Southern Baptist Churches propose exit from public schools

[horhay boosh]

Mindia thinks that christians are the majority because of the 66% stat thrown around by people who say they believe in God....

1) believing in god has little to do with someone living as a christian.. do you really think the country would look like it does if everyone who said they belived in god acted as Christ did...?

2) nowhere in the bible does it say that christians are supposed to go around demanding their rights.... in fact christ lived the exact opposite way....

3) to call science that you don't beleive in, that people who are infinitely more intelligent than you are come up with, doesn't make you faithful, it makes you a shallow and frightened mindless ass

[Yamori]

I would rather have my child (not that I have any... I think) lack 'socialization' than lack a good education.

The fact that public schools are inefficient and generally useless aside - the 'socialization' that kids alledgedly gain from most public schools [particularly earlier years] is actually damaging in my opinion... At almost every turn, it reinforces the idea that the entire social aspect of humanity is totally irrational (via peers who hate and insult them for academic achievement, petty authority figures whose sole rationale for anything is 'because I said so', ect).

[Ginzburgh]

/extreme on
Would this mean you wouldn't want the baby killer in prison because he killed for religion and this is someting you must "accept" / tolerate?
/off
I can't find the word and I'm sure you don't mean it the way I'm taking it but to just tolerate things as you go through life makes me think of a "floater" just bobing along the river, with that "ahh, whatever, I don't care" atitude.

Interesting points.

My statement was pretty broad and I didn't go into specifics like baby killings and jihad. I guess that isn't a bridge I'd like to cross until I came to it.

[Martrae]

Exactly, Yamori, being teased for knowing the answer is backwards and only encourages stupidity. This is why so many people don't know where Louisiana is, they were afraid to learn anything the other kids didn't consider 'cool'.

Currently, the schools teach to the dumbest kid in class, also. This means the bright kids that might have excelled are stuck doing busywork or sitting in boredom while the teacher goes over for the 16th time what 1+1 is. The intelligent ones will start acting up and creating games to pass the time, which leads to the teacher freaking out and complaining they have no attention span and must be put on Ritalin.

[Ginzburgh]

I would rather have my child (not that I have any... I think) lack 'socialization' than lack a good education.

The fact that public schools are inefficient and generally useless aside - the 'socialization' that kids alledgedly gain from most public schools [particularly earlier years] is actually damaging in my opinion... At almost every turn, it reinforces the idea that the entire social aspect of humanity is totally irrational (via peers who hate and insult them for academic achievement, petty authority figures whose sole rationale for anything is 'because I said so', ect).

But...keep in mind, that if a child grows up and goes into say, "Corporate America" the majority of his peers will most likely have those social skills that he or she may lack so it would end up hurting him in the long run.

I am in marketing in a corporate company and I can tell you that my inability to play golf hurts me. It sucks but its the truth. Also, I am not really interested in sports but in the morning I find myself skimming over highlights from games the night before so when the president of my company says "how about that game last night" when he passes me in the hall I can throw SOMETHING out.

[Martrae]

Doubtful, most homeschooled kids do quite well in the workplace because they are innovative thinkers.

[Eziekial]

Ginz, your first paragraph smacks of institutionalization and conformity but lacks reason. In order to get ahead in life you need to be just like everyone else? How are you suppose to be recognized?

[KaiineTN]

I can speak from firsthand experience about the social aspects of school. I was unpopular, I was teased, I went through social hell and became an outcast because of it, as well as having my sense of self worth reduced to practically nothing and being incredibly depressed at times... However, even with my horrible experience, I can say that being part of that social environment was essential.

If I could do it all over again, I'd do things much differently to gain the social skills I wish I had. I would join sports teams and clubs to improve leadership and group skills, for one. Those are very hard for me to develop now that I'm 21. But regardless, being part of that world taught me many lessons deep down and I am a better person today because of it.

People are far too over protective of their children. Let them go through the hard times and learn how to deal with things by themselves. There aren't words I can use to stress the importance of that, and the younger they can learn how to deal with things, the better off they'll be. If you protect them from potentially bad situations during childhood, how do you expect them to react to similar situations when they're older? They wont know how to.

I would say it's far more important to focus your efforts on being supportive than protective or authoritative.

[Zanchief]

To be honest I think Marts kids are way better off than most dweebs off the street. The only concern I would have if I was home schooling my kids would be the time away from his parents. Kids need some freedom. Parents will want to spend all day with their kids smothering them, but they need to have their own identity away from home. None of the things you've mentioned Mart, involve them being on their own or being with someone else.

In the big picture, I think their advanced education will probably get them far further ahead than whatever they might be lacking, but I would still be cautious if I were making that decision for my children.

[Ginzburgh]

Ginz, your first paragraph smacks of institutionalization and conformity but lacks reason. In order to get ahead in life you need to be just like everyone else? How are you suppose to be recognized?

I'm just telling you how it is where I work and live. The ability to shoot under par takes precedence over missing work deadlines. I can't shoot under par but I am young and usually have pretty good drinking stories that I can share with the old men so they live vicariously through "the kid". I AM exceptional at what I do and I am a constant innovator, but if I lacked certain social skills I'd just be dubbed "a weirdo that does a good job".

Ultimately, the guy who does a good job and is accepted socially will have a better advantage getting that new promotion under that new (and higher up boss) over someone who does a good job and lacks social skills.

Like the old adage, it's not what you know it's who you know. I'm not saying I agree with it, I am just playing by the rules.

That's just the business I am in, I am sure there are many other walks of life that don't follow the same guidelines.

[Tikker]

I can consider many a different viewpoint. I'm just sick and tired of seeing God pushed out of our lives every day by the minority. Guess what? The majority should have the right-of-way, so to say. Why should a handful of atheist smacktards have their opinions supercede that of the majority? Answer me that.

The last time I checked, there were 238975983759345 religions out there.

What God would you like to see mixed into our school system? Your God?

Or would you like children to be separated by religion and taught in different schools that were focused on teaching their religious affiliation?

I don't think religion should be forced down anybody's throat. HOWEVER, "under God" should remain in the pledge of allegiance, and if kids want to pray they should be allowed to do so. I hope more and more Christian clubs start forming at public schools.

So if the majority of Americans become Muslim you would be happy to change the pledge of allegiance to "In Mohammad we Trust"?

for what it's worth, muslims and christians believe in the same god

muslims just believe that christ was a prophet, not the messiah

[Tikker]

Doubtful, most homeschooled kids do quite well in the workplace because they are innovative thinkers.

being homeschooled and being an innovative thinker doesn't really link up

people are either born with the ability or not

[ClakarEQ]

Currently, the schools teach to the dumbest kid in class, also. This means the bright kids that might have excelled are stuck doing busywork or sitting in boredom while the teacher goes over for the 16th time what 1+1 is. The intelligent ones will start acting up and creating games to pass the time, which leads to the teacher freaking out and complaining they have no attention span and must be put on Ritalin.

That is too broad a statement. My 1st grader's class it is far from this. They break kids up in to levels amongst the class. Of course this has negative side affects as well (e.g. Why can't I sit at the "smart" table). Of course they hide this a bit and call the tables names like Bear, Bee's, Butterfly, etc but in reality it is as I just described.

So my kid is pretty much average at math but excels in reading (go figure becuase I don't like to read LOL). He has been at near the highest level months ahead of his peers, reading "chapter books" as they say. At the same time you've got kids having problems reading "Jane walks up the hill" type stuff, each child going at their own pace.

My problem with this and public schools in general is they don't tap into the resources at all. The resource IS the child. While 1st maybe through 3rd grade it doesn't "fit" but I do belive the "haves" should help mentor the "have-nots" with teacher supervision. The end result in my utopian thought is the haves continue to excel at possibly at a great rate as they themselves are teaching, the have-nots get taught through a peer and this is often times better accepted then through the adult teacher doing it. Of course this isn't utopia and I'll just have to accept it.

Should a kid teach another kid, I'd say yes because there are big benefits to both. You break down many social angst's that get built by lack of socializaiton(sp) amongst "clics". There would be far less in school problems IMHO if they did it my way /eveilgrin

[Martrae]

To be honest I think Marts kids are way better off than most dweebs off the street. The only concern I would have if I was home schooling my kids would be the time away from his parents. Kids need some freedom. Parents will want to spend all day with their kids smothering them, but they need to have their own identity away from home. None of the things you've mentioned Mart, involve them being on their own or being with someone else.

They spend many hours with their friends away from the house. I keep and eye out the window to make sure everyone is ok but I pretty much leave them alone (unless they are doing something dangerous). They also spend many weekends at my parents and spend the night with cousins or friends.

You can't raise independent kids if they are smothered.

[Lyion]

Looks like the thread is officially ruined, have fun guys.

It was ruined when Zan started doing his usual asshole troll routine. Mindia merely echos that, but from the other side and with less common sense. It's a shame the two of them pollute so many threads with their narrow 'self funny' flagellation that is lame and moronic.

I expect major changes in education. Vouchers would be great. Especially for inner city people who could send their kids out of the ghetto into viable schools.

The problem with public schools is they subscribe to the one size fits all mentality. This is ineffective, and schools need to escape politics and boxes and focus on pure education.

[Zanchief]

You can't raise independent kids if they are smothered.

Which was my point~

[Martrae]

Doubtful, most homeschooled kids do quite well in the workplace because they are innovative thinkers.

being homeschooled and being an innovative thinker doesn't really link up

people are either born with the ability or not

No, everyone is born with it. Witness the games children make up. In most people it's trained out of them by school teaching them they have to conform and follow arbitrary rules so the teacher has an easier time.

[ClakarEQ]

Schools need to tap into the free resource they have. Why is it school need to be a lecture / dictation. I don't recall many "round table events" past 1st grade. It shouldn't have stopped.

However the inner cities folks are a bit screwed I don't have a solution for them, the stupid can't teach the stupid i guess

[Zanchief]

Looks like the thread is officially ruined, have fun guys.

It was ruined when Zan started doing his usual asshole troll routine.

Atleast I'm not kidding myself~

[Lyion]

You have a lot of good points. Its a shame you feel the need to Mindia threads, versus actually objectively discussing them.

[Zanchief]

You have a lot of good points. Its a shame you feel the need to Mindia threads, versus actually objectively discussing them.

I objectively discuss them with my lovably harsh wit.

[Narrock]

Tikker wrote:

for what it's worth, muslims and christians believe in the same god

Where do you get your info? I'm sure glad we can turn to you for religious facts, eh Tikker? Here's a good explanation:

"The muslim's god is Allah from whom both good and evil emanate, and to them Jesus was a prophet, although not as great as Muhammad. muslims are expected to believe in the Articles of Faith and observe the Pillars of Faith. Those who follow and obey Allah and the prophet Muhammad will eventually be rewarded by going to Paradise, a place of pleasure.

There are many differences between Islam and Christianity. Their teachings are in conflict. For the Christian, God is holy and cannot do anything sinful or evil. As for Jesus Christ, He was and still is God and faith in Him is the only way to heaven, not externally obeying a list of dos and don'ts. Unlike the muslim's view of life after death, the Christian's idea of heaven is eternity with a holy God, not a place where inhabitants enjoy the sinful pleasures they denied as human beings.

Do Muslims Worship the Same God as Christians?

In order to find the answer, let's begin by asking ourselves a few very important introductory questions.

Is Jesus God? If the answer is yes, then we need to ask, Is the Muslim God Jesus? If Jesus is not the God of the Islam religion, then are Muslims worshipping the same God that we, as Christians, are?

In a sense, everyone who believes that there is a God begins by believing in the one true God. Unfortunately, these initial concepts of God have grown into religious systems and beliefs that have inaccurate and inadequate concepts of who He really is, what He's like and what He expects from us. People in these religious systems, including Islam, either ignore or deny what God has universally revealed about Himself to mankind (i.e., creation/Romans 1:19-20, law in our hearts/Romans 2:12-15, and the prophets/Hebrews 1:1-2).

Here is a classic passage that refers to one God but many "images" (in other words, idols or false gods).
Romans 1:18-25

Do Muslims and those in other religious systems believe that Jesus is God? Do they believe in the one true God as He has revealed Himself in creation, our hearts and the prophets? The answer is no.

One can certainly argue that we all started at the same place, with a belief that there is a God. But when we evaluate whether Islam and other non-Christian religions have an accurate understanding of who He really is and what He is really like, we must conclude that their concepts of God are dramatically different than the God that is described in the Christian Bible. Because of that, it is valid to argue that the "god" of Islam is not the same as the Christian's God. And why? Because Muslims have an inadequate and inaccurate concept of who God really is.

At the very least, we must conclude that Muslims are not worshipping in spirit and truth (John 4:24), because they don't really know God. And why don't they know God? Because they don't recognize Him for who He really is. In essence, they have created a false, man-made "god." Tragically, man-made "gods" cannot save their followers from sin and eternal condemnation."

[Gidan]

I would love to home school my daughter, though I think my own knowlege would be significantly lacking.

Lets say your a gifted person when it comes to literature, writing and such but your just avg in math. How do you teach Calculus to your kid? Do you hold them back because of your lack of knowlege? I would say as far as match and science go, I would do great teaching high school, hell I could probably get away with college math, but I would have problems with elementry math. I would literally have to go back and reteach myself basic algebra because I havn't used it since I was in what 9th grade. Just sit back and image me trying to teach my child how to spell!!!!! My reading comprention sucks, how would I teach them anything on the level of english.

I guess my question is, what do you do when they are beyond your ability to teach them? Do you throw them to the wolves of public school? Find some nice private school? What will it be like for them to goto college. Will college actually be their first time knowing what a classroom looks like? Will they be lost in the shuffle in a class of 30? How about a class of 400? They are growing up in a class of what 1,2 or 3?

In the end, are you really helping them or hurting them? Do the benefits of the better education out weigh the negative side effects?

[Gidan]

In a sense, everyone who believes that there is a God begins by believing in the one true God.

On a side note, that statement is not really true. Think about religions that predate christianity that believe in many gods.

[Tikker]

Is Jesus God? If the answer is yes, then we need to ask, Is the Muslim God Jesus? If Jesus is not the God of the Islam religion, then are Muslims worshipping the same God that we, as Christians, are?

less than 1/6 of the world believes jesus=god

from a christian point of view, you're definitely not going to agree

think about this then

Christ was born a jew, and recognized the jews god as God
so christians believe in the same God as the Jews, yet the jews do not believe christ was God

Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet
Mohammed was also a prophet

Islam's God, Judaism's God, and Christianity's God is one and the same