Microsoft can now

[Diekan]

officially kiss my ass for good!

[Harrison]

Welcome to 2005.

[Diekan]

Jesus you're fucking stupid, Harrison. Do you even know the first thing about Linux? Do you have any idea of tough it is to get things like 3D rendering WORKING? Do you have any idea of much effort it takes to get games like Warcraft (written FOR Windows) to work on an OS they weren't meant to work on in the first place?

You really and truly are a fucking idiot. If you had the first clue... which you don't so I'm not going to waste any more time writing...

[Harrison]

2005

[Tossica]

the Mac WoW client works great with no emulation needed. Wow runs quite well on my Mac mini which is pretty feeble as far as hardware specs go.

[Tikker]

Linux:

doing things the hardest way possible with marginally acceptable results

[Dylan]

:rofl:

Welcome to 2005.

[Gypsiyee]

as much as I disagree with so many of Diekans posts, honestly some of you guys are just haters; let the man be excited about something without thumbing your nose and thinking yourselves superior with no logical explanation based on what we know of you other than you're up your own ass for pete's sake.

grats diek, I know shit about linux but from what I do know of non windows OS's it can be a real pain to get windows written programs to work. glad you were able to get it working for you~

[Lyion]

Linux:

doing things the hardest way possible with marginally acceptable results

For some things and also if you don't know what you're doing, Linux can be a nightmare. Ubuntu is easier than Windows though for most things. Point n Click idiots should buy Macs, anyways.

For editing, graphics, databases, and coding most experienced users are 100 times more productive and the OS is generally more secure. Plus, there's that free thing and all the free software suites.

The problem is if you want to solely game and surf, yeah, Linux is a waste of time. Media/MythTV still sucks ass, although Knoppmyth and Fedora's Myth are getting closer to primetime.

Anyone's whos worked with LAMP and SQL Server/Frontpage would hugely disagree with your Linux vs Windows easy analogy, also.

I WOW and game on my Linux box sometimes. It runs faster than Vista, and no DRM or other bullshit concerns. No setup time, and no other issues.

3D driver issues are not related to the OS, btw., It's due to the proprietary graphics drivers and the fact it can't be natively enabled. It takes 5 minutes for NVIDIA to get them enabled.

Good job, Diek.

[Tikker]

i'm not comparing linux to windows

I'm comparing linux to anything else available

if you want to game, grab a windows box

if you want to do video and photo editing grab a mac


if you want a real server, grab a real unix


linux is about doing it the hardest way possible
you can do it, but you genenerally have to put way more effort into making it work than necessary

don't pigeon hole me as just a windows guy hating on linux

I was a unix system admin for 5+ years and had my HP and Solaris certs for 3 of those years

[Lyion]

In some regards, that's true. I stand by my statement for running a LAMP server, fileserver, or for coding Linux is better than Windows, and much better than commercial brand unix OS's.

HP/UX is omplete ass, and Solaris is nowhere near as easy to use as Linux is today. You're opinion strikes me as about 5 years old, when UNIX out of the box solutions were simpler than Linux. This ain't the case anymore.

For a media guy like you, Linux is about the worst and hardest solution due to the convoluted licenses and idiotic copyright laws here. This is true.

Ubuntu is easier to use and more stable than Vista. It's more secure, and I can install it and be 100 times more productive, as can most engineers and scientists with any sort of Comp Sci and Unix background than in Vista.

I agree for a n00b Linux is hard. However, it's no harder than Vista. For a professional with a tech background looking to do things other than frag or play TV, it's easier, more stable, and of course free.

[Tikker]

HPUX is the suck for true

Solaris was never easy, but it always very stable, and reliable. most of the huge unix boxes in the telco environment are SUN boxes for a reason. tons of the big MMO companies run a ton of their stuff on SUN boxes too (or at least, 75%+ of the boxes I saw in their ops centers were SUN)

I've always found that linux just takes constant fiddling with to keep it up and running properly
every time a distro gets nice and stable, they decide to split or merge or something else and you end up with a mess again of half working stuff


it's pretty hard to run a lamp server without linux since the L in lamp = linux, heh


90% of my issues with linux is the god awful documentation

[Lyion]

Solaris was never easy, but it always very stable, and reliable. most of the huge unix boxes in the telco environment are SUN boxes for a reason. tons of the big MMO companies run a ton of their stuff on SUN boxes too (or at least, 75%+ of the boxes I saw in their ops centers were SUN)

This is mainly due to migrating mainframe apps to Solaris Big Iron made more sense and was very well sold and recieved. Thus, you have a huge base of Solaris in those Op Centers from the 2000ish migrations.

As of today, most Op Centers are slowly moving off of Solaris and other Unix variants to Linux. I work for 3 Fortune 500 companies and all three are rolling out Linux solutions, replacing older Unix ones. Especially database and application servers.

I've always found that linux just takes constant fiddling with to keep it up and running properly
every time a distro gets nice and stable, they decide to split or merge or something else and you end up with a mess again of half working stuff

This is less true today than ever. With the numerous hands free update programes, a la emerge it's pretty hands off. The bigger problems is the proprietary stuff that can't be bundled with Linux.

it's pretty hard to run a lamp server without linux since the L in lamp = linux, heh

There are plenty of equivalents to LAMP, such as SQl Server/Frontpage but even paying the thousands for the licenses, it is vastly inferior to LAMP.

90% of my issues with linux is the god awful documentation

Can't argue that. The organization and technical style of almost every Linux project leaves a lot to be desired. It's pretty dismal. Even as an advanced user, I get frustrated

[Tikker]

lots are definitely moving towards linux as it's the walmart approach

super cheap stuff that you can make do the job (price, not necessarily quality is what I mean by cheap)


the main point of contention seems to be the lack (sometimes it's just the percieved lack) of strong support mechanism for the linux side

as it becomes more commecialized this will go away, but it keeps a lot of companies away from it

[Darcler]

:rofl:

Welcome to 2005.

He's kinda right though. I think Gid said something about being able to play wow on Linux mid to late 2005. It played a bit different and somet hings didnt work (like running with your thumb clicky mouse button).

Good job though. I dont have the patience to mess with Linux

[Diekan]

He's an idiot. 98% of the board knows he's an idiot. But, that's beside the point.

Getting WoW to work in Linux is a bit tougher than changing your wallpaper image. Just because it's something that's been accomplished since 2005, doesn't mean it's easy. The first distro that it was installed on (way back then) isn't the same as it is now. Kernels are upgraded and changed, new distros come out, vendors release new chipsets with their hardware, applications get upgraded, new applications come out.

Installing and running WoW on a Linux box isn't just a matter of popping in your disk and clicking "install." You've got to make sure you have a good emulator, that your video card is working properly, that you have all the correct fonts installed, that you have your sound configured properly, that you have the right versions of everything you need. Then you have to configure your emulator, configure your video card configuration file, so on and so forth. Despite Harrison's lack of any self-esteem (hence his know-it-all attitude), in reality he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. If he were oh so wise and bright (as he wants us all to believe) he wouldn't be a 20 something, unemployed, college drop out living with his mother. Now would he? This is why he makes me laugh when he posts... it is on topics like this that really and truly show just how completely clueless he really is.

I think certain distros are lacking in documentation. Ubuntu has one of the best community boards I have seen. Over something like 3 quarters of a million posts on every conceivable topic you can imagine. The boards alone are exponentially better than any telephonic technical support you get by calling vendors like MS and Dell. That's Ubuntu though. The SuSE boards are shitty, incomplete, and horrid to get any information from. You ask a question on the Ubuntu boards and you'll have 10 replies in a couple of hours with more suggestions than you would care to try. Ask a question on a SuSE board and you'll be luck if you get a single reply in 10 days.

This disto is very nice indeed. All the free packages (Open Office, Gimp, XMMS, etc) notwithstanding, I have MS Office, Photoshop, WoW and a couple of other MS only programs installed through Wine and working smoothly.

Even with Ubuntu there IS a learning curve and it DOES demand time to learn. But, with the information available (through the boards and other sites) there's really no excuse for anyone literate not to be able to install and run it.

The actual install took roughly 15 minutes. After which I was looking at the desktop, had Internet access and could use all the included suites (Office, so on). In all actuality, installing SuSE wasn't much different. The install of SLED took about 30 minutes and I had access to everything 'out of the box.' So, while Tikker might be right on some points, I have to disagree that Linux is still out of reach for the average computer user. I say out of reach, because again I will say there is a small learning curve (learning where things are, how to install new programs, so forth), but if you can read this post, then you can run the non-server distros of Linux.

Where it does get a lot more difficult is when you decide to start running graphically intense games like WoW. Then the learning curve gets much steeper and you'll need to spend a lot more time learning and reading.

As for the average user. If all you're interested in doing is surfing the web, sending emails, playing with images, listening to music, working on a document or two - you don't need Windows. You can do all that the moment your Linux install finishes, for the most part).

[Tikker]

i never said linux was out of reach of the average computer user

for the most part, windows is too complicated for the average computer user

but cause for the most part most folks on this board are somewhat technically fluent and tend to hang with those that are as well, we're always surprised to hear of someone who doesn't understand what right click is, let alone a symbolic link

[Lyion]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... le=1&cat=0

[Diekan]

LOL. That's brings me much joy!

[Gidan]

You need to get your hands on a copy of crossover office. Probably the easiest way to run windows software on Linux. Install it and then all your windows .exe files and just be run as you would any other program. Crossover office was developed by codeweavers and was funded by Disney and 2 other production companies who would rather remain nameless it seems. Basically Disney didn't want to use windows anymore and rather then wait for adobe to port Photoshop, they went around it. Crossover Office is based on wine and basically removes all the configuration and shell work, you simply install then run your windows apps just as you would on windows. I installed it on a fedora box I was playing with, really does work well.

[Diekan]

Isn't it like 5 bucks a month?

I have wine working just fine. WoW, MS Office, Photoshop... everything I used to use in 2000 and XP - I have up and working.... /shrug... Not that I don't use Open Office or Gimp, but it was fun installing that MS crap just to do it.

[Gidan]

That would be cedega thats $5 a month. Crossover office is actually not free software but if you spend 10 seconds on a torrent site I bet you can find it. Not that I support that kind of thing .

[Diekan]

Hmmm.. an excuse to fire up Deluge!!

[Gidan]

The actual website for the software

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice/