Rove is source of Plame leak, according to Rove's own lawyer

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Rove is source of Plame leak, according to Rove's own lawyer

Postby Arlos » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:11 pm

Discuss:

Associated Press wrote:WASHINGTON (AP) -- For two years, the White House has insisted that presidential adviser Karl Rove had nothing to do with the leak of a CIA officer's identity. And President Bush said the leaker would be fired.

But Bush's spokesman wouldn't repeat any of those assertions Monday in the face of Rove's own lawyer saying his client spoke with at least one reporter about Valerie Plame's role at the CIA before she was identified in a newspaper column.

Rove described the woman to a reporter as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA, according to an e-mail obtained by Newsweek magazine.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan refused to discuss the matter at two news briefings Monday. He said he would not comment because the leak is the focus of a federal criminal investigation.

"The prosecutors overseeing the investigation had expressed a preference to us that one way to help the investigation is not to be commenting on it from this podium," McClellan said in response to a barrage of questions about Rove and the previous White House denials.

"I'm well aware, like you, of what was previously said," McClellan said. "And I will be glad to talk about it at the appropriate time." He said the appropriate time would be when the investigation is completed.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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Postby mappatazee » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:11 pm

About time someone made a thread about it. I was thinking I might have to do so myself.

<a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2005/TRANSCRIPT_WHITE_HOUSE_GRILLED_0711.html" target=blank>TRANSCRIPT: WHITE HOUSE GRILLED ON ROVE</a>
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Postby Lyion » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:11 pm

Great sum up here

So let's review - Wilson lied about how he got to Niger, he lied about seeing a report that didn't even exist at the time, he lied about the conclusions of his own report(!), he lied about what the administration had been told, and his wife, Valerie Plame, specifically sent him on a mission to intentionally debunk a claim, not to find facts or perform inspections. I'd say the WaPo's conclusion is pretty sound on this one.

Also, it certainly gives life to the question of why the heck these two lied so darn much in absence of a clear and compelling political agenda driving their every move. Let's not rush to make these partisan hacks into saints - they attempted to cook the books against the administration and got busted for being the compulsive liars that they are. In the course of attempting to discredit the ludicrously false claims, someone in the White House (presumably Rove) told the press that Wilson was sent to Niger on dubious premises in the first place (the recommendation of his wife), without giving the name of Wilson's wife, which Rove apparently did not know.

When this story first broke on the scene, I thought that Rove should properly be banished from the administration team, despite the fact that even at that time it was pretty clear that no crime took place. However, given the serial and politically motivated lies of Wilson and Plame, it's clear that the fairy tale the liberals have constructed in which Plame was the heroic CIA agent unjustly outed by Arch-Demon Karl Rove is totally and completely false - and I won't be shedding any more tears about either of their fates.



Boortz weighs in with common sense about this, although I expect the far left whacko's to go crazy about this.


Karl Rove's back in the soup again. It's come out now for sure that he told a Time reporter that Joseph Wilson's trip to Niger was authorized by his wife, who worked at the CIA. It's a crime to disclose the identity of a CIA agent. So Rove's done, right? Slap on the cuffs? Off to jail? Well, not really. Despite giddy Democrats absolute joy at the thought of Rove being charged, it's not going to happen. Let's look at the facts, shall we?

1.) According to Newsweek, none of the reporter's notes indicate Rove gave Valerie Plame's name. Without a name, Rove's off the hook.

2.) If he did give the name, that violates something called the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. That act makes it a crime to disclose the identity of a "covert agent." What does that mean?

3.) No one has publicly established whether or not Valerie Plame (Wilson's wife) was even a covert agent. A covert agent is defined by the law as an agent who has served outside the United States in the last five years. If she was an analyst riding the WMD desk at the CIA, that's not a covert agent.

So if Rove didn't give her name, he's clear. If he did give the name and she doesn't meet the definition of a covert agent, he's clear. The media won't let this one go, though. This is going to be Karl Rove week in the press.

Also, expect more Democrats to want to start an impeachment inquiry. It's all they've got these days.
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Postby Tossica » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:24 pm

Haha. Rove gets busted being a traitorous son of a bitch and noone cares. Classic.
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Postby mofish » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:31 pm

Since its a neo-con's fault, all of a sudden she wasnt even covert. Right. If this were a democrat's fault, I would be reading posts about how Treason can be punished with execution during wartime.
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Postby Rust » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:51 pm

If Rove didn't know she was a covert agent, he's not a criminal. It's entirely possible he was told 'Wilson was sent to Niger on his wife's idea, she works for the CIA' and no more.

I think the hair-splitting on 'did she serve overseas' or 'as long as he didn't give her name' as opposed to maybe just 'his wife is in the CIA'.

I don't think Rove would have given her name out if he knew she was a covert agent. But it was blatant punishment to Wilson and his wife for his speaking out.

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Postby mofish » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:57 pm

Rove was fired in 1992 from the Bush 41 re-election campaign for the same damn thing, even down to Robert Novak being involved. 2nd time around for this one :

http://dailykos.com/story/2005/7/2/231117/1028

"If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of. I welcome the investigation. I am absolutely confident the Justice Department will do a good job. I want to know the truth."

GW Bush, Feb 11, 2004
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Postby Drem » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:04 pm

Even if he didn't know for sure or not, it's not information you should let out and then claim the fifth about. He should be fired, but then Bush wouldn't know how to run the country anymore.
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Postby Tuggan » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:07 pm

gwb jr might actually do something other than cater to the mindias of the country. sounds horrible.
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Postby Lyion » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:13 am

We'll see. If it was outing a Covert Agent, he should get in trouble. The problem is there are too many holes right now.

When this story first broke on the scene, I thought that Rove should properly be banished from the administration team, despite the fact that even at that time it was pretty clear that no crime took place. However, given the serial and politically motivated lies of Wilson and Plame, it's clear that the fairy tale the liberals have constructed in which Plame was the heroic CIA agent unjustly outed by Arch-Demon Karl Rove is totally and completely false - and I won't be shedding any more tears about either of their fates.
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Postby Eziekial » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:07 am

You read DailyKos, mofish?
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Postby Arlos » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:23 am

Yeah, Lyion, that's SUCH an unbiased source you're quoting. Care to add some Rush Limbaugh, Hannity or maybe some John Birch Society writers?

From their mission statement:
RedState.org is focused on politics, and seeks the construction of a Republican majority in the United States. ... Our objective is not to centralize or to direct, but to provide a rallying point for the Right


My quote was from the Associated Press, not CNN or some other organization you rightist wingnuts despise. You claim to be independent Lyion, but every time you quote people, you find columnists that think Joe McCarthy was entirely too liberal.

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Postby Lyion » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:41 am

I never said the source was unbiased, but what he said was spot on.
Everyone knows the AP and CNN are both completely unbiased, right? :cool6:
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Postby Eziekial » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:47 pm

Or Daily KOS. That's real unbias too :rolleyes:
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Postby Lyion » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:00 pm

Lawyer: Cooper “Burned” Karl Rove - Byron York
Rove’s attorney talks to NRO.

The lawyer for top White House adviser Karl Rove says that Time reporter Matthew Cooper "burned" Rove after a conversation between the two men concerning former ambassador Joseph Wilson's fact-finding mission to Niger and the role Wilson's wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame, played in arranging that trip. Nevertheless, attorney Robert Luskin says Rove long ago gave his permission for all reporters, including Cooper, to tell prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald about their conversations with Rove.


In an interview with National Review Online, Luskin compared the contents of a July 11, 2003, internal Time e-mail written by Cooper with the wording of a story Cooper co-wrote a few days later. "By any definition, he burned Karl Rove," Luskin said of Cooper. "If you read what Karl said to him and read how Cooper characterizes it in the article, he really spins it in a pretty ugly fashion to make it seem like people in the White House were affirmatively reaching out to reporters to try to get them to them to report negative information about Plame."

First the e-mail. According to a report in Newsweek, Cooper's e-mail to Time Washington bureau chief Michael Duffy said, "Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper said that Rove had warned him away from getting "too far out on Wilson," and then passed on Rove's statement that neither Vice President Dick Cheney nor CIA Director George Tenet had picked Wilson for the trip; "it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues who authorized the trip." Finally — all of this is according to the Newsweek report — Cooper's e-mail said that "not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an[d] suspect but so is the report. he [Rove] implied strongly that there's still plenty to implicate iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro[m] Niger..."

A few days after sending the e-mail, Cooper co-wrote an article headlined "A War on Wilson?" that appeared on Time's website. The story began, "Has the Bush administration declared war on a former ambassador who conducted a fact-finding mission to probe possible Iraqi interest in African uranium? Perhaps."

The story continued:

Some government officials have noted to Time in interviews (as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak) that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched to Niger to investigate reports that Saddam Hussein's government had sought to purchase large quantities of uranium ore, sometimes referred to as yellow cake, which is used to build nuclear devices.

Plame's role in Wilson's assignment was later confirmed by a Senate Intelligence Committee investigation.

Luskin told NRO that the circumstances of Rove's conversation with Cooper undercut Time's suggestion of a White House "war on Wilson." According to Luskin, Cooper originally called Rove — not the other way around — and said he was working on a story on welfare reform. After some conversation about that issue, Luskin said, Cooper changed the subject to the weapons of mass destruction issue, and that was when the two had the brief talk that became the subject of so much legal wrangling. According to Luskin, the fact that Rove did not call Cooper; that the original purpose of the call, as Cooper told Rove, was welfare reform; that only after Cooper brought the WMD issue up did Rove discuss Wilson — all are "indications that this was not a calculated effort by the White House to get this story out."

"Look at the Cooper e-mail," Luskin continues. "Karl speaks to him on double super secret background...I don't think that you can read that e-mail and conclude that what Karl was trying to do was to get Cooper to publish the name of Wilson's wife."

Nor, says Luskin, was Rove trying to "out" a covert CIA agent or "smear" her husband. "What Karl was trying to do, in a very short conversation initiated by Cooper on another subject, was to warn Time away from publishing things that were going to be established as false." Luskin points out that on the evening of July 11, 2003, just hours after the Rove-Cooper conversation, then-CIA Director George Tenet released a statement that undermined some of Wilson's public assertions about his report. "Karl knew that that [Tenet] statement was in gestation," says Luskin. "I think a fair reading of the e-mail was that he was trying to warn Cooper off from going out on a limb on [Wilson's] allegations."

Luskin also shed light on the waiver that Rove signed releasing Cooper from any confidentiality agreement about the conversation. Luskin says Rove originally signed a waiver in December 2003 or in January 2004 (Luskin did not remember the exact date). The waiver, Luskin continues, was written by the office of special prosecutor Fitzgerald, and Rove signed it without making any changes — with the understanding that it applied to anyone with whom he had discussed the Wilson/Plame matter. "It was everyone's expectation that the waiver would be as broad as it could be," Luskin says.

Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller have expressed concerns that such waivers (top Cheney aide Lewis Libby also signed one) might have been coerced and thus might not have represented Rove's true feelings. Yet from the end of 2003 or beginning of 2004, until last Wednesday, Luskin says, Rove had no idea that there might be any problem with the waiver.

It was not until that Wednesday, the day Cooper was to appear in court, that that changed. "Cooper's lawyer called us and said, "Can you confirm that the waiver encompasses Cooper?" Luskin recalls. "I was amazed. He's a lawyer. It's not rocket science. [The waiver] says 'any person.' It's that broad. So I said, 'Look, I understand that you want reassurances. If Fitzgerald would like Karl to provide you with some other assurances, we will.'" Luskin says he got in touch with the prosecutor — "Rule number one is cooperate with Fitzgerald, and there is no rule number two," Luskin says — and asked what to do. According to Luskin, Fitzgerald said to go ahead, and Luskin called Cooper's lawyer back. "I said that I can reaffirm that the waiver that Karl signed applied to any conversations that Karl and Cooper had," Luskin says. After that — which represented no change from the situation that had existed for 18 months — Cooper made a dramatic public announcement and agreed to testify.

A few other notes: Luskin declined to say how Rove knew that Plame "apparently" (to use Cooper's word) worked at the CIA. But Luskin told NRO that Rove is not hiding behind the defense that he did not identify Wilson's wife because he did not specifically use her name. Asked if that argument was too legalistic, Luskin said, "I agree with you. I think it's a detail."

Luskin also addressed the question of whether Rove is a "subject" of the investigation. Luskin says Fitzgerald has told Rove he is not a "target" of the investigation, but, according to Luskin, Fitzgerald has also made it clear that virtually anyone whose conduct falls within the scope of the investigation, including Rove, is considered a "subject" of the probe. "'Target' is something we all understand, a very alarming term," Luskin says. On the other hand, Fitzgerald "has indicated to us that he takes a very broad view of what a subject is."

Finally, Luskin conceded that Rove is legally free to publicly discuss his actions, including his grand-jury testimony. Rove has not spoken publicly, Luskin says, because Fitzgerald specifically asked him not to.
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Postby Malluas » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:30 am

sigh Wilson revealed his wife's name in his book before any of this,it would have come out eventually, she hadn't been in the field for 9 years aka does not fall under criminal actions according to the law, the people the wrote the law said Rove did nothing wrong....

there are differences between this and democrats revealing troop positions, plans , secret files on judges and CIA agents.

1. Democrats reveal stuff info that they aren't even allowed to see to see aka Durben and Harry Reed with countless Bush appointees.

2. During Iraq 1.. CNN got troop positions from countless unnamed leaders in the democratic party (aka senators)

1st one is a direct violation of senate rules and probably criminal. 2nd is traitorous.

Giving away a CIA agents name that isn't in the field illegal. For those bitching, you probably HATED the CIA now you are defending it? stupid

i can go on.

Rove went over board but did nothing illegal just kinda assholish.. OMG acting like an asshole in DC? shocker!


Arlos sorry to say AP is just as liberal as CNN is... as is Rueters. All you have to do is read the Headlines and titles of stories. But again your a liberal so it probably seems just fine :)
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:11 pm

When this story first came out, the media made it seem as if Valerie Plame's CIA undercover status had been blown - putting her and those working with her at great peril - by someone in the White House with an axe to grind. As if they had started calling random reporters to expose Plame, only stopping when they found one who would tell. It was outrageous that someone would stoop that low and difficult to understand why any reporter would actually report on it, let alone offer the scoundrel confidentiality.

My response was blunt: lock up anyone who was involved in Plame's cover being blown. This would include Dick Cheney, who I was sure was the culprit.

But it turns out that the events didn't unfold quite like that. As a result, there are many questions half or completely unanswered. Such as:

Was Plame really undercover?

If not, when was the last time she was?

Did Plame's imediate family and close friends know of her position in the CIA?

Was it public known in Washington political circles that Plame worked for the CIA?

How did Rove know Plame worked for the CIA?

What exactly was her job at the CIA when she was "fingered"?

Was Ambassador Wilson's trip to Niger really authorized by the White House as he has claimed?

Did his wife, Plame, have anything to do with arranging it?

Why did Time's reporter Matthew Cooper break his oath and reveal Rove as the source to his editor? And by e-mail of all things?

As much as I dislike Rove and loved seeing White House press secretary Scott McClellan get gangbanged by the media, this "scandal" is starting to look like more over-rated than that skank Paris Hilton.
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Postby Lyion » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:22 pm

Given Plame did this take in Vanity Fair in 02, I doubt she was trying to hide her identity.. Oh, and the daily commute to Langley might also have been a tip

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Postby dammuzis » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:24 am

didnt bush specificly say whomever leaked the name would be fired?
illegal or no Bush needs to keep his word
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Postby Lyion » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:08 am

No, he didn't. He said if anyone broke the law, they would be dealt with.

Rove didn't leak her name, didn't break the law, and was merely a prop in a silly grandstanding campaign by leftist people and a very biased media who could care less about the facts, as usual.
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Postby Kramer » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:37 am

so is he serious? :wtf:
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    Postby Phlegm » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:39 pm

    dammuzis wrote:didnt bush specificly say whomever leaked the name would be fired?
    illegal or no Bush needs to keep his word


    He probably wont fire Rove even if Rove leaked the name. He totally depend on Rove to form his policies and relies on Rove for advice. Besides, if he is like his father, his words wont mean much. Remember "Read my lips, no new taxes"?
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    Postby Diabolik » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:02 am

    lyion wrote:Given Plame did this take in Vanity Fair in 02, I doubt she was trying to hide her identity.. Oh, and the daily commute to Langley might also have been a tip

    Image


    Wrong. It's from <b>2004</b>. You're about 730 days off.
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    Postby Phlegm » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:17 am

    Here's today update from cbs/ap:

    President Bush said Monday that if anyone on his staff committed a crime in the CIA leak case, that person will "no longer work in my administration."

    At the same time, Mr. Bush yet again sidestepped a question on the role of his top political adviser, Karl Rove, in the matter.

    "We have a serious ongoing investigation here and it's being played out in the press," Mr. Bush said at an East Room news conference with the visiting prime minister of India.

    Mr. Bush's latest comments marked a change of language and emphasis from his past assertions that anyone involved in leaking the name of agent Valerie Plame would be fired.

    Mr. Bush said in June 2004 that he would fire anyone in his administration shown to have leaked information that exposed the identity of Plame, the wife of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, an outspoken critic of the president's Iraq policy.

    On Monday, however, he added the qualifier that it would have be shown that a crime was committed. Not all such disclosures necessarily rise to the level of crime


    full article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/ ... 9678.shtml
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    Postby Lyion » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:28 am

    Diabolik wrote:Wrong. It's from <b>2004</b>. You're about 730 days off.


    She did the Shoot in November of 03. That'd put you quite a few days off, too.
    The picture is irrelevent. She's as much a spy as Harrison is.

    There is nothing to this story
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