Trial

[Gargamellow]

Well, I just get the impresssion, is all. Well, I gotta run out for a few. I will be home shortly.

[Tacks]

Basically all I want to hear you say is what I've been trying to get out of you the entire time. The game isn't better or even close to being better. The community is what keeps you coming back. And for THAT I can respect your opinion of why you enjoy EQ more but none of the other bullshit you've been spewing.

[Gargamellow]

But it seems better to me. That is why I keep saying that it is better.

In my opinion, it is better.

I have to go, seriously.

back soon

[Naethyn]

In the end, anyone who wants to have all the AA points can still get them. All AA points promote is more XP grinding to get you to re-up your account every month.

With talent sets every character is different. The versatility of classes isn't even comparable in the two.

AA points is a linear timesink and nothing more.

Comparing talents and AA is about as smart as comparing EQ and wow.

AA <> talents

Wow could easily introduce an AA system to promote a reason to get exp instead of just farming for loot. AA gives a player a reason to continue killing mobs for other reasons than loot.

[Tacks]

Uhhh what?

How can you NOT compare AA's and talents? They're the only other form of character advancement to each game other than getting loot.

People don't farm areas in WoW for loot. Are you saying that group grind areas in EQ is fun? The day that WoW introduces AA's and promotes area grinds will be the day they lose a ton of players.

People either log into WoW for a few reasons

1) PVP (EQ's pvp is laughable at best)
2) raiding (EQ's is just as good)
3) chatting (EQ can do this just as good)


chinese gold farmers = EQ AA grinders

At least the chinese farmers get paid to do it

[Naethyn]

What is the point of farming items? To get more powerful.
What is the point of farming AA? To get more powerful.

The role of talents is to give character diversity, in a restricted class option.

The difference is that with AA everyone is on a level playing field. A non raiding character can get far more powerful than one who raids if he puts the effort into getting AA.

There are many times I joined EXP groups for fun. I loved to kill camps that where challenging and the competition for spawns, much unlike wow, was a very exciting aspect of the game.

[Naethyn]

chinese gold farmers = EQ AA grinders

At least the chinese farmers get paid to do it

I can't tell if Zanchief is being sarcastic or just stupid

[Tacks]

So you don't care if the game isn't skill-based and instead just time-based?

If you're going that route then you can compare PVP gear to AA points because any retarded monkey with no job and enough caffeine can "advance" but still get their asses handed to them...but wait at least you can actually do something with the spent time in WoW as opposed to more and more grinding to become "more powerful" in order to what.......become even more powerful? What is the point?

So your AA advancement is a neverending cycle of getting more powerful in order to get more powerful where in WoW you get more powerful in order to shove a noobs head up his ass. If non-ending grinding is enjoyment to you then more power to ya.

[Naethyn]

I found it takes far more skill to become great in EQ than it would a thousand times in wow.

[Tacks]

Skill to become great at doing what? Killing computer mobs?

[Naethyn]

You just dont get it do you?

If you can honestly say you got your way to the "top" in eq by killing computer mobs I feel sorry for you. For you have missed a great deal of what the game was about.

[Tacks]

lol ok.......

[Narrock]

If I went back to WoW or EQ2, it would definitely be WoW. EQ2 just doesn't have as much "fun factor" as WoW did.

[Gargamellow]

wow is very fun

[Tacks]

Both games are very fun.

I haven't had enough time in EQ2 to give a fair assessment though.

[Gargamellow]

i haven't played much of eq2..tried it briefly..maybe a few minutes?

[Snero]

I do think that wow could use either an aa system or some other form of character advancement, if you're raiding (and don't need to farm insane amounts of crap for potions and shit for nax) there really is very little reason to log in and keep playing outside of raids. I'm working on my AD faction but it's more out of a lack of something productive to do. In EQ they had a pretty decent balance, the AAs didn't give you too much for the most part, they weren't drawing a make or break line where your character needed it to do it's job but it still gave you something to do. I maxed my AA every EQ expansion, and the feeling I had when that was done is the exact same feeling I have playing wow when I finished leveling and my gear good enough so that i couldn't really get anything new from instances.

I don't think talents and AAs are a very valid comparison, AAs gave minor skill/abilities or character improvements (with some exceptions of course, some aas totally kicked ass and changed the way you could play your character) and talents are something every body has, but spent in different areas. For the most part though, talents were supposed to create these big differences between characters in the same class but it only really creates a couple different templates. Priests for example either go holy/disc or shadow and most shadow have the same talent line up and most holy/disc priests have the same set up.

Wow is a fun game but I do wish they put in some sort of character progression that you could work over a long time period (really long quests with great results like the BiC EQ quest would be interesting)

[Gargamellow]

I want your Canadian bacon.

[Tacks]

The point is that with AA's everyone ends up the same if they play long enough, the only deciding factor then becomes gear. With Talents most classes have 3 viable options to go for. Most raiders won't do too well in pvp depending on what job they do and there's still an element of surprise for whats coming at you. But then again why would it even matter in EQ because like I said, there's no reason for character advancement other than to become stronger in order to become even stronger to then kill computer mobs to become even stronger etc etc

[Gargamellow]

if people are max exp..they are the kind of people who will work to get the rare pieces of gear and it is worth it to them..the competition is insane

i have never been one of those fancy AA having, gear toting, raid loving ubers....but i knew some of em last time i played eq

i don't know who all is max exp, but i bet their gear owns

The point is that with AA's everyone ends up the same if they play long enough, the only deciding factor then becomes gear.

gear is fun to get ..that is my point

[Arlos]

I know they eventually plan to, with the introduction of Hero Classes. It was something they talked about in Beta a lot, but have been quiet about for a while now. Basically, the reason why was given in an interview with one of the lead devs, might have even been Pardo, where they stated that they knew that they HAD to get Hero Classes right, the first time, or they'd be killing their game completely.

So, I am sure we'll see it at some point, but when, I dunno. It's possible they've got a level target in mind before introducing the hero classes, and we hadn't reached it pre-expansion, and may not even WITH the expansion. Remember, they originally talked about there being 7 tiers of raid zones in the game, and even with the Expansion, we're only at tier 4. There's no Emerald Dream, no Maelstrom, no Northrend, and we're not even close to Mt Hyjal. We've got a long way to go before we hit the high end of what was planned for in the original game design document.

-Arlos

[Snero]

thats the point of AA though, it's not necessarily to create diversity within a class, it's to give you a reason to keep playing. Its that kind of decision that helps create the community. EQ has made a whole lot of horrible decisions, they've made a lot that nearly killed the community but they still did come up with some good ideas. I don't have much interest in pvp, so being in a raiding guild in wow, what is my incentive to log in outside of raid time? there really isn't much for me to do. You are right with EQ pvp though, it's horrible, the balance is non existent.

[Gargamellow]

well that is the beauty of mmorpg...can be edited at any time after clicking i agree

[Snero]

I know they eventually plan to, with the introduction of Hero Classes. It was something they talked about in Beta a lot, but have been quiet about for a while now. Basically, the reason why was given in an interview with one of the lead devs, might have even been Pardo, where they stated that they knew that they HAD to get Hero Classes right, the first time, or they'd be killing their game completely.

So, I am sure we'll see it at some point, but when, I dunno. It's possible they've got a level target in mind before introducing the hero classes, and we hadn't reached it pre-expansion, and may not even WITH the expansion. Remember, they originally talked about there being 7 tiers of raid zones in the game, and even with the Expansion, we're only at tier 4. There's no Emerald Dream, no Maelstrom, no Northrend, and we're not even close to Mt Hyjal. We've got a long way to go before we hit the high end of what was planned for in the original game design document.

-Arlos

and this is something EQ really needed, imo as far as lore went they blew their load on PoP and it was all downhill from there (lore, not encounters)

[Naethyn]

This goes back to the pve vs pvp arguement on this board some time ago.

PVE servers play PVE to get better at PVE
PVP servers play PVE to get better at PVP

I strongly believe that pvp is superior to anything else. It gave me a drive to become better unlike anything ever has in a video game.

With that said, I didn't play EQ for pvp. I played it for the excitement and adventure of another world.

I played wow to kill other players. It is much more like any FPS. Its true that the environment can make a big difference on game play, but at the heart it is all about the pvp.