fiscal cliff thread mk II

[brinstar]

first thing to go over the cliff: the emergency unemployment benefits program dies on the vine saturday, cutting off aid to those still jobless after the bank-created financial crash

all because a couple hundred rich white people refuse to let taxes go up by 4% on a couple thousand rich white people


thanks, outhouse of representatives

[Reynaldo]

Of course you could also say from the other side of the fence:

"thanks senate and president for not compromising and adding any spending cuts that the Republicans are asking for"

IIRC the house did send something up that conceded the tax bump to 39% on 250k+ earners, but asked for spending cuts in medicare, social security reform etc. but was immediately rejected. While I'm sure it was asking for a ton of stuff that the R's want, at least they conceded the tax bump to "play ball".

Not saying both sides aren't at fault, because they are.

*Edit* What I find much more offensive than the emergency unemployment benefits ending is the estate/death tax going back up to 55% for any inheritance valued over 1 million. Grabbing half of what someone made and already paid tax on once is quite the kick in the nuts.

[Tossica]

The prez already conceded to 1.3 trillion in cuts.

[Drem]

Wait, all the losers i know that have been milking unemployment will actually have to get a job again? Awesome

[Reynaldo]

Wait, all the losers i know that have been milking unemployment will actually have to get a job again? Awesome

I know right?

It sounds like a horrible thing to expire but the emergency fund kicks in after 26 weeks. That's half a freaking year. You can say the economy is bad and all that but if you can't get some kind of job in 6 months, even a warehouse gig at best buy, you're flat out not trying, or refusing something "below your pay grade".

[brinstar]

Of course you could also say from the other side of the fence:

"thanks senate and president for not compromising and adding any spending cuts that the Republicans are asking for"

IIRC the house did send something up that conceded the tax bump to 39% on 250k+ earners, but asked for spending cuts in medicare, social security reform etc. but was immediately rejected. While I'm sure it was asking for a ton of stuff that the R's want, at least they conceded the tax bump to "play ball".

Not saying both sides aren't at fault, because they are.

*Edit* What I find much more offensive than the emergency unemployment benefits ending is the estate/death tax going back up to 55% for any inheritance valued over 1 million. Grabbing half of what someone made and already paid tax on once is quite the kick in the nuts.

deflect all you want, but the fact remains: the GOP is literally holding everyone's economic stability hostage for the sake of a few thousand millionaires. IMO the dems already offered too much to those fuckin terrorists


PS i find it hilarious how butthurt the lib crowd gets about estate taxes, i thought you guys HATED the idea of people getting something without working for it? lolol

[Reynaldo]

i think you mean conservatives instead of lib.

No problem at all with someone working for stuff and passing it down to their family. Big problem with working for stuff then getting half of it taxed to hand down to people who don't work at all.

I know you're blood raging at Reps atm but i'm not deflecting anything. Obama could easily accept what the republicans are offering and the same tax breaks stay in place for all of us, but he's not. Whether any of us agree with it is irrelevant. To say one side or the other is holding all of us hostage is nonsense.

[Arlos]

Actually, Rey, you're not recalling correctly.

The Senate has already passed a bill that would make permanent the Bush tax cuts for all income < 250k/yr. Obama has publicly said he would sign it. The Democrats in the house have all said they would support it, as have enough GOP members to give it enough votes to pass. Boehner refuses to bring it up for a vote. So no, it's NOT Obama that's stalling on the taxes, it's the GOP. That Senate bill has been sitting there waiting for a House vote for weeks now.

-Arlos

[brinstar]

heh yeah rey i debated whether that would backfire before submitting. by "lib" i actually meant "libertarian" not "liberal", but my point remains. you righties believe rich people should get to live by a different set of rules; we owe them everything, and we should piss ourselves in a race to curry their favor

not sure why i'm bothering to even type this (because you won't change your mind) but you're quite simply wrong here. last summer during the whole manufactured debt ceiling hullabaloo, the dems offered $10 in cuts for every $1 in revenue. 10 to 1! and the GOP threw a big whiny pants-shitting tantrum over that $1. then came the supercommittee, and guess what - dark overlord Grover Norquist was the 13th man in the room, and threatened to throw big dollars behind primary challengers, so NO DEAL. and last week, boehner couldn't even get HIS OWN PARTY to vote on a cliff package. let me unpack that a little more: speaker boehner himself, mr. "let's vote to repeal obamacare 30+ times despite the futility of such an action", put together a bill for his own party to pass - and they gave him the finger because it wasn't extreme enough.

no sir, there are plenty of valid criticisms to be made of the dems, but the GOP has sailed entirely off the map here. the bottom line is this: you cannot blame one side for failing to compromise when the other side scorns the idea of compromise entirely. to blame each equally is to buy the ridiculous false equivalency fed you by a media too afraid of appearing biased to report truth.

[brinstar]

1/1/13 update: biden and mcconnell got together and hammered out an 11th-hour deal which passed the senate with 89 votes

but now the outhouse of representatives is using it as toilet paper

the teatards are in open revolt, looks like cantor or possibly ryan is trying to make a move on boehner's gavel

[brinstar]

guess it was mostly for show, the house went for it

it's kind of a shit deal though

[Reynaldo]

Really disappointed with the outcome.

I mean, I'm ecstatic that my taxes don't go up, but disappointed in the R's in the sense that I was optimistic they were negotiating for real spending cuts. Turns out though they bailed on that, and seem to have been just using that angle as their negotiating chip to get the higher tax floor up higher than 250k (400/450k).

So they basically reinforced the public opinion that they don't actually give a crap about anything besides trying to keep the rich from paying more. I would have much rather seen the floor at 250k and actually negotiated for the cuts that reduce the deficit.

[Arlos]

Well, do remember that raising taxes ALSO reduces the deficit. Too many spending cuts too soon can kill the economy, big time. Look at Europe, where most of them are in a much worse economic situation than we are. A big reason for that is because of all the austerity measures and spending cuts. The last thing you want to do to a fragile economy is take MORE money out of it. After all, just look at the extended unemployment insurance: You think people out of work are saving any of that? No, it's going right back into the economy, as they buy food, clothes, gas, rent and other necessities, which supports those businesses, etc.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Rich people arguing with other rich people on how best to fuck us while not being affected by it.

Sounds legit.

[brinstar]

I'm ecstatic that my taxes don't go up

sorry to burst your bubble but your taxes ARE going up, assuming you are paid via payroll - the payroll tax holiday sailed right off the cliff without anyone grabbing it

the deal also included giveaways to disney, big banks, and fucking NASCAR of all things

like i said, shit deal

[Gypsiyee]

Wait, all the losers i know that have been milking unemployment will actually have to get a job again? Awesome

I know right?

It sounds like a horrible thing to expire but the emergency fund kicks in after 26 weeks. That's half a freaking year. You can say the economy is bad and all that but if you can't get some kind of job in 6 months, even a warehouse gig at best buy, you're flat out not trying, or refusing something "below your pay grade".

This isn't necessarily true. I know I use my sister as an example a lot, but it's because it's what I've seen first hand. Top notch private school education, held down 2 jobs for 15 years; second job had massive cutbacks when the economy tanked, showed up to her primary job for work and they had a note on the door saying oh we closed, sorry. Last year, she was out of work for almost a year, and not for lack of trying.

She applied to a lot of minimum wage type jobs.. restaurants, retail, etc. She also had a 5 year old she had to care for. A few of these places told her they can't hire her because she's overqualified and they need to have jobs available for people who can't achieve better positions, a couple places were impractical because she had a child. There comes a point where it makes no sense to get a low-paying job when your entire paycheck is going to end up funding childcare because you'll be working outside of school hours.. and then there's the whole never getting time with your child issue. We grew up poor as shit with a mom who maintained 2 jobs to make sure she could make ends meet come hell or high water--my sister has never, will never be a person who refuses work when she has a child to feed because she deems a job beneath her. She's also a hates to sit still type of person.. she was legit going insane not being able to work. It got to a point where it was thrusting her into depression because she was pounding the pavement every day and feeling positively hopeless thinking she was worthless and failing her daughter. For good hard working people who've never known what it is not to work, it's not a great place to be.

That's not to say that there aren't a ton of lazy fucks taking advantage, but it's not always so black and white as to say if you can't find a job in 6 months you just aren't trying.

[Menelvir]

but it's not always so black and white

Very few things are from my perspective. I tend to see a lot of shades of grey.

I almost envy people who can so readily (unconsciously?) see so many issues in simple absolutes.