More evolutionary lies.

[Harrison]

Holy fuck people, give it up.

What happened in the past does not villianize an entire new occurence of a belief.

The crusades, spanish inquisition, witch trials, etc. do NOT make believing in a God a bad thing.

[Lyion]

I suppose this could be true but I've yet to see anything about athiests killing thousands of people because they don't believe in a god. I'm not telling anyone how to run their life, I don't show up at your door trying to get you to join my faith. I don't condem a person because they believe, yet I'm supposedly going to hell because I don't believe in Jesus or God.

Anyone with your uber mangina cyber skills is destined for the Pearly Gates.

For the record you are wrongly equating 'Fundamentalism' with Christianity. No person who has read the bible and understood it would ever 'judge' another.

[runamonk]

I suppose this could be true but I've yet to see anything about athiests killing thousands of people because they don't believe in a god. I'm not telling anyone how to run their life, I don't show up at your door trying to get you to join my faith. I don't condem a person because they believe, yet I'm supposedly going to hell because I don't believe in Jesus or God.

Anyone with your uber mangina cyber skills is destined for the Pearly Gates.

For the record you are wrongly equating 'Fundamentalism' with Christianity. No person who has read the bible and understood it would ever 'judge' another.

You would think that was the case but it's not, people take these things too seriously. There are alot of horrific things that happen in the name of a god, I'm not strictly speaking about Jesus, Ala or any religion in particular, it's a pretty broad generialization but still it's true.

I don't fault or judge people who believe, my wife's family is very strong catholic and I have a few mormon friends and they are cool. They don't take it too far, they don't try and "convert" me. I respect that, I also respect that they believe in something, they know what they believe and don't they don't care what other people think about that.

The people that scare me are the ones who are willing to blow someone up because they believe it will secure a place in heaven for them, people who are willing to picket and throw things at doctors who perform abortions because it goes against their beliefs. Again these are just extremes I'm mentioning but these are the things we hear about everyday. We rarely hear abou the good things that religious people do everyday without recognition, churches who bring in homeless and help them etc.

I'm too easy going to judge anyone without knowing that they did something to be judged for. I say just let people live their lives and worry about yourself and things sure would be alot better.

[runamonk]

Holy fuck people, give it up.

What happened in the past does not villianize an entire new occurence of a belief.

The crusades, spanish inquisition, witch trials, etc. do NOT make believing in a God a bad thing.

Nobody said believing in a god is a bad thing, that's the point. Believe in a god all you want, just don't try and tell me I have too.

[Lyion]

The people that scare me are the ones who are willing to blow someone up because they believe it will secure a place in heaven for them.

We call them Muslims.

There are idiots in every belief system. Usually they are Obsessive Compulsive types with disorders that manifest regardless of how their lives end up.

I'm too easy going to judge anyone without knowing that they did something to be judged for. I say just let people live their lives and worry about yourself and things sure would be alot better.

Anyone who has read the Bible and knows the signifcance of the Sermon on the Mount understands what Jesus made abundantly clear when he warned, "Judge not, lest you yourselves be judged."

The Koran is scary. Athiests are the lowest scum on earth. Christians and Jews are people of the book, but they are not to be treated better than second class citizens and laws and rights should not be granted to them.

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" (5:51).

[runamonk]

Yup, it's scary stuff man.

Just look at Mindia...

[Tikker]

Holy fuck people, give it up.

What happened in the past does not villianize an entire new occurence of a belief.

The crusades, spanish inquisition, witch trials, etc. do NOT make believing in a God a bad thing.

well you see, this statement might be valid someday in the future when people stop killing for religion


people still do today
It might happen some place far away where you don't give a shit, but it's still happening, and people are still killing those of diff't idealogies for the sake of their god

[Harrison]

You're fucking hopeless if you generalize that much.

Those people are fucked in the head to begin with and religion is not the sickness to be cured.

[runamonk]

You're fucking hopeless if you generalize that much.

Those people are fucked in the head to begin with and religion is not the sickness to be cured.

I'll give you that much, this would be like blaming video games and movies because some 15 year old kid decides to murder his classmates and just happens to play a particular video that contains violence.

Wait that happens all that time... :p

[Tikker]

You're fucking hopeless if you generalize that much.

Those people are fucked in the head to begin with and religion is not the sickness to be cured.

why is it associated with religion then?


Find me an uprising of athiests that have gone out and annhilated segments of the population just because those people believed in god


You're retarded if you don't think it has something to do with religion

[Ganzo]

Find me an uprising of athiests that have gone out and annhilated segments of the population just because those people believed in god

Ever heard of Nazi Germany and USSR

[Harrison]

He's hopeless...

You would be the same type that blames religion for getting raped in the ass by a priest. A normal person would blame the priest himself. You clearly have problems with religion and anything to do with it. (as does most of this board)

[Tikker]

Both of those regimes wiped out millions of non religious as well

They didn't restrict themselves to just the religious



ie:

August 22, 1939 Hitler authorizes killing "without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language."


Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying, or trying to say he didn't have a hate on for certain religions. but it wasn't restricted to those religions

[Lyion]

Find me an uprising of athiests that have gone out and annhilated segments of the population just because those people believed in god

Ganzo did with Stalin and Hitler, Tikk.

Just nod in agreement and say the pendulum swings both ways.

[Zanchief]

Lyion, you assume that atheists try desperately to push their views on people because on this board, when a subject about religion is introduced we comment on it? Would you rather we not have an opinion?

If someone asks me if I believe in God I'll tell them I don't. That doesn't mean I'm pushing my views on someone, just like if someone asked YOU if you believed in God that you would be pushing yours. Atheists for the most part mind their own business. I can't necessarily say the same for people like Mindia.

As for evolution, Mindia. There can be many species that evolve from anything. If a species doesn't exist anymore it doesn't mean it evolved into something else, it means they all died. It may have also evolved over the years, may have even evolved into a few different species. If that's what your asking, you really aren't being clear.

For those who are looking to fossils to disprove evolution, do you not believe in carbon dating which disproves the timeline in the bible? Do you wonder why, instead of worrying about transitional fossils, there aren't any fossils of all those biblical species that have no historical record?

[xaoshaen]

Both of those regimes wiped out millions of non religious as well

They didn't restrict themselves to just the religious

ie:

August 22, 1939 Hitler authorizes killing "without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying, or trying to say he didn't have a hate on for certain religions. but it wasn't restricted to those religions

Because the Crusaders and Inquisitioners were restricted by religion in their slaughter? Atheist regimes have in fact wiped out segments of their population solely on the grounds of religious preference. You've made the classic blunder of believing that the Crusades were some sort of Holy War, too. Faith may have been given as the excuse, but most of the Crusades were political or materialistic in nature. The Spanish Inquisition likewise had its roots as much in politics as religion.

[xaoshaen]

If someone asks me if I believe in God I'll tell them I don't. That doesn't mean I'm pushing my views on someone, just like if someone asked YOU if you believed in God that you would be pushing yours. Atheists for the most part mind their own business. I can't necessarily say the same for people like Mindia.

I gotta say Zan, I've met some incredibly pushy atheists in my time, some the equal of Mindia in terms of their zealotry.

[Narrock]

Yup, it's scary stuff man.

Just look at Mindia...

That's so weird I don't know whether to LOL or to Would you like to elaborate further Zennish? No side comments from the peanut gallery please. This is a question for Zennish.

[Narrock]

Lyion, you assume that atheists try desperately to push their views on people because on this board, when a subject about religion is introduced we comment on it? Would you rather we not have an opinion?

If someone asks me if I believe in God I'll tell them I don't. That doesn't mean I'm pushing my views on someone, just like if someone asked YOU if you believed in God that you would be pushing yours. Atheists for the most part mind their own business. I can't necessarily say the same for people like Mindia.

As for evolution, Mindia. There can be many species that evolve from anything. If a species doesn't exist anymore it doesn't mean it evolved into something else, it means they all died. It may have also evolved over the years, may have even evolved into a few different species. If that's what your asking, you really aren't being clear.

For those who are looking to fossils to disprove evolution, do you not believe in carbon dating which disproves the timeline in the bible? Do you wonder why, instead of worrying about transitional fossils, there aren't any fossils of all those biblical species that have no historical record?

lol

Carbon dating as well as radiometric dating methods have been proven over and over again to be inaccurate and extremely unreliable. Try to pry off your knowledge deflector shield briefly and "Google it" if you don't believe me. Also, I'm not pushing my religious beliefs on anyone. I am merely the messenger.

[10sun]

Find me an uprising of athiests that have gone out and annhilated segments of the population just because those people believed in god

Ganzo did with Stalin and Hitler, Tikk.

Just nod in agreement and say the pendulum swings both ways.

Hitler was a Christian.

One of the best.

[Arlos]

Saying you don't hate Christianity and then spewing forth mountians of angst towards people of faith proves the opposite. Jerry Falwell does not speak for me. I can't recall riding out or supporting the crusades. Just like you did not support slavery, and yet are American, its tough to lump past mistakes on to present people.

If you don't differentiate and attack Christianity then that includes those of us who do not do evil, but are trying through Faith to live life in a way to make the world a better place.

Generally if you hate something, that includes it's current members

Show me where I've told anyone, anywhere, that they're wrong for believing in God or any diety of their choice, or that I'm even remotely an athiest. I think you will find that if you actually READ what I've said, my issues with organized religion can be boiled down to one complaint: Any religion trying to force their beliefs on other people, especially by using political influence to get faith-specific laws passed, which ultimately force non-believers to conform to the tenets of a faith they do not believe in, is doing evil.

The problem is, you see the organized churches doing this all the time, as well as the more zealous followers of the more fundamentalist faiths on an individual level. See: Catholic Bishops ordering priests to deny communion to people who vote for Kerry. See: Falwell and other members of the Religious Right and their influence and agenda in Congress and with Bush. See: the recent scandal at the Air Force academy. See: Mindia's diatribes here. See: The Jehovah's Witnesses and their activities. See: Religious-based objection to actual sex education in schools and teens being given access to birth control, resulting in thousands more un-necessary teen pregnancies and continued spread of disease. etc. etc. etc.

I have ZERO problem with individual people following whatever faith they desire, of believing in God and the Bible, of using their faith to enrich their lives and grow personally. I similarly have no problem of people discussing their faith IF ASKED. If not, asked however, keep it to yourself. Your faith is your own, and it is a private thing. So is mine. You have no more right to expound to me your faith if I'm not interested than I do to do the same to you.

Again, as simply as possible, you have whatever faith you want, and believe in whatever fashion you wish, as long as you keep it to yourself, or share it with those who are interested or like-minded. As soon as people of faith, regardless of WHAT faith that is, attempt to try and coerce anyone, in any way, then they're doing evil. You don't see shintoists, buddhists, pagans, unitarians, etc. trying to enact legislation forcing others to conform to their religious beliefs and practices. In this country it is only the Christians that try that, which is why so much of the backlash looks like anger against Christians or Christianity. If there was a big block of Hindu politicians trying to enact laws which forced conforming to hindi religious belief, I'd be just as up in arms against them as well, for exactly the same reasons.

So yes, it is entirely possible to hate the political structure of a faith and the actions the organized Churches are doing, without in any way hating individual members of said faith.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

I gotta say Zan, I've met some incredibly pushy atheists in my time, some the equal of Mindia in terms of their zealotry.

for the most part

[Gidan]

I went and googled it just to see what your sources were on how bad Carbon dating is. Almost every single link brought me to a creation website. It was even stated on a few that it was inacurate becasue the bible said earth wasn't that old.

If carbon dating were so inacurate it would not be used. Not all science is evolution and a very large portion of hte scientific comunity is about finding the truth behind things. If it were as inacurate as these site claim, it would not be used.

[Harrison]

Science isn't always right.

Not saying carbon dating is far off or any less verifiable as a result of that...

But don't be naive and believe that just because it is used that in itself is reason enough to "know" that it is accurate.

[Arlos]

You would be the same type that blames religion for getting raped in the ass by a priest. A normal person would blame the priest himself.

Well, perhaps you might find the religion at fault for demanding celibacy of its clergy, which is by no means a natural state, and can lead to complications.

That aside, of course you blame the individual priest for his actions. What you blame the CHURCH for is: a) covering it up, b) not immediately defrocking priests who they knew were guilty and then turning them over to the secular authorities, c) Actually RE-ASSIGNING priests they knew had done such things to unsuspecting parishes and back into working with children, where they'd be free to do it again. Sometimes these priests would molest children, get caught, and get re-assigned not just once, but multiple times, and d) Not getting rid of the administrators (bishops) who condoned such things, like the guy from Boston. Hell, at one point Ratzenberger claimed all the complaints were just people attacking the church. Now there's some compassion for you.

What the church SHOULD have done is as soon as they found out any priest was doing this is immediately defrock them, then turn them over to the police with the evidence, so that they could be thrown in jail forever. If they'd done that, no one at all would be pissed at the Catholic church over the issue. That is, of course, not what they did, which is why they're facing hundreds of millions in lawsuits. Just imagine the furor if a school administration had knowingly kept a teacher around who molested children, and rather than turn him over to the police, they kept assigning him to new elementary schools where he was free to do it again and again. That's exactly what the Church did.

-Arlos