A model for Social Security reform

[Rust]

The answer to fixing Social Security is not to leave the current system in place and only raise the age or the taxable caps... that's foolishness that only perpetuates the problems.

Well, no. If raising the age and increasing the amount of income that was taxed, by themselves, enabled the government to keep paying full benefits forever, that would *solve* the insolvency problem, wouldn't it?

Again, the personal accounts issue is 'chrome' that is aimed to encourage more saving, not anything that would reduce the insolvency issue itself. People need to be very clear on that to avoid confusion. The White House site is actually pretty clear - personal accounts are not given as a means of cost reduction, but as a means to encourage more saving.

--R.

[Rust]

BTW...Social Security isn't secure. They can take it all away in a heartbeat and there's nothing we can do about it.

Social Security (and welfare) basically boils down to giving handouts to the unproductive. If we would quit doing that the US would be in much better shape. Unfortunately, it's handouts like this that fuel the voters, people vote for who will give them the most.

Somehow I don't see driving millions of old people into poverty, hunger and a likely resulting early death as improving the overall 'shape' of the US. It troubles me that you seem to think otherwise.

--R.

[dammuzis]

all social programs are inherently flawed it benefits the unproductive/lazy by burdening the prductive/ambitious. why invest in your future when the government will take care of you? why exercise and eat right when the nationalized health care will take care of you.. why take any responisiblity for yourself when some state entitiy will figure it out for you? it all sounds nice till the working class gets the bill

its time for another revolution

[Langston]

Somehow I don't see driving millions of old people into poverty, hunger and a likely resulting early death as improving the overall 'shape' of the US. It troubles me that you seem to think otherwise.

--R.

Rust - do you know what the average Social Security monthly entitlement is? Compare that to what the Galveston county average is. Now, tell me why this is a bad idea again?

Why in God's name would you be AGAINST building a plan which provides MORE to the citizens? Just because the government doesn't control every penny of the plan and it's managed by the individual with full ownership by the individual... does that scare you or something? Big government is *your* friend, maybe?

[Harrison]

I'd like to remind everyone we are arguing with a canadian about our policies and social programs.

[Lyion]

He's fairly intelligent. Because of this, he realizes he'll most likely end up a U.S. citizen some day. Don't blame him for worrying about his future.

[Harrison]

Until so, I hate listening to foreigners say what we should and shouldn't do with our country. Regardless of intelligent points or not.

[Lyion]

But he's Canadian. He's as much American as people from Boston are, really....

[Rust]

Somehow I don't see driving millions of old people into poverty, hunger and a likely resulting early death as improving the overall 'shape' of the US. It troubles me that you seem to think otherwise.

--R.

Rust - do you know what the average Social Security monthly entitlement is? Compare that to what the Galveston county average is. Now, tell me why this is a bad idea again?

Why in God's name would you be AGAINST building a plan which provides MORE to the citizens? Just because the government doesn't control every penny of the plan and it's managed by the individual with full ownership by the individual... does that scare you or something? Big government is *your* friend, maybe?

Maybe you should go back and re-read what I responded to - Martrae describing SS as 'handouts to the unproductive' that should be stopped. The obvious effect of doing that would be to drive several million people directly into poverty. I don't think that's a really good thing, in fact, to use your emphasis, I am AGAINST the idea of a few million 'unproductive' old people being reduced to, say, eating dog food.

As well, I don't recall saying personal accounts should be forbidden. Just people should stop telling the untruth that personal accounts are a means to solve the SS solvency issue. It's simply not the case; not even the White House claims it. I don't see why we're still arguing about it. Let's just agree and move on.

And yes, there are quite a few services government can provide more efficiently than private companies.

--R.

[Rust]

Until so, I hate listening to foreigners say what we should and shouldn't do with our country. Regardless of intelligent points or not.

As it happens, from working in the US, I have a US Social Security number, and have paid into the trust fund. When I retire, I look forward to my SSA cheque.

As a stakeholder, I have as much a right to an opinion as you do. So there.

And since Canadians are the US's best friends in the world, we are also uniquely empowered to tell you when you're being idiots. You don't listen to us, but it's ok. That's what friends are for.

--R.

[Zanchief]

Until so, I hate listening to foreigners say what we should and shouldn't do with our country. Regardless of intelligent points or not.

That's open-minded of you, Fin.

[Rust]

Until so, I hate listening to foreigners say what we should and shouldn't do with our country. Regardless of intelligent points or not.

That's open-minded of you, Fin.

He heard pigheaded nativism attracted chicks.

He's desperate. It's ok.

--R.

[Martrae]

I don't remember advocating dropping it tomorrow without first putting a better plan in place.

Help for the needy should be taken care of on the local level. Welfare money could be better put to use for education so the need would be lesser. Properly educated people wouldn't need welfare.

Social Security should be entirely privatized, eventually, thru a phasing out period.

Unfortunately, this would leave politicians without a power base to scare into voting their way and they might actually have to get elected on merit.

[Langston]

The government needs to get out of the business of MANAGING our lives. Period.

[Martrae]

The government needs to get out of the business of MANAGING our lives. Period.

Quoted cuz it bears repeating....