House Panel Seeks to Keep Schiavo Alive

[KaiineTN]

When we "pulled the plug" on my Dad he died within 24 hrs, don't think that was due to starving.. Also, we pulled the plug after he was in the vegatative state for less than 2 days, basically long enough for the doctors to do their tests and confirm that there was very little brain activity etc.. Also, organ donor.. I think they took just about everything they could, eyes, skin tissue, etc..

People who let loved ones sit in that state for years hoping for a miracle are retarded. Even if they do ever "wake up" they wouldn't know shit, probably couldn't talk or remember much of anything... Who do you know that would want to live like that? Shit their pants every day and stare at the ceiling?

[Martrae]

Tube was removed a little bit ago.

I find it disgusting that all those Anti-Abortion groups are using this poor woman to further their agenda, btw.

[araby]

I have a problem with the federal gov shoving their big ass heads into this situation.

I for one, though, have a DNR order and hope that it's honored. If I had to make this decision, I'd consider quality of life before anything else, as hard as that would be and I hope I never have to.

[Scoota McGee]

Just because she's a brain dead vegetable is no reason to kill her. Murder is murder. Besides, thousands of brain dead vegetables go on to live happy productive lives... Kizzie for instance

[mappatazee]

It's not murder. What makes them HAVE to funnel food into her?

[Scoota McGee]

Sarcasm

[Langston]

So we should pull the feeding tube out and let her slowly dessicate from dehydration and lack of nutrition.

Yes. That's humane. That's a nice slow death.. probably take about 4 days without liquids. What were we EVER thinking when we fed her before.

[Lyion]

Yes, it would be a shame if we stopped feeding her and her brain died and she went into a permanent vegatative state..... Oh wait

[The Kizzy]

When we "pulled the plug" on my Dad he died within 24 hrs, don't think that was due to starving.. Also, we pulled the plug after he was in the vegatative state for less than 2 days, basically long enough for the doctors to do their tests and confirm that there was very little brain activity etc.. Also, organ donor.. I think they took just about everything they could, eyes, skin tissue, etc..

People who let loved ones sit in that state for years hoping for a miracle are retarded. Even if they do ever "wake up" they wouldn't know shit, probably couldn't talk or remember much of anything... Who do you know that would want to live like that? Shit their pants every day and stare at the ceiling?

So you gave your Dad 2 whole days to recover? Maybe show some improvement? If my Dad went into a vegetive state, I think I would want more than 2 days worth of tests done before I killed him.

[The Kizzy]

She can breathe on her own, which means her brain is not dead, but it is damaged. She has smiled and laughed and reacted to voices before. She is not brain dead. Lets just kill all the retards, we can start with Finawin.


Finawin, you said in another post that speeders deserved to die, PICK A SIDE MAN!!

[Martrae]

That's all just subconscious action, Kizzy. The thing that make her HER isn't there anymore.

[kaharthemad]

a nice od of Morphine should do the trick. lets see..been a while since my days working red blankets...30mg is a high dose...so lets say 60mg to make sure it is done right. and boom DRT. quick, definently painless, and no damage to internal organs.

[Lyion]

Kizzie, her cortex still functions although its permanently scarred. That controls breathing and reflexive motion.

Her upper brain(real brain) is completely dead. She has no brain functions and will never do anything more than sit there in a permanent vegetative state. She has 0% chance of ever doing anything but recieving food directly into her stomach from a tube, and sitting there as a shell of a human being. Essentially a body working with no brain.

[Rust]

Her husband said she expressed a desire not to be kept alive in such a state. The courts agreed that she had in fact expressed such a desire.

She's being let die because the evidence showed she'd expressed that desire. It's the people who want her kept alive like a living corpse against her expressed wishes who should be ashamed.

--R.

[Lyion]

Being someone who is firmly against judges who legislate, I am also firmly opposed to other branches of the government who try to judiciate.

This case has been in court for years. This woman is BRAIN DEAD.

If you want to know what the court decided and why, click here. There is no nefarious plot. This has been through years of trials. Numerous doctors have been questioned. Numerous witnesses have been questioned.

It has been decided in the courts. If all these damned politicians would spend 1/2 their time they have wasted on this on REAL issues that are respective to their branches of the government, it would make more sense than trying to overrule a verdict they do not like that was done completely fair within the court systems, including appeals.

[Langston]

My issue with this is the manner by which they're "letting" her die. Starvation isn't humane. That's my entire point.

If you want to give her a lethal injection - fine. Problem is, that's against the law.

So what are you going to do?

Starve her to death or violate the law?

[Martrae]

Like I said at the beginning

Because we reserve quick and painless deaths for criminals. Law abiding citizens with cancer and other ailments have to die painfully.

[shiraz]

Watching the videos of her, she does not seem completely brain dead. I know that the doctors say that these are just reflexes, but she smiles, she makes sounds when her family is near, she appears annoyed when music is turned off. If you really try, you could probably make the case that all of human behavior is a reflex to some stimulus. Certainly that case has been made for animals. And the human brain is so far from being understood...perhaps she is brain dead, but I am still a bit skeptical. I've also heard that videos of her were kept out of all of these court cases where she was ruled a vegetable.

Anyhow, there are many other cases of people being kept alive with complex machinery, at a greater expense, because that is what the guardian wishes. There are others who live in extreme pain who want to die, but are not allowed to do so. And then starving someone to death, even if they are a vegetable, has to be one of the cruelest ways to die. It all seems very irrational to me.

[araby]

edit wrong thread sorry

[Lyion]

Watching the videos of her, she does not seem completely brain dead. I know that the doctors say that these are just reflexes, but she smiles, she makes sounds when her family is near, she appears annoyed when music is turned off. .

She makes the exact same motions and reflexes when someone isn't in the room. She does not recognize people. She does not interact. She is not there.

Again, her upper brain is dead. Her cortex barely functions. Starving her would be inhumane, except she can't recieve signals to her upper brain, so she wont be at all aware.

The video you see is one her Mother took over 4 hours and spliced together into 20 secs. Numerous professionals have visited her and reported to the court. She is brain dead and in a permanent vegatative state.

Read the Court link I posted, it explains both sides very well.

[KaiineTN]

When we "pulled the plug" on my Dad he died within 24 hrs, don't think that was due to starving.. Also, we pulled the plug after he was in the vegatative state for less than 2 days, basically long enough for the doctors to do their tests and confirm that there was very little brain activity etc.. Also, organ donor.. I think they took just about everything they could, eyes, skin tissue, etc..

People who let loved ones sit in that state for years hoping for a miracle are retarded. Even if they do ever "wake up" they wouldn't know shit, probably couldn't talk or remember much of anything... Who do you know that would want to live like that? Shit their pants every day and stare at the ceiling?

So you gave your Dad 2 whole days to recover? Maybe show some improvement? If my Dad went into a vegetive state, I think I would want more than 2 days worth of tests done before I killed him.

He showed no improvement, he actually got worse in those two days. At first, as he was laying there, unconcious, you could say something like "wiggle your toe," and then his toes would twitch.. The next day, there was no response to anything. We all knew he wouldn't want to live in that state, he talked about it with his own father many times.

I actually wanted more time. I proposed letting "fate" decide how long to leave him in there. He had a scratch off lottery ticket and a penny in his coat pocket, I said if it was a winner, I want him alive for however many days the winning ticket is worth in dollars, I scratched, it was a 5 dollar winner, but my proposal didn't fly with the rest of the family. That ticket is still in his coat pocket in my closet, and that penny is laminated to the back of his obituary. ;p

Regardless, I think his brain was without oxygen for somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes, and that's more than enough time to do all the damage needed to essentially "erase" the conciousness itself inside the body.

[The Kizzy]

I thought about this some, and I am a little irriated at the hypocrisy in this thread. My view on abortion was brought up. Would I ever have an abortion? I can say with 95% certainty that NO, I would not. I also say that it is not my place to choose or judge what another woman does with her body. Finawin, for example believes no woman has the right to abort a fetus.

Finawin, this woman is being kept alive by a feeding tube, and in essence that is how a fetus is kept alive, by a sort of feeding tube, the ambilical cord. So if science found away to detach the ambilical cord from a fetus, letting it starve to death, would that be acceptable to you? Guess I am not the only one being hypocritcal here.

[Azlana]

I don't personally care about this particular case one way or the other, but I *do* believe in the right to die, and hopefully more people will make living wills including what they would like to have happen to them in a worst case scenario, so there is no more of these 'oh no what should we do' media extravaganzas.

[Lyion]

a fetus is kept alive, by a sort of feeding tube, the ambilical cord. So if science found away to detach the ambilical cord from a fetus, letting it starve to death, would that be acceptable to you? Guess I am not the only one being hypocritcal here.

The difference being is a Fetus past 20 weeks is cognizant, can think, feel pain, communicate, and rationalize. Terry Schiavo can do none of those things.

If your doctor came to you and said you had a baby inside you growing without a brain, would you carry it to term? I certainly wouldn't expect any woman to and this is not a 'right to life' issue.

She is in a permanent vegatative state. Everything that once made her Terry Schiavo is now gone, and she's merely a shell lying there breathing with no brain activity whatsoever. This lady has told her friends and husband if she was in a state similar to this, she would prefer death. The court has determined she should be allowed to pass on since her brain has been dead since 1990. Being it's gone through years of the court process, I believe this is the correct thing to do, and the bigger travesty is the gargantuan amount of misinformation being spread.

[The Kizzy]

We disagree. Nothing you can say will change my mind. If it were my child, I would fight tooth and nail to keep that breathing tube in, and I think you would do the same, Lyion.