method of validating voters allows for disenfranchising people. However, it does no good to have valid ballots and bullet proof voting machines if one guy can vote 20 times with no recourse, and 19 of those are considered 'valid'.

For the record I do not think there's widespread fraud, but I think there is enough cash and too few checks and balances within the system. Fraud, like politics, is done at the local level and when the 'checks' are part of the problem it's cause for concern.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Spazz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:13 am

This is ludicrous what % of our countries population votes on election as it is ? Then your gonna tell me theres niggaz out there voting 20 times on a large scale? Fuck out of here with that kind of nonsense.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Tossica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:55 am

It's another right wing fantasy. Are there voting mistakes? Sure. Have people probably voted more than once? Sure. Is it worth the effort unless there's some kind of organized effort with a guaranteed paycheck for risking prison time? No.

It just doesn't happen.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Zanchief » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:59 am

It seems completely insane to me that you don't need proper ID to vote. We do here, we lean pretty left. I think if it was done well before a federal election it might take the sting out of it. Make sure there is a system in place for people to obtain ID if need be. Make it as painless as possible, and really, you won't have much to complain about. If someone isn't willing to do the smallest amount of work in order to vote, that person doesn't really give a shit anyway. Would this take a few votes away from Democrats? Probably. Doesn't mean it's not right.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby Tossica » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:01 pm

It's not the idea of having to show an ID that bugs me, it's the use of the measure to try to fuck people over that I have an issue with. Start the process now and say by 2020, put a program in place that everyone can agree on.
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Re: Intresting conspiracy theory of the week

Postby brinstar » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:25 pm

if it were my job to design a voting system it would go like this:

1. no precinct anywhere shall be allowed to use privately-made polling machines with propietary software protected by trade-secret rights. fuck that shit. every single precinct will use identical machines made by the US gov't, to be replaced every 6 years. you will enter your choices on the polling machine and it will print out your ballot for you. you will then have a chance to look it over and make sure it accurately reflects your intended votes. if it doesn't, you put it in a locked bin to be destroyed. you are obligated to report any glitches. once the ballot printout matches your intended votes, you yourself insert it into a ballot-counting machine (see #3)

2. absolute transparency. the federal election commission (which must be nonpartisan) must be guaranteed the right to audit any and all equipment at any and all voting precincts.

3. no precinct anywhere shall be allowed to use privately-made ballot-counting machines with proprietary software protected by trade-secret rights. fuuuuuuuuuuuck that shit. every single precinct will use identical machines made by the US gov't, to be replaced every 6 years. electronically-counted ballot results must match hand-counted ballot results before the final figure can be certified.

4. your voter ID is your thumb print. no more, no less. the instant you insert your ballot into the machine, your thumb print will be electronically scanned and translated via its features into a unique ID and added to the national database. there it will be scrubbed of any other identifying information whatsoever - its sole purpose will be to ensure your vote is only counted once. after the election, the entire database is wiped as thoroughly as technologically possible.

5. Election Day will be moved to November 14th and declared a national holiday. businesses or emergency departments who stay open shall offer each and every employee no fewer than 6 hours to leave work and vote without risk of discipline or reprisal.

6. polling precincts shall be open at least 12 hours a day for at least the full two weeks preceding Election Day. no exceptions.

7. the federal election commission shall operate a national hotline so voters can report any violations of the above laws (as well as any other standing election laws) and task forces will be empowered to perform spot audits.


there are refinements to be made but that is the basic outline - complete transparency, maximum convenience, combining privacy with vote integrity
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