McCain guarantees victory

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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Tossica » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:15 am

Martrae wrote:Probably.

But again...there's so much else to worry/focus on, this doesn't even make my radar. Yes, it shows that he (like Palin) are horrible with OPM (other people's money) but we knew this already.

Neither one of the candidates has a clue about finances or the economy.



Yeah, because Warren Buffet has no idea what he's doing when it comes to finances... he's Obama's chief financial adviser and will most likely be asked to be Treasury Secretary if Obama is elected. I think the economy will be in good hands if Obama is elected. All the "socialist", "wealth redistribution" bullshit being spread by the right is just that, bullshit and scare tactics used to manipulate the simple minded.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Arlos » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:24 am

You guys aren't SERIOUSLY attacking the man for wanting to spend time with a seriously ill grandmother that helped raise him, are you? Seriously? You're going to go there? Attacking sick grandmothers now? Wow.

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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Eziekial » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:48 am

Exactly. I'm sure those that gave $100 to his campaign are happy to be picking up 2% of the airfare for him to visit grandmama.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Tuggan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:14 am

i'm willing to bet taking the campaign jet to hawaii probably cost a few bucks more than palins clothing.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Gypsiyee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:24 am

Martrae wrote:Sorry, it was the best I could come up with after a week and a half of sickness in my house to your 'the sky is falling' post.

Naturally, whoever is in the losing position is never going to say "Oh well, we've lost" before the votes are even cast. He has to keep up at least the appearance that he expects to win or he loses whatever confidence people still have in him.

As for the Palin clothes thing. It does crack me up. There is so much more to worry about with regards to her and the election in general that the focus put on it is laughable.


I apologize for posting something I found interesting - I suppose I should go ahead and screen any article I post with my "Martrae thinks this is beneath her" radar. I didn't realize it was a sky is falling type post rather than something for people to give feedback on, since, you know, this is a discussion forum.

Perhaps you could follow some of the motherly advice you give so often and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all if that's the 'best you can come up with.' It's a little silly to advise me to screen my previous posts for tone while at the same time telling me you post snarkiness without thinking twice about it or even caring about the topic enough to come up with a comment, don't you think?

as for the Palin clothes, for the 4th time, it wasn't a point of focus. the thread went in another direction after people ignored the initial post and went after a side comment. No one was worried about it, no one said they were worried about it, it was simply a side discussion of speculation blown way out of proportion.

Either way, that it doesn't make your radar is fine, I can understand that - not everyone cares about the whole shabang, but I personally like to evaluate the entire election and prioritize most important, like platform stances, to "things that make you go hmm" that aren't nearly as important. The way you spend your campaign funding isn't a platform issue or a huge deal no, but it does give you a little insight as to how you might prioritize in the future. Managing a campaign is the closest these people get to showing how they might run the country - it's a business in itself, and missteps within a campaign should be up for scrutiny just as in the case of your business, imo.

Paul, for example, has appealing ideas to a lot of people (certainly not all, because he's pretty extreme), but he sucks at marketing himself. That could be good and bad, but I do think it's indicative of how he would run the country. We'd go back under the radar in regards to world affairs, I think. He raised a lot of money, but didn't advertise much; much of his campaign was homegrown and volunteer work - it's telling of how frugal he is and hints at his "work hard, spend less" policies.

Obama spends big, but frequently asks lots of people for small donations and I think that's pretty representative of his policies - to get back on our feet, everyone needs to pitch in a little. He has plans for some big spending for the US, and his campaign management is that he when he plans to spend big, he's able to manage the money to afford it.

McCain's campaign has been a disaster with one mistake after the next, odd spending habits, erratic behavior, and I think that shows a little of how he would run the country and that's a small part of why I couldn't vote for him.

It's little signs here and there of what's to come - no one, aside from someone who has been a president, is prepared to be the president. Any indication of personality or business management insight we can get is a good thing. I don't find anything wrong with paying attention to the small stuff, as long as you know where to put it on your priorities list.

As far as using campaign money to see his Grandma, I hadn't heard that, but it'd be peculiar to me if it were true. Not an issue anymore than the clothes are an issue, but I'd definitely find it odd and a waste of campaign dollars. I don't think seeing family is a waste, but I think using campaign money to see them is poor use of supporter dollars to be sure. I'd be interested to learn if it's actually true, though.

(talk about going off in a tangent. I think that's even tl;dr for me~)

edit - 2 typos. I'm just not very good at stuff
Last edited by Gypsiyee on Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Zanchief » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:43 am

Eziekial wrote:Exactly. I'm sure those that gave $100 to his campaign are happy to be picking up 2% of the airfare for him to visit grandmama.


HAHA you defend Palin and her clothes but are oh so concerned about Obama's campaign contributors now?

Yea...

How about, who gives a shit about either?
Last edited by Zanchief on Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Gypsiyee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:45 am

I think you just caught bait for me, mister!
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby araby » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:39 pm

Gypsiyee wrote:I think you just caught bait for me, mister!


haha! I love it.

On topic, the campaign dime should not be used to buy a wardrobe, visit a grandmother, sick or not, and that's that. I find it ridiculous that either of them would spend campaign money for those things. Those are PERSONAL expenses.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Tossica » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:42 pm

How do people know he spent campaign money on the visit?
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby ClakarEQ » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:48 pm

I don't think they do, they're just guessing, at least for now, until someone in the know speaks out.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Eziekial » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:49 pm

:PEENER: Nice bite there, Zan. You skipped breakfast today?? :crackhead:
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby araby » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:51 pm

He took the 757 campaign jet instead of a commercial flight. I first heard it on the radio, they were saying that there was no news coverage about it, only coverage about Palin's wardrobe spending. Then I looked it up online, and sure enough, major news sources aren't covering it, but if you google it you'll find it.

Again, I asked initially if it was even true, because I don't know. Snopes doesn't have it, at least not the way I searched for it. But it if *is* true that he took the campaign jet, instead of a commercial flight, then it's not really any different that what Palin used campaign money for, and both in my opinion, are personal expenses.

Of course I would not attack his sick grandmother, I'm glad he took time away to visit her. I haven't given any money to either side, either, so I don't care. But ethically, any campaign dollars should not be spent on personal expenses, regardless of who I support.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby leah » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:54 pm

for argument's sake, how much $$ is a flight to hawaii vs. $150k in clothing?

and imo, while visiting a sick gramma is more noble a use of money than buying a fancy shmancy new wardrobe, i think both are out of line.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby ClakarEQ » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:56 pm

Someone like Obama or McCain for that matter, can't take "real" commercial flights IMO. There would be too much risk IMO. Now if this was 12 months ago or something else, then IMO it would be different. As it is now the guys has more SS than any other candidate in history (or that's what the intarweb said, so it must be true :) )

That said, he should have forked over cash from his pocket to re-imburse the campaign dollars spent or some portion there of.

I agree though, that is certainly in the same ballpark as palin re: the clothes.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby ClakarEQ » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:58 pm

leah wrote:for argument's sake, how much $$ is a flight to hawaii vs. $150k in clothing?

and imo, while visiting a sick gramma is more noble a use of money than buying a fancy shmancy new wardrobe, i think both are out of line.


I'd guess roughly 5k per person because you know that jet isn't a "normal" jet, you've got SS, media probably, etc all tagging along, even at 3k round trip you're talking 50 folks.

Not a clue regarding the numbers and costs though, if he had 10 folks vs 50 that would make a big difference.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Arlos » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:01 pm

For me, the bit about Palin's wardrobe was never about the fact that they spent money on her, per ce. I was simply laughing about the massive cognitive dissonance between the two extremes involved here: On the one hand, the RNC was trying to market her as Ms. Lower-Middle Class, your common small-town PTA soccer/hockey mom, etc. and on the other, they went all Paris Hilton and dropped 150k on designer wardrobe and accessories. Sorry, but no "average" person is going to blow 150Gs on clothes and handbags.

That's what was so amusing about the story for me, not the fact that the RNC spent 150k on what are effectively set dressings. Compared to the amount of money going through the campaigns overall, 150k is nothing, and I couldn't really care less how the RNC spends its money, except to laugh at the dichotomy between the image they're trying to project for her, and what's actually going on.

As for Obama's flight, it doesn't bug me. Was it a perfect use of campaign funds, no, of course not. Is it a completely different type of expense than Palin's, yes again of course. Do I think even the tiniest fraction of Obama's donors (the only ones who could legitimately complain about the expenditure) are going to bitch about their donations being used for the trip? Not in the least.

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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby araby » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:04 pm

His secret service guys went with him as well.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Harrison » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:34 pm

It doesn't bug you simply because he's your choice. :dunno:

I don't care for a completely different reason. They're going to waste your money regardless of the reason being valid or not.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Tossica » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:02 pm

It doesn't bug me much because there is no way Obama can travel as a regular passenger, there is no way he can travel without security guards because I'm sure he's targeted for assassination already.

It's just not that big of a deal.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Gypsiyee » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:09 pm

If it was using the campaign jet, I think that's a lot different than taking a credit card and buying novelties.. you've seen in the news people already planning hits on the man's life - presidential candidates absolutely need a higher level of protection. they can't just hop on the cheapest Southwest flight and call it good, and that applies to Obama AND McCain, especially with as publicized as this campaign has been.

The original statement kind of sounded like he was using campaign money to buy his accommodations, food, what have you. If it's just how he got there, I think that's comparing apples to giraffes.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby ClakarEQ » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:29 pm

I dunno Gyps, was Palin suppose to look like a Wal-mart shopper? It is apples to apples to me, and I don't really care about either of those two issues and as you know am an avid Obama supporter :). I hope his TV time has some good content and not 'all' the same shit we've heard before.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Haylo » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:48 pm

My problem with the clothes thing wasn't the fact that the money was spent but that Palin and the McCain campaign always act like she's some down home folksy type person who is just like the average American mother. It's quite possible to look good for less than what they spent on her so that's where my issues came in. It's hypocritical. Now afterwards she swore that she didn't know that the clothes were so expensive etc., but Piper (the 7 year old) is the proud new owner of a spiffy Louis Vuitton bag that retails for around $1k, are we too believe that good ole Sarah had no idea what that LV stood for? Really now.

Also, regarding the flight thing. I thought that the Dems were stupid for going after Palin for flying her kids on the plane and putting them up in a hotel with a "gasp" separate bedroom while she was governor and it's stupid to say Obama shouldn't have used the campaign jet. Palin is a mother, if she's traveling and wants to take her kids, she should be able to. Obama is a presidential candidate, there is no way in the world he can travel, even for personal reasons on a non secure flight. It's all apples and oranges.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Diekan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:26 pm

They ALL waste our money. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, whatever. Every damn one of them have used our tax dollars for *personal* purchases. I hate to say it, but anyone who honestly believes they don't is simply naive.

It's really senseless to make an issue out of this. We're in a two-front war, the economy is in dire straights, jobs are disappearing and the media is making noise about Palin's clothes. It's rather sad actually.
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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby brinstar » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:53 pm

ClakarEQ wrote:I dunno Gyps, was Palin suppose to look like a Wal-mart shopper? It is apples to apples to me, and I don't really care about either of those two issues and as you know am an avid Obama supporter :). I hope his TV time has some good content and not 'all' the same shit we've heard before.


she might not be a walmart shopper, fair enough

but her whole angle is to appeal to Joe Six-pack and Jane Hockey Mom, and you betcha THEY shop at walmart

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Re: McCain guarantees victory

Postby Tuggan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:19 pm

nobody wants to fuck a walmart mom with 7 kids hanging out of a shopping cart.

they tried to sell sex, 150k isn't really all that much money to try to steal a presidency.
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