The 2004/2005 *NBA Talk* thread

[xaoshaen]

Bet you haven't seen a single Raptors game this year Xao.

I've seen a few, and I follow the NBA pretty closely. The Raptors have been playing a bit better as of late, but they're still 12th... in the East. They've been disorganized, their coach has been at odds with the team, and they essentially gave away Vince Carter because they couldn't motivate him. If they continue to build around Bosh, get a better coach, and either dump Alston or hire a decent shrink, they have the potential to be significantly better next year, but right now they're one of the ten worst teams in the league.

[vonkaar]

Zan, I'd say Portland is in worse shape than NY. At least the Knicks have *a few* expiring contracts and SOME semblance of team chemistry. Portland has... Rahim.

Power rankings at any site mean jack. They are alot of the times wrong.. last year it was Lakers #1 they lost, Kings #1 3 years ago Lost, Spurs #1 before lakers lost... detriot like #4 won the whole thing.

First... I think you are confused as to what the power rankings system means. It isn't a 'prediction' system. It's merely a "how teams are doing - at the present time meter." And... it's usually pretty accurate. Dallas has never ranked higher than San Antonio... because they are 3-0 on us. Even when we were kicking ass all over the place, we still only peaked at #2. That doesn't mean that ESPN, Hoopshype, SI or NBA.com seriously thought for that one week that Dallas was going to finish #2 at the end of the season... it simply meant that we were ON A ROLL.

Second... all of your examples are stupid...

LA made it all the way to the finals... #1 was a pretty good guess.
Sac made it all the way to the conf finals. #1 was a pretty good guess.
SA only lost to the Conf champions and it took a MIRACLE shot to deflate them. #1 was a pretty good guess.
Nobody expected Detroit to win the finals... but #4 was still a pretty good guess. They were ON A ROLL.

Being ranked #1 doesn't mean, "OMG, THIS TEAM WILL WIN IT ALL!!!" it just means, "hey look, this team is on a roll... they are kicking ass."

My comment about Sac minus Bibby was referring to Sac 'now'. Sac was the deepest team in the league 2 years ago... Bibby could have sat on his ass and they still could have won 50 games. Not now.

But... far and away...

this was the gem of your post...

If the kings were healthy in 02 and 03 they would have won championships.. they weren't... Lakers were. spurs were.

Dallas doesn't have enough D

wait...

Sac could... wait, not could... WOULD have won championshipS!

but Dallas doesn't have enough D.



glass houses... stones...

[Zanchief]

Bet you haven't seen a single Raptors game this year Xao.

I've seen a few, and I follow the NBA pretty closely. The Raptors have been playing a bit better as of late, but they're still 12th... in the East. They've been disorganized, their coach has been at odds with the team, and they essentially gave away Vince Carter because they couldn't motivate him. If they continue to build around Bosh, get a better coach, and either dump Alston or hire a decent shrink, they have the potential to be significantly better next year, but right now they're one of the ten worst teams in the league.

Poor opinion from an outisder.

We got two 1st round draft picks for Vince Carter, damn good deal.

We don't need a new coach, ours is great and the players are gonna get in line.

Alston is alston, we arent looking to dump him, he just needs to calm down.

We may be one of the 10 worst teams in the league, but it doesnt mean you don't know shit about em.

[Xaiveir]

Alston was sick of losing, he snapped alittle. That happens to people, it has been a frustrating year for the team.

Dumping Vince was the best thing the Raptors did, getting 2 first round draft picks, and losing a bad influence on the team was great.

They have a solid lineup that will give many teams problems down the stretch, and next year they have a talented nucleus to build around.

[vonkaar]

Also...

I would probably put Bosh as my 2nd pick for the 'young guy to build a team around' award. Only LBJ beats him. Amare and Yao don't count. Bosh *could* be a future Duncan... he just needs the right help.

[xaoshaen]

Poor opinion from an outisder.

The irony here is staggering, given your ironclad opinions on U.S. internal affairs.

We got two 1st round draft picks for Vince Carter, damn good deal.

The picks can't really be evaluated until we see what Toronto actually gets with them. It's possible that they'll be make up for the loss of Carter, however those picks have zero impact on the Raptors of today. You know, the team I commented on.

We don't need a new coach, ours is great and the players are gonna get in line.

Yeah. We've seen how well that's worked out. Mitchell's managed to alienate a significant chunk of his locker room, including his point guard, the one player on the team who absolutely must be on the same page as the coach.

Alston is alston, we arent looking to dump him, he just needs to calm down.

Alston is Alston, which is why you can't count on him to "calm" down. It's why Miami kicked him out the door, and why Mitchell has had such problems with him. Something in the Alston dynamic desperately needs to change for Toronto to succeed: either Mitchell goes, Alston grows up, or Alston goes.

We may be one of the 10 worst teams in the league, but it doesnt mean you don't know shit about em.

So, I'm right... but I don't know shit about them.

[Zanchief]

Poor opinion from an outisder.

The irony here is staggering, given your ironclad opinions on U.S. internal affairs.

ZING! The only thing Ironclad about my opinion on US politics is your goldenboy is a complete moron. But if you want to link your knowledge of the raptors with my knowledge of US politics, go right ahead and invalidate your opinion.

The picks can't really be evaluated until we see what Toronto actually gets with them. It's possible that they'll be make up for the loss of Carter, however those picks have zero impact on the Raptors of today. You know, the team I commented on.

Semantics. You said they gave away Carter, which isn't true.

Yeah. We've seen how well that's worked out. Mitchell's managed to alienate a significant chunk of his locker room, including his point guard, the one player on the team who absolutely must be on the same page as the coach.

And yet Alstons productivity this year is miles ahead of what people thought he would do. Personally, I would rather have an alston who cares too much then 100 Carters who don't care at all. As far as the locker room, most of the team loves Mitchell. He plays his bench a lot more the O'Neil did and he has the respect of all his team sans Eric Williams, who has been hugely disappointing. But I guess you read about how the locker room is somehow turning on him in some super secret Arab newspaper that gives you special insight on the subject? Cause from where I'm sitting one player whining about getting traded out of his hometown doesn't warrant "fire the coach" talks.

Alston is Alston, which is why you can't count on him to "calm" down. It's why Miami kicked him out the door, and why Mitchell has had such problems with him. Something in the Alston dynamic desperately needs to change for Toronto to succeed: either Mitchell goes, Alston grows up, or Alston goes.

Mitchell isnt going, I don't know where you got that idea. Rose didn't like being on the bench and he played his way back in the starting lineup (or eric williams played his way out) nothing to do with the coach. Alston has grown up, he just doesn't like losing.

So, I'm right... but I don't know shit about them.

I'm right the media in the US sucks, so I guess that means I know shit about American politics right? BTW where the fuck are your sources Xao? Not one linked source to back up your opinion, your debate teacher would cry if he could see you now. You're an embarrassment to Internet windbags.

[Zanchief]

And Alston wasnt kicked out the door in Miami, he was a free agent. The reason Miami didnt make a bid for him is they knew his price tag and wanted to play Wade at PG. Considering that experiement didnt go so well and now there stuck with Jones playing the point they might want to do over on that one though.

[Malluas]

Hey Vonk.. did you like the refereeing last night? i only could listen to it at work so...

I kno the kings announcers were wondering about some calls on both sides.. then after Dirk was like wtf i didn't flagrant foul and niether did thomas.

There was a goal tend call that also was blow (AGAIN) on the same play i think they gave thomas a flagrant. Which from what i heard was a big CF in officiating.


The refing in the NBA is so piss poor right now. Its almost as bad as NFL officials NEVER calling holding when it happens, and calling holding when it doesnt

[vonkaar]

nah... it was np. It was a good game. Most of the Dallas fans I talked to had np losing that game... we played well, ya'll just played at 100% of your abilities. Seriously... it was just a better game for Sac.

We aren't worried. Damp is coming back in a few games, Stack is right behind him. We are looking solid even without them, but when they come back... and quote me on this... there isn't a team in the league that can beat us. If we stay healthy, that is.

Our preferred starting lineup of Terry, Finley, Howard, Dirk and Damp have less than 200 minutes of playing time together this season. Phoenix' starting 5 has over 1300. We are doing fucking fantastic for being so beat up all year.

But anyway, yeah... the officiating is pretty disgusting. Like... amazingly bad. We've had a few good games lately but we definitely get some stupid-fucking calls here and there. It's CLEARLY escalated from the past few years... and that's fucking bullshit.

and... Avery Johnson is the only head coach that can get technicals without cussing... he hasn't cursed in 15 years, but he still racks up the T's np. Fucking whining refs...

[Malluas]

hehe.. yea this year the refereeing is the worst... and of course next year will be.

I was listenin to that kings game.. and Gary Gerrald (kings announcer) was sayin "so and so refs name" is egging on Bibby.. or Going after Dirk.

I thought their job was to ref.. and explain like that old skinny guy (name eludes me atm) Joey Crawford is the worst at it... but at least he is barely more times than not with his refereeing.

[vonkaar]

Great stuff from ESPN..

Ever since Juwan Howard went down -- and the beginning of that sentence alone is enough to raise a red flag -- the Rockets have been playing without any power forwards who could even be considered "crappy." So here's my question: Who the hell is guarding Dirk Nowitzki in this series? Clarence Weatherspoon? Ryan Bowen? Vin Baker? Dikembe Mutombo? Scott Padgett? Yao? Roger Clemens? There's a good chance that Dirk could break MJ's scoring record for a five-game series, especially since we just named a German pope who will be rooting for him. And what happens when the Mavs play Nowitzki and the Completely & Totally Rejuvenated Keith Van Horn at the same time? Who does Yao plan on guarding?

(Note: I actually think the Mavs are going to KILL the Rockets, save for the one game when T-Mac drops in the neighborhood of 55 to 58 points on them.)

Damp+Bradley are great at shutting down Yao.
Howard+Finley will do their best on T-Mac, although he'll still probably average at least 25ppg in the series.
Sura isn't much of an offensive threat... Terry and Harris should be able to handle him just fine.

Should be exciting... maybe after we destroy Houston people will start taking us seriously... especially after Phoenix takes 7 games to beat Memphis

My picks:

Sacramento stuns a hobbling Seattle in 6
San Antonio sweeps Denver
Dallas beats Houston in 5.
Phoenix struggles with Memphis but wins in 7.

Detroit sweeps Philly
Miami beats New Jersey in 6
Washington beats Chicago in 7
Indiana struggles but finally beats Boston in 7

2nd round (injuries be damned!)

Dallas takes Phoenix in 6
San Antonio takes Sacramento in 5

Miami takes Washington in 5
Detroit takes Indiana in 7

Conf Finals:

I won't say if Dallas will beat San Antonio until I see how Duncan is feeling at this point. I will say that Dallas *can* beat them... it'll just take 100% from each guy OR a hurt Duncan to make it happen.

Detroit will beat Miami in 7.

Finals:

[Zanchief]

Miami over Pacers in the semis.

I could see Dallas losing to Spurs in the semis.

[Malluas]

vonk.. yea peja is hurt they are saying MAYBe a return for brad in game 3 at Sac.. Butdoubt that.. they MIGHT beat the sonics. But yea they will lose in 5 games to the Spurs if Duncan gets semi healthy.. if he doesn't spurs win in 6 hehe

i think the mavs houston will go 7 depends on if tracy is hot or not... yao won't be a factor damp can guard him.. shit Ostertag shut him down last time. and i think dallas will beat the Suns in 5.. all depends tho.. terry will have to contain Nash to an extent. Nash won't work on defense so ... i say each game is like 115+ to 113

[vonkaar]

damn... I didn't know Peja was out =/.

I was all excited because Brad was going to be back.

[Malluas]

peja isn't out per say.. he has a groin injury