Alittle Ben Stein.........

[Xaiveir]

My sister sent this to me on myspace. Thought this was pretty intersting, and includes some topics that are being debated here.....

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on a CBS
Sunday Morning Commentary.

Herewith a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no
freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of
People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never
know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my
life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they
so important?

I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at < BR>> all about Tom Cruise's wife. Am I going to be called before a Senate
committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no
clue who Nick and Jessica are. If this is what it means to be no
longer young. It's not so bad.

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my
ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when
people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I
don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what
they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say,
"Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or
getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it It
shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time
of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on
display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people
want a cr�che, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few
hundred yards away. I don't like getting pushed around for being a
Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being
Christians.

I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting
pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that
America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the
Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat. Or
maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we
should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God
as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old,
too.

But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and
Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to. In light of
the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little
different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's
intended to get you thinking. Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed
on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let
something like this Happen?" (Regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an
extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God
is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been
telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government
and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
blessing and His protecti on if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want
prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The
Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your
neighbor as yourself. And we said OK. Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we
shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little
personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem
(Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know
what he's talking about. And we said OK. Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from
wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their
classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can
figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE
SOW." Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder
why the world's going to hell.
Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the
Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they
spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the
Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar
and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public
discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace. Are you
laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it
to many on your address list because you're not sure what they
believe, or what they will think of you for sending it. Funny how we
can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God
thinks of us. Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just
discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this
thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the
world is in. My Best Regards .. honestly and respectfully,

> Ben Stein

[Tikker]

while I don't disagree with most of what he's saying, I don't think you can only tie morality to religion

[Xaiveir]

Isnt Morality among one of the essentials in any religion though?

[Zanchief]

I had to stop reading because I couldn't stop disagreeing with the things he said and it just made me angry.

He assumes a lot of people.

[Ganzo]

Very true, this also belongs in Holly Discussions forum

[Narrock]

Very true, this also belongs in Holly Discussions forum

I already posted the first half of Ben Stein's masterpiece in the holy discussions forum a couple hours ago.

[Xaiveir]

Posted it here because it does encompass much more than just religion, and the discussion could swing an entire different direction knowing this bunch

[Zanchief]

"I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been
telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government
and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
blessing and His protecti on if we demand He leave us alone?"

See again the victim. Christians control EVERYTHING, and still they whine.

[Ganzo]

He's not christian

[vonkaar]

He's not christian

He was quoting Anne Graham, who is a Christian.

[Xaiveir]

He is jewish

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my
ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when
people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees.

That tipped me off

[vonkaar]

[Xaiveir]

And now i see Vonks post

[vonkaar]

[Ganzo]

Regardles of who you quote, once you use it to represent your ideas it becomes your issue. Ben Stein is not a chrristian, and he feels it is an issue, so it is not just a Christian whining anymore, i'm a jew and i agree with this quote as well. I'm fed up with people telling me 100 things wrong with beliving in God, but all i see aroung is glorification of Sin. Movies and VideoGames, show that beeing criminal or bad guy is Cool and Good. Theft, Murder, Adultery, Violence: those are all admirable qualities to a new generation.
Movies about torture, Galdiator fights on TV, and fucking PC showed down everyone throat. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

[kaharthemad]

ganz is that the offspring? if so damn good looking kid.

[vonkaar]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

[Ganzo]

ganz is that the offspring? if so damn good looking kid.

yes, thanks

[Ganzo]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

No he was calling Christians whiners, and i pointed out that in this instance "Wine" was served by a Jew so the issue is of a broader spectrum

[Zanchief]

Regardles of who you quote, once you use it to represent your ideas it becomes your issue. Ben Stein is not a chrristian, and he feels it is an issue, so it is not just a Christian whining anymore, i'm a jew and i agree with this quote as well. I'm fed up with people telling me 100 things wrong with beliving in God, but all i see aroung is glorification of Sin. Movies and VideoGames, show that beeing criminal or bad guy is Cool and Good. Theft, Murder, Adultery, Violence: those are all admirable qualities to a new generation.
Movies about torture, Galdiator fights on TV, and fucking PC showed down everyone throat. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

Who is this? Please let me know who it is that's telling people not to believe in God, telling people to believe in Jessica Simpson and Nick Lache rather believe in an all mighty power.

Who is glorifying torture? You know movies for the most part are a hell of a lot LESS violent then they use to be? Movies now are all PG-13, to get the kiddies into the theatre. I’d LOVE to see more movies like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon where people actual got killed on screen, it just doesn’t happen anymore. The “this generation is so much more godless then the last” argument has been going on since people started bitching about young people. Your just part the new generation of stereotypes, Ganz.

This isn't about people not being allowed to express their religious beliefs without being prosecuted, it's about ANYONE being able to express themselves EQUALLY.

Ben Stein is just towing the party line here, because he spends most of his day defending Republicans. This is far from an impartial view from a random Jew.

[Zanchief]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

No he was calling Christians whiners, and i pointed out that in this instance "Wine" was served by a Jew so the issue is of a broader spectrum

A quote is a quote, I don't care if Barney Rubble uses it at the lodge to impress his friends. The originator is yet another whiny Christian crying about discrimination.

[Narrock]

Regardles of who you quote, once you use it to represent your ideas it becomes your issue. Ben Stein is not a chrristian, and he feels it is an issue, so it is not just a Christian whining anymore, i'm a jew and i agree with this quote as well. I'm fed up with people telling me 100 things wrong with beliving in God, but all i see aroung is glorification of Sin. Movies and VideoGames, show that beeing criminal or bad guy is Cool and Good. Theft, Murder, Adultery, Violence: those are all admirable qualities to a new generation.
Movies about torture, Galdiator fights on TV, and fucking PC showed down everyone throat. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

Who is this? Please let me know who it is that's telling people not to believe in God, telling people to believe in Jessica Simpson and Nick Lache rather believe in an all mighty power.

Who is glorifying torture? You know movies for the most part are a hell of a lot LESS violent then they use to be? Movies now are all PG-13, to get the kiddies into the theatre. I’d LOVE to see more movies like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon where people actual got killed on screen, it just doesn’t happen anymore. The “this generation is so much more godless then the last” argument has been going on since people started bitching about young people. Your just part the new generation of stereotypes, Ganz.

This isn't about people not being allowed to express their religious beliefs without being prosecuted, it's about ANYONE being able to express themselves EQUALLY.

Ben Stein is just towing the party line here, because he spends most of his day defending Republicans. This is far from an impartial view from a random Jew.

I hope you're not being serious.

[Zanchief]

I hope you're not being serious.

Feel free to leave if you can't keep up.

[Ganzo]

Regardles of who you quote, once you use it to represent your ideas it becomes your issue. Ben Stein is not a chrristian, and he feels it is an issue, so it is not just a Christian whining anymore, i'm a jew and i agree with this quote as well. I'm fed up with people telling me 100 things wrong with beliving in God, but all i see aroung is glorification of Sin. Movies and VideoGames, show that beeing criminal or bad guy is Cool and Good. Theft, Murder, Adultery, Violence: those are all admirable qualities to a new generation.
Movies about torture, Galdiator fights on TV, and fucking PC showed down everyone throat. Lets brainwash everyone to worship MTV and be done with it

Who is this? Please let me know who it is that's telling people not to believe in God, telling people to believe in Jessica Simpson and Nick Lache rather believe in an all mighty power.

Who is glorifying torture? You know movies for the most part are a hell of a lot LESS violent then they use to be? Movies now are all PG-13, to get the kiddies into the theatre. I’d LOVE to see more movies like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon where people actual got killed on screen, it just doesn’t happen anymore. The “this generation is so much more godless then the last” argument has been going on since people started bitching about young people. Your just part the new generation of stereotypes, Ganz.

This isn't about people not being allowed to express their religious beliefs without being prosecuted, it's about ANYONE being able to express themselves EQUALLY.

Ben Stein is just towing the party line here, because he spends most of his day defending Republicans. This is far from an impartial view from a random Jew.

I don't remeber movied like Turistas or Hostel coming out when I was young. Both Die Hard and Lethal Weapon feature Good Guy as main hero.
Media is telling people to worship reality TV/stars. People like you tell me that religion is bad ..mkay

[Ganzo]

I'm just saying, Zanchief wasn't necessarily calling Ben Stein (ergo, the Jews) whiners =p.

No he was calling Christians whiners, and i pointed out that in this instance "Wine" was served by a Jew so the issue is of a broader spectrum

A quote is a quote, I don't care if Barney Rubble uses it at the lodge to impress his friends. The originator is yet another whiny Christian crying about discrimination.

So according to you, origin of a quote invalidates statement that it used in?