Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Arlos » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:25 pm

Liberals are “supposed” to represent tolerance and understanding, yet through the past several months all I’ve heard from them is hate and venom. The voters are not blind to this.


Uh, have you actually listened to the speeches and the campaign ads for the last few months? The McCain side has been nothing but negative, negative, negative. Hell, just compare Obama's speech at the convention to Palin's or Thompson's, say. Night and day. The entire Republican convention was nothing but negative and hate and venom. I think you're once again spouting opinion with zero fact to back it up.

If Obama gets elected this country will fall to pieces. We’ll see many more terrorist attacks, your taxes will sky rocket, crime will also sky rocket, jobs will be lost in droves, and government will grow by leaps and bounds.


What absolute stunning grade-A steaming bullshit. Just the premise that Democrats won't try and protect the country is utterly and laughably false just to begin with. Remember, 9/11 happened under BUSH'S watch. You seem to forget that.

As for taxes, you're laughably off there too. How about you check snopes, huh? http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp

Funny, I see EVERYONE making less than 225k a year paying LESS taxes under Obama than they pay now. Also, the people who most need a cut, the people who don't have much anyway, get the biggest cuts. Yes, if you make over 3 mil a year, you'll pay more taxes under Obama. Funny, I can't exactly summon up vast amounts of sympathy for the plight of someone whose personal income is > 3+ mil a year.

Once again, you rant base on falsehoods, where fact is easily available.

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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Gypsiyee » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:41 am

Far left liberals have done an excellent job of painting themselves as holier than thou people who think they know what’s better for you than you do.


Uh, are you kidding me?

Where the hell is all this "elitist" bs coming from talking about people on the left? Dear god man, elitist rich pompous ass that doesn't give a shit about Joe Everyman is prominent on the RIGHT, not the other way around.

Diekan, you're a smart man who I disagree with 90% of the time, but you're still a smart man. Why are you spewing this crap? You sound like Mindia. How can you possibly compare Kerry to Obama - most democrats were lukewarm to Kerry at best; supporters for Obama are turning up in record numbers. He would be better suited compared to Bill Clinton, as their platforms are all but identical, and Clinton was elected for two terms as well - Bush was elected a second time due to 1. Nader, who had a decent support base as an independent 2. Indifference to Kerry and his inability to motivate a strong support base and 3. questionable voting practices, not necessarily in that order. It was not because more people supported Bush or were anti-left.

About taxes, go to http://www.taxpolicy.org to get an analysis from people who specialize in it. Obama's tax plan gives the majority of the country better take-home income than McCain's by 2%.

I understand you don't like the man or agree with his policies, but this most recent post of yours is absolute inaccurate drivel -- a nosedive from the well-read posts that you've given us lately.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:29 am

Geez Diek, you are sounding so much like mindia, just WOW.

Evermore, all I'm saying is making somthing illegal makes it harder to get, sorry that you don't agree but that is why laws exist.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Harrison » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:59 am

ClakarEQ wrote:Evermore, all I'm saying is making somthing illegal makes it harder to get, sorry that you don't agree but that is why laws exist.



*blink*

I've read some seriously naive shit before...but, wow.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:31 am

Harrison wrote:
ClakarEQ wrote:Evermore, all I'm saying is making somthing illegal makes it harder to get, sorry that you don't agree but that is why laws exist.



*blink*

I've read some seriously naive shit before...but, wow.

You guys are being a bit on the toolish side here, though I shouldn't be shocked.

Obviously laws exist for lots of reasons, the context was in regards to my statement. If you disagree with me then you are essentially saying, making something illegal makes it EASIER to get, and you call me naive, WTF! I don't give a shit if you can pick up a gun in the slums of your neighborhood or city, or that you can get a bail of pot from the same guy. Try as you might, the statement is correct and you're attempts to deny it are rediculous.

Now I could see someone saying, making it illegal did not make it harder to get, but I'd like to see some real examples.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Harrison » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:39 am

You've been given real examples and you refuse to recognize them.

Making something illegal doesn't change its availability one fucking bit. What it does do is empower criminals with a now exclusive "right" to sell it in mass quantities with no regulations that would otherwise be in place if it were legalized, or at the very least, decriminalized.

The fear of going to jail is negligible to shitbags and lowlifes making obscene amounts of money. Off of guns, drugs, or anything else made illegal by a mass of ignorant lawmakers...

Maybe if you laid off of the aforementioned illegal drugs, you'd have half a brain left to grasp that.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Trielelvan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:51 am

ClakarEQ wrote:If you disagree with me then you are essentially saying, making something illegal makes it EASIER to get, and you call me naive, WTF!

No, no one stated that making something illegal made it easier to aquire. You went from one extreme to the other.

ClakarEQ wrote: I don't give a shit if you can pick up a gun in the slums of your neighborhood or city, or that you can get a bail of pot from the same guy. Try as you might, the statement is correct and you're attempts to deny it are rediculous.

Who said anything about slums? Anyway...
Indeed, the statement is, in fact, correct in that once something becomes "illegal" it is no longer "freely" distributed by normal legal means, e.g. the ability to buy a beer from the corner gas station as opposed to having to wait for Uncle Charlie's brew next week. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
Let me clarify: What is being disputed is that making something illegal somehow creates a deterrent which may yield positive results because people will obey the laws or because it is harder to obtain, and, therefore, not as likely to be obtained in the first place.
History has proven over and over again that this is simply not the case.

Now, I realize you were using it as a hypothetical solution, but as banning has oft been seen as a solution, well, here we are...

ClakarEQ wrote:Now I could see someone saying, making it illegal did not make it harder to get, but I'd like to see some real examples.

That is, in essence and in fact, precisely what we are all saying. At the very least, it is what I was saying. You have only to pay attention to what's around you to find real examples. You'd be quite surprised to find just how easy it is. I was.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Evermore » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:54 am

ClakarEQ wrote:Geez Diek, you are sounding so much like mindia, just WOW.

Evermore, all I'm saying is making somthing illegal makes it harder to get, sorry that you don't agree but that is why laws exist.


I understand what you are saying. What i am telling you is that unless properly enforced, laws dont make a damn bit of difference. they are just fodder for political discussions. How easy is it for you to get blow? or pot for instance? More laws dont mean shit. we need to reevaluate whats on the books now and make them more enforceable.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:40 am

I was making the assumption that most folks don't want to become criminals. I'll use guns again because that is what started this but understand this is just a discussion of hypotheticals.

Everyone today can go to kmart, walmart, etc and buy a gun.

Tomorrow gun sales are outlawed.

You can't go to kmart, walmart, etc and buy a gun. You are now required to break the law, seek out a criminal in gun sales, etc and I do not agree that "everyone" will do this. The same folks that break the law today will continue to do so but to assume law abiding folks will suddenly, knowingly, break the law to achieve their objective, I do not agree with.

Enforcement is a nice feature but not a requirement (although it should be, however to obtain this in our country we'd have to become a police state).

I think we all know law should be enforced but most folks don't want to pay for the enforcement. There is a reason why cops, firefighters, civil servants are being laid off, terminated, etc. That is a simplified statement because of all the reasons counties, townships, etc are going broke or over budget but if you want laws enforced I would expect a jump in taxes. Of course we can then get into the argument that too much is wasted already . . .
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Diekan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:53 am

I believe that this election is one of the most important in my life time. Whether we want to admit or accept it, the Democratic party has been traditionally viewed as weaker on National Security issues than their counterpart Republicans.

Whether or not the stereotype is true or even fair is another issue of debate. The fact remains. I personally don’t think it is. I think Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman would bomb the shit out of anyone that attacked us. I also think that Lieberman would make a decent Commander and Chief.

Again, this stereotype exists and it is partly do the actions, or rather inactions of previous (D) presidents. If you look back to the each party’s track record, going to back to Carter, you’ll see where this stereotype comes from.

Jimmy Carter (D) - after Iran took Americans hostage Carter made two weak attempts at getting them back. Two separate missions one of which never got off the ground. Our people were kept for years while Carter tried unsuccessfully to negotiate their release. MINUTES after Ronald Reagan was sworn in our people were released. Why? Because the no nonsense Reagan would have bombed them back to the stone ages, and Iran knew it. Carter’s refusal to employ the force necessary to bring our people home played right into Khomeini’s hands.

Ronald Reagan (R) – After Libyan terrorists bombed a disco in West Berlin (killing hundreds of people including Americans); Reagan bombed several sites in Libya, including Qaddafi’s palace.

George Bush Sr. (R) – Used military force to free Kuwait.

Bill Clinton (D) – After the World Trade Centers were bombed in 1993, Clinton’s response was to lob a couple of missiles into Afghanistan. Hitting nothing but an aspirin factory (I think). Not long after the USS Cole is attacked and 17 US sailors were killed – attacking a US warship in itself IS an act of war. But what did Clinton do? Nothing. Not only that but at one point in time bin Laden was in the cross hairs of a US missile and no order was given to take him out.

George Bush Jr. (R) – After 9/11 he sends the US military to Afghanistan to hunt down and kill those responsible. He also seriously screwed up by invading a country that had NOTHING to do with the attacks. Had he just stuck to Afghanistan I believe things would be much different.

Diplomacy with these people [terrorists] does not work, guys. You can talk until you’re blue in the face and all you’ll get in return in more suicide bombings and hijacked planes.

Personally, I don’t think it’s fair to label all Democrats as weak on national security – especially with the likes of Hillary and Lieberman in their ranks. I firmly believe there ARE some good Democrats that will do whatever is necessary to protect this country. However, in my opinion, Barack Obama is not one of them. You should note that I also believe there are some Republicans who I feel would choose inaction over force when legitimate threats rise against our nation.

So why then am I so adamantly against Obama serving as our Commander and Chief? Despite the fact the man has zero experience in foreign policy, despite the fact he has zero experience in or with the military… I’ll let you listen to his own words on why I think the way I do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

Now, some of the things he said I DO agree with. Why are we wasting money on unproven missile systems? I also agree with him that cutting wasteful spending is highly important. He’s got my support there – but where he takes a turn for the worst is: “I will not weaponize space?” Is he serious? Using space based missile systems is the BEST measure we have of shooting down incoming nuclear warheads. Lest we forget… Russia STILL has a rather large arsenal of nuclear missiles, as does China. Not to mention Iran’s desire to acquire them as well.

“I will slow our development of future combat systems?” Is he fucking insane? What message does that send to our enemies?

The rest of his speech is just as disturbing to me. Sure, I would LOVE a world where nuclear weapons didn’t exist nor were needed, but the reality is we have them, they are here, and sadly we do indeed need them. I hope to God we never see another mushroom cloud rising over ANY city regardless of where it is – but only a madman would want to disarm his own country of the weapons that have and continue to serve as a major deterrent to our enemies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcX_lv5 ... re=related

He was asked a simple and straight forward question and he completely tap danced around it! Not to mention he plans on using Clinton advisors? The same advisors that lead to the result of inaction taken on the WTC and USS Cole bombings? Seriously. Not to mention he wants to “change the mindset that got us into war.” Excuse me for a moment, but I thought what got us into war was the act of terrorists killing 3000 innocent American citizens on OUR soil. I agree, once again, that the Iraq was a complete and absolute fuck up on the Bush administrations part – but I hardly see how the “mindset” of the American people are responsible.

This isn’t about whether not I like or dislike him personally. I am sure he is a good man with good intentions as he sees them. But, he is simply too naïve and too inexperienced to take the helm as the country’s leader.

Finally, as I've said before. I don't hate "liberals" I think that the average liberal is a decent, hardworking, intelligent American who wants to go work, raise their families, take vacations once a year and enjoy the freedoms as provided by the Constitution. Just as their conservative counterparts do. I DO have my issues with liberalism, even though I happen to ascribe to some of its beliefs (e.g the environment, animal rights, etc). What bothers me is that the Democratic party has indeed been hijacked by the extreme left.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby leah » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:18 pm

this is driving me crazy . . . isn't it "commander-in-chief"? diek keeps saying "commander and chief," which is accurate i guess but isn't it incorrect?? semantics . . .

also: i must run in completely different crowds or just be from a completely different part of the country, because i have absofreakinglutely no clue how to get pot, blow, or illegal guns, hehe . . . i mean, i know a couple people who could probably point me in the right direction of where to get pot at least, but otherwise i have no clue :dunno: if it's not readily available at walgreens, then i don't know where to get it.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Diekan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:21 pm

yep ur right it IS commander-IN-chief.... my bad.
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby Evermore » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:25 pm

leah wrote:this is driving me crazy . . . isn't it "commander-in-chief"? diek keeps saying "commander and chief," which is accurate i guess but isn't it incorrect?? semantics . . .

also: i must run in completely different crowds or just be from a completely different part of the country, because i have absofreakinglutely no clue how to get pot, blow, or illegal guns, hehe . . . i mean, i know a couple people who could probably point me in the right direction of where to get pot at least, but otherwise i have no clue :dunno: if it's not readily available at walgreens, then i don't know where to get it.



this is because you live in the boonies.

lol j/k
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Re: Republican VP with strong ties to big oil

Postby brinstar » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:53 pm

making things illegal DOES make them harder to get FOR MOST PEOPLE
compost the rich
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