World of Warcraft passes 50% total market share

[Captain Insano]

They, as in the designers of the game, have said flat out that it will be coming out with many of the zones to be virtually devoid of content. That is unfinished.

Yeah? Provide a reference.

PS. they don't have 'zones'

buy a clue alex or stfu

[Menlaan]

They, as in the designers of the game, have said flat out that it will be coming out with many of the zones to be virtually devoid of content. That is unfinished.

Yeah? Provide a reference.

PS. they don't have 'zones'

buy a clue alex or stfu

I'm not Alex. What's the matter, Ralf, can't find where they said "flat out" that large areas (assuming that's what you meant by 'zones') will be devoid of content?

Haha, stfu if you're just going to spew shit.

[Narrock]

They, as in the designers of the game, have said flat out that it will be coming out with many of the zones to be virtually devoid of content. That is unfinished.

Yeah? Provide a reference.

PS. they don't have 'zones'

buy a clue alex or stfu

I'm not Alex. What's the matter, Ralf, can't find where they said "flat out" that large areas (assuming that's what you meant by 'zones') will be devoid of content?

Haha, stfu if you're just going to spew shit.

It was an Alex Trebec reference, not the Brinstar Alex.

[Arlos]

I seriously doubt WoW encounters are harder than EQ encounters. The fact that you're referencing PoP era content makes your arguement really weak.

Uh, Drem, do you not remember my history? I was doing cutting edge EQ raid encounters in initial release (with FOW at that point, when we got Cazic Thule in fear), then Kunark, Velious, Luclin and PoP with Legacy of Steel. If you're trying to tell me that LOS wasn't doing cutting edge raiding for much of the life of EQ, I will laugh in your face. I finally left after moving and not getting internet in for 2 months, then came back to GoD which was so godawful that I couldn't deal with it.

So yes, I have about 4 years of experience at high end EQ raid encounters, and I STILL say that WoW raid encounters require much more planning, attention and coordination than just about any EQ raid encounter I ever experienced. Even something that took as much work as the AOW during velious was fundamentally a simple encounter; it was just that there was no possible way to keep a PC tank alive at the time we killed him. WoW strats, at least on many on-MC mobs, are IMPOSSIBLE to do with the old paradigm of single MT, chain-healed. Look at the C'Thun encounter design sometime.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Yes, Lineage and Lineage 2 were primarily asian games.

I fucking hate asians. Lineage 2 had some promise but it was too centered on ganking and being a prick.

P.S. Comparing AoW to any encounter is laughable for the very reason you already said. There was no "strategy" to speak of. It was kill kill kill and keep a tank alive, which was impossible for the longest time. (unless you were charming the giants, until they nerfed that)

[Arlos]

You misunderstood: The strategy component of that encounter was negligible. The amount of coordination necessary to successfully kill it at that point was VERY high, however. Plus, without high end coordination and execution, we wouldn't have gotten it down with PC tanking pre-luclin.

Nevertheless, comparing the necessary strategies for WoW raid encounters to EQ raid encounters is night and day. So is a comparison between NECESSARY attention/execution/cohesion for an EQ encounter and a WoW encounter. Something like Aten, top boss in SOL, the only reason melee DPS couldn't turn on auto-attack and go play playstation was the knockback, forcing you to run 10 feet back again to get in range. Oooh, tough, not.

I encourage you, look at what's necessary for the C'Thun fight, the Huhuran fight, or perhaps the Ebonroc fight, etc. etc. etc. There's no comparison.

-Arlos

[Tae-Bo]

yeah i dont get why people are saying eq raiding is harder than wow's it's pretty much common knowledge across any mmo board where people played both that raid dynamics past MC and bwl are way beyond anything in eq

[Captain Insano]

They, as in the designers of the game, have said flat out that it will be coming out with many of the zones to be virtually devoid of content. That is unfinished.

Yeah? Provide a reference.

PS. they don't have 'zones'

buy a clue alex or stfu

I'm not Alex. What's the matter, Ralf, can't find where they said "flat out" that large areas (assuming that's what you meant by 'zones') will be devoid of content?

Haha, stfu if you're just going to spew shit.

This was the question asked by a dev to the VGuard community:

What reasons can you think of to visit the ends of the earth, to visit
the uninteresting areas? Keep in mind, these areas may not have any compelling points of interest, or any real special NPC population. What /game mechanics/ not content could pull you to these areas?

Translation: Not all zones will be filled with content at release. If we can find the time to put something in the zone what would you like us to put there?

The whole story is here:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-g ... ey-go.html


The way I read that interview/thread whatever is that VG is in its infancy even after 4 years in development. It doesn't sound very reassuring.

[Captain Insano]

yeah i dont get why people are saying eq raiding is harder than wow's it's pretty much common knowledge across any mmo board where people played both that raid dynamics past MC and bwl are way beyond anything in eq

hey aren't you and some people on this board playing on a PVP server? Are you still doing that and how do you like it?

Are you guys horde / alliance?

Also how is the rogue in the scheme of PVP and how do they pan out DPS wise in raids?

Whats the best race for rogue in PVP too?

[Tae-Bo]

me and a buncha people that hang out in irc together from eq days (manalope, arakys, escoe the lodizal farmer, korelor, fuffalo, rhap and some other thugs) were playing together for awhile on a pvp server yeah but the server (hakkar) on horde was full of rejects from other servers and the quality guild choices were zero so must of us said fuck it and stopped playing or went to diff servers (i quit for my 2nd time)

i dont see myself playing again cus i just dont give a fuck anymore about progressing myself in a game, i just want to log on and own shit non-stop

i've only played on pvp servers, pros:

* always have to be paying attention
* there's times where you can just pull off crazy shit that you wouldn't normally be able to do in a bg
* if some faggot is in a camp you want just slaughter them over and over until they get the point and leave
* world pvp is serious fun, we used to camp theramore isle docks with 3 or 4 people, it's just a long dock with the boat on a 3 minute timer, so you'd have people coming from both sides trying to get on or off the boat, and we'd just hold the docks for like 45 min, if shit gets hairy commandeer the boat and hide until the next zone and just own people as they come on

blackcock mountain is fun pvp too

* killing people that try to gank you is fun too
* outdoor bosses are cool unless you have faggy cross-faction guild alliances, can be frustrating though if your guild gets owned, but stuff like little 1 or 2 groups trying to harrass your raid and having to pay attention to a boss mob and kill people at the same time is cool
* shit talking and drama
* can gank low levels if you want for shits and giggles (manalope used to do this all day, i'm a little more big hearted tho)
* i really do think you tend to become a better player from the combination of having to pay full attention to not get ganked, and having to adapt early on to different things happening around you

cons:
* tends to attract faggots (i think but then again i can't stand housewives and 45 year old manginas)
* some people can't handle being ganked, i dont give a fuck but some people take it personally or something
* there's no real "point" to world pvp, as in you can't really expect to obtain item advancement through world pvp as you would from BG pvp, but there are some perks to being able to kill whoever you want
* being corpse camped by high levels can be gay but you can avoid it if you just res in a good spot and move somewhere else


and rogues are pretty damn good in world pvp, free choice on who you want to fight and when you want to fight them... pretty much the best solo pvp class out there (just dont get wrapped up on duel-type 1 on 1 fights because some rogues get stuck in that mindset and tend to suck cock in group pvp dynamics where the real bread and butter is)

in bg pvp i'd imagine stuff like alterac valley huge zerg battles being annoying as fuck, once you come unstealthed you're pretty much cannon fodder for ranged classes so you gotta be really tricky on which targets you choose and you gotta really actively try to avoid being owned

in warsong gulch and arathi basin they're damn good, i'm not sure what their complaints are in these situations but from everything i've seen and heard they're useful as fuck in these

best race for pvp is undead, will of the forsaken just owns, however the blood elf racial looks like it's gonna be sweet as fuck for rogues (8 yard ae silence, when it hits a target with mana you gain 20 energy)

and in raids rogues generally top the dps meters depending on the fight, if they have free reign to go all out without fear of agro or AE damage or resist gear i don't really think any other class can top them (other than maybe the odd fury warrior but they're super limited by agro so in most fights they have to hold back quite a bit)

rogues have pretty good agro reduction abilities (not as good as hunter tho....... but hunter doesnt have the raw dps ability that rogues has, although they can top dm meters on occasion) so unlike a mage or warrior or warlock they can pump out a ton of damage without fear (most of the time)

yeah

[Arlos]

Rogues are, as you might expect, the gankmasters. One on one, they'll die to mages, or warlocks with a succubus out.

As for BEST, I dunno, there's advantages to each race

Alliance:
Gnome: Small, so harder to see, and they get the racial innate ability to break snares/roots, which helps lots against mages, hunters, etc.
Dwarf: Stoneform removes poisons, helps lots vs other rogues.
Night Elf: Shadowform gives you effectively 2 free talent points in the "harder to detect while stealthed" talent.

Horde:
Orc: Stun resist = the own.
Undead: Will Of The Forsaken. 'nuff said.
Troll: Can generate extra DPS when below 50% health.


So, up to you.

-Arlos

[Naethyn]

If you plan to play solo on a pvp server I wouldnt recommend a rog. Easiest gank is a rog solo'ing a mob. I played a hunter for a long time and they have great strengths as well as even bigger weaknesses. In my general experience warriors own everything. Every person I knew had a warrior twink or dropped thier main to play a warrior.

[Tae-Bo]

warriors are fun but there's no chance to get crazy solo with multiple classes unless you pop a 30 min cool down

[Menlaan]

This was the question asked by a dev to the VGuard community:

What reasons can you think of to visit the ends of the earth, to visit
the uninteresting areas? Keep in mind, these areas may not have any compelling points of interest, or any real special NPC population. What /game mechanics/ not content could pull you to these areas?

Translation: Not all zones will be filled with content at release. If we can find the time to put something in the zone what would you like us to put there?

The whole story is here:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-g ... ey-go.html


The way I read that interview/thread whatever is that VG is in its infancy even after 4 years in development. It doesn't sound very reassuring.

You're reading into the questions asked of beta testers, the purpose of which was to channel feedback in a productive fashion and to curtail the pointless arguing that was going on within the Beta boards.

This is certainly not "flat out" saying that there will be large areas of no content at release. I'm not saying that it might not end up that way, but to say that the devs are already (i.e. 6+ months away from release) admitting that they won't have sufficient content for their world is ridiculous.

[Minrott]

I don't know how WoW encounters couldn't take more strats than EQ high end. I was there for the first Avatar of War and all I remember is LoS inviting 90+ of the higher end of the server into the raid with a plan that went something like "Hit the big guy, res tanks first"

And that I tried to log everybodies damage to parse and LD'd 3 times. lol.

[Lyion]

WOW Raids are a bit more innovative, and you can see the LOS/Tigole FOH/Furor hand in stealing and advancing many good ideas taken from years of raiding in EQ.

There's one point that is missed. It's a bit easier to plan encounters and have harder raids when there is no fear of death.

A wipeout in North TOV was devastating and nasty. A wipeout in BWL, even a pain in the ass one like Broodlord, only mildly annoying.

In EQ advancing through endgame mobs was a pretty large acheivement. The same really isn't true in WOW. The biggest enemy we seem to fight in WOW is the gawd awful lag we seem to hit in AQ or BWL.

Also, the instancing makes raiding an open game, without any sort of drama, which also adds to its simplicity and straight forwardness, which was vacant in EQ. The biggest villains we generally faced in EQ aren't present in WOW, the other guilds and the countdown timer to a Glubgawd type person training us...

[Snero]

I see people comparing wow raiding to stuff like luclin, or AoW, of course it's going to seem a lot simplier, I can't speak from personal experience because I've never done any wow raiding but eq raiding got a WHOLE lot more complex in oow and has been that way from then on. In terms of difficulty and strategy, mata muram is on a while other level from AoW, and they kept that sort of thing up in the new expansions. AoW was the last mob that really had no abilities and was just an ass beater, now everything has scripts, AEs, different abilities

[Agrajag]

WOW Raids are a bit more innovative, and you can see the LOS/Tigole FOH/Furor hand in stealing and advancing many good ideas taken from years of raiding in EQ.

There's one point that is missed. It's a bit easier to plan encounters and have harder raids when there is no fear of death.

A wipeout in North TOV was devastating and nasty. A wipeout in BWL, even a pain in the ass one like Broodlord, only mildly annoying.

In EQ advancing through endgame mobs was a pretty large acheivement. The same really isn't true in WOW. The biggest enemy we seem to fight in WOW is the gawd awful lag we seem to hit in AQ or BWL.

Also, the instancing makes raiding an open game, without any sort of drama, which also adds to its simplicity and straight forwardness, which was vacant in EQ. The biggest villains we generally faced in EQ aren't present in WOW, the other guilds and the countdown timer to a Glubgawd type person training us...

Have you even played WoW? You speak like you haven't, except for the WoW lag which anyone could know about from reading a message board. The boss encounters from Baron in Strat all the way up to C'Thun ALL require some sort of strat and orginization to beat. There isn't one major boss in the game that you just chain heal the tank. You cannot say that about EQ.

I take that back. Vael is kind of like that. The priests chain cast Holy Nova near their groups to keep them alive. And if you get caught with BA your run out of range of your group while spam casting on Vael. Thats pretty much the entire encounter 7-10 minute encounter.

[Agrajag]

hey aren't you and some people on this board playing on a PVP server? Are you still doing that and how do you like it?

Are you guys horde / alliance?

Also how is the rogue in the scheme of PVP and how do they pan out DPS wise in raids?

Whats the best race for rogue in PVP too?

I play on a PvP server, Horde side (Dethecus). I have a 60 rogue which I use to farm. Rogues are best for farming and ganking/ griefing (sp). My 60 priest I use for raids. I also have a couple AF on the same server that I use as spies.

D. Duck pretty much summed it up. PvP teaches you to stay on your toes and react in accordance to your environment. You learn to always watch your back and it gives the game a certain edge. Sometimes I still catch my heart start to beat faster when I am getting ganked or doing the ganking.

My favorite thing to do is to go to Blackrock Mountain on my priest and Mind Control people as they come out of the tunnel. Then I send them into the lava to burn. That usually only lasts 30 minutes max until the rest of their party or raid beats me down.

Best race for a rogue to be is undead for the Will of the Foresaken. Only way to beat priests. Unless you go stunlock rogue, but there is always the chance for the priest to sneak in a fear.

[Snero]

You cannot say that about EQ.

yes you can, unless you're talking content from 3 years ago

[Agrajag]

You cannot say that about EQ.

yes you can, unless you're talking content from 3 years ago

3 years ago is still part of the current game, yes? I am talking about the ENTIRE game and content. Comparing all of WoW to all of EQ. So, yes, I can say that...

[Snero]

it's a retarded comparison though, you're comparing a game in 2006, to a game in 2003. Current high end content in EQ is nothing like it was back in vellious with mobs like tormax or AoW

[Lyion]

Even content from back then was more challenging then he lets on, but I'd guess Ag never was in a top tier EQ guild, and really has no basis for good comparison. Velious raiding in 2003/04 doesn't really give you a good model for comparison, sorry.

You also completely missed my overlying point that encounters can require more strategy, but be much easier when there are less penalties. Then again, you didnt raid stuff cutting edge early or late, most likely in EQ so you may want to rethink trying to be haughty, or at least discuss it with someone from EQ who actually has knowledge, like Snero instead of making wild bold statements that make you look silly.

[Agrajag]

instead of making wild bold statements that make you look silly.

Isn't that your forte?

I actually did raid high end content before I left EQ in 2004. Never went back to EQ after WoW.

[Snero]

see thats the thing, I am not saying wow encounters aren't more complicated or harder or anything along those lines, all i'm saying is that somebody who hasn't seen recent eq end game is not in a position to compare the two. EQ end game is nothing like it was back in 2003-2004.

Out of curiousity, what was the last raid mob you downed in eq?