Not all car makers are struggling like GM and Ford.

[Phlegm]

From Associated Press:

NAGOYA, Japan - Toyota said Tuesday it plans to produce 9.06 million vehicles in 2006, threatening to overtake struggling U.S. rival General Motors as the world's biggest automaker.

Although General Motors does not give full-year production targets, Toyota's forecast will put it neck-and-neck with GM and possibly allow Toyota to take the lead. GM produced 6.7 million vehicles during the first three quarters of this year and expects to produce about 9 million vehicles this year.

Toyota Motor Corp., Japan's top automaker, has been growing at a time when General Motors Corp. has been stumbling, losing $1.6 billion in the third quarter and seeing its market share in North America chipped away by Asian automakers, including Toyota.

Toyota's production target, announced by President Katsuaki Watanabe at a news conference in Nagoya, central Japan, marks a 10 percent increase from the 8.25 million vehicles Toyota expects to produce this year.

Like Toyota, other Japanese automakers, including Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co., are also in good health.

Honda said Tuesday in Tokyo that it projects global sales in 2005 will have risen 5 percent from a year earlier to a record 3.35 million vehicles, while vehicle production worldwide will have gone up 7.2 percent from last year to 3.41 million cars.

Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse First Boston in Tokyo, believes that Toyota is strong because it has ample money to invest in facilities and research that in turn allows it to produce cars that appeal to the market and cut costs, thereby producing more profits.

With Toyota booming on a "positive cycle" of healthy sales leading to more sales, it's definitely on track to overtake GM in annual vehicle production, he said.

"It's bound to happen either next year or the year after," Endo said. "But perhaps there isn't much point to the question. It doesn't make much sense to be comparing vehicle production numbers between the world's most profitable automaker and one that's on the verge of collapse."

Toyota said it expects to sell 8.85 million vehicles worldwide next year, up 9 percent from 8.09 million estimated for this year.

When not including its subsidiary automakers Hino and Daihatsu, Toyota plans to produce 8.11 million vehicles next year, up 10 percent from 7.37 million vehicles in 2005.

Watanabe played down Toyota's possible imminent No. 1 status in the world auto industry.

"We try to prepare our production and sales to respond to customer needs in every region," he told reporters. "I am not thinking much about whether we will become No. 1 in the world as a result of that."

Watanabe also brushed off fears about a possible U.S. political backlash of protective sentiment that intensified in the 1980s, noting that Toyota has boosted production and parts purchasing in the United States, and become a good corporate citizen.

"I do not anticipate trade friction to grow into a major problem at this time," he said.

Peter Morici, University of Maryland economist and auto industry expert, believes that GM, Ford Motor Co. and the United Auto Workers, the U.S. labor union, do not enjoy much public sympathy, compared to the 1980s.

"I do not believe the U.S. public will support protection for GM. If the government does it, it will have to be veiled," he said.

Detroit-based General Motors has announced drastic cost cuts, including trimming 30,000 jobs, or 27 percent of its North American manufacturing jobs, and the closure of 12 facilities by 2008.

GM's U.S. market share fell to 26.2 percent in the first 10 months of this year compared with 33 percent a decade ago, the result of increasing competition from Asian rivals. Standard & Poor's Ratings Services lowered GM's debt to "junk" status earlier this year.

GM isn't the only U.S. automaker cutting costs.

Ford Motor Co., which reported a third-quarter loss of $284 million, has said it plans to eliminate about 4,000 white-collar jobs in North America early next year as part of a restructuring plan.

Ford Chairman and CEO Bill Ford has said he plans to announce U.S. plant closings and layoffs in January.

Watanabe said Toyota has succeeded because it followed its dream of being the first in the world to produce the best cars at the lowest costs. And Toyota isn't about to sit on its laurels, he said.

"It's critical we maintain our spirit of perpetual challenge," Watanabe said.

[Lyion]

People make less of this than they should. It's another chink in the armor of the American worker, and a push towards losing more of our industrial and manufacturing base. How high can our trade deficit go?

[Captain Insano]

america is done for. shitty american employees with their shitty educations and their shitty benefits packages and shitty liberal office politics including sueing the shit out of everyone when someone tells a blonde joke and the shitty ultra greedy corporations have ensured our death as an economic super power.

Thats ok though. I'm just going to buy up a bunch of property from all the dumbshits who bought houses with ARMS and interest only loans in foreclosure and then rule over my properties like the landlord from hell.

[Tikker]

america is done for. shitty american employees with their shitty educations and their shitty benefits packages and shitty liberal office politics including sueing the shit out of everyone when someone tells a blonde joke and the shitty ultra greedy corporations have ensured our death as an economic super power.

I actually agree with most of that

[Captain Insano]

It's not well put, but frankly accurate.

The average employee is poorly educated, whiny, too damn demanding and doesn't really produce.

I can't say I blame them...You don't get rewarded anymore for performance by these greedy companies.

Still the fact remains, the middle class is in for one big giant black mangaysexassgangbang in the next 15 years.

[KaiineTN]

Well, things will change... That much is certain. With the right perspective, it will be a time of opportunity. I think most will get fucked over big time and wont be able to adapt to any change, though.

I totally agree about ARMS and interest only loans. My best friend's parents have been very successful using them with rental properties and basically depending on appreciation. I'm very worried about their future, because they're so blinded by their optimism that they're unable to fathom what will happen when the money stops coming in.

[Lyion]

One in seven jobs in the U.S. is related to the auto industry. Sure, it's great to spew silliness and to be non chalant... But it's not good for us to see it go down the drain, regardless of ones political or personal views.

The problem is definitely on both sides, but we shouldn't be looking at the problem, but the solution. And no, Toyota's are not that superior to GM products, anymore than Euro cars are. That's just the propaganda machine at work.

[Ganzo]

Lyion, you realy belive if everyone stoped buying foreign cars and bought domestic only it would change anything? They would still outsourse everything to make profit. Maybe if car prices would not double over last 10 years while waiges stayed same, US car companies had something to offer as insentive to buy them instead of wine and cheese.

[Phlegm]

Just wait until the Chinese companies start to sell their car enmass overhere.

[Tuggan]

Just wait until the Chinese companies start to sell their car enmass overhere.

exactly, and people will buy them like nobodies business and will put Toyota and Honda into the same boat with the American Big 3.

then what will the jap lovers have to say? first plants to go will be the ones here in America and Canada.

[Captain Insano]

You are all way fucking wrong.


There is a slow but steady shift in the American buyer... Many people are starting to go back to buying quality products with great service. For the last 15 years or so it has all been about cheap prices. IMO that is shifting.

Hell, crApple and their godamn Ipod are proof to that. I don't like the damn things, but they are the best thing on the market in their genre and have a pricetag to boot. Apple manages to continue to sell them off the hook.

I don't care who is making the cars...Japs, Chinks, Eurotrash or Americans...The person making the best shit is going to get all the business.

Lets be honest, American cars suck. Sorry many here can't wake up to that, but it's the truth. I used to be a huge gearhead once upon the time, able to rebuild a Chevy 350 with my eyes closed. I loved American muscle. The simple fact is the American cars companies have lost their damn minds with these awful, unreliable crapmobiles they are trying to pawn off on the public.

When they start making some vehicles worth a shit they might, MIGHT get some of their biz back.

If we need further proof I'll post some pics of my "crappy" japanese made Infiniti's interior and those of similarly priced American autos. These American car companies keep trying to revive old fucking vehicles when they should be spending their time and R&D on bring out new, innovative designs.

[Lyion]

Your Infiniti is less reliable than a Cadillac, has less horsepower, by most buyers standards less luxurious, and costs more.

The simple truth is there is not much difference in reliability. The difference is in the marketing and the fact idiots keep repeating that American cars are unreliable, when in fact they are just as good. That mantra was true in the 80s, when anyone buying American was a fool, but today it's just bullshit.

Where most of the Japanese cars really win is in resale value, and that hurts as people want things to keep higher valuation. However if the market is inundated with these cars, as Toyota appears to want to do, then that gap will close even more. Anyways, you lose mass valuation on any vehicle. Japanese included.

The funny thing is your Infiniti is one of the lower rated cars out there in reliability and any American luxury car puts it to shame.

[Kramer]

Side 1 vs. Side 2



Side 1 = America Industry Fanboy for Economy without International Competition where it is America 4 the win all the time


Side 2 = Global Economy with Natural Competition that True Capitalists Claim they Support

[Captain Insano]

Your Infiniti is less reliable than a Cadillac, has less horsepower, by most buyers standards less luxurious, and costs more.

The simple truth is there is not much difference in reliability. The difference is in the marketing and the fact idiots keep repeating that American cars are unreliable, when in fact they are just as good. That mantra was true in the 80s, when anyone buying American was a fool, but today it's just bullshit.

Where most of the Japanese cars really win is in resale value, and that hurts as people want things to keep higher valuation. However if the market is inundated with these cars, as Toyota appears to want to do, then that gap will close even more. Anyways, you lose mass valuation on any vehicle. Japanese included.

The funny thing is your Infiniti is one of the lower rated cars out there in reliability and any American luxury car puts it to shame.

reliability wasn't necessarily my biggest concern when buying the car... I think when I have a little more time I'm going to line up all the cars in the mid 30's price range and we can compare em.

[Eziekial]

The G35 is a beautiful car. The CTS is not.

[Tuggan]

bubble on wheels in my opinion. i'd much drive rather the cts.

[Vincenti]

Where most of the Japanese cars really win is in resale value, and that hurts as people want things to keep higher valuation.

And why do you suppose Jap cars have higher resale value, hmmm?

I dont have any bullshit statistics (we all know stats can make any point you jsut ahve to spin the numbers in your favor) but I can tell you from PERSONAL experience, First hand, no bullshit experience that of the cars I have PERSONALLY owned, the american cars are crap and the japanese cars have been reliable.

1st Vehicle - Ford=died after less than 80K miles
2nd vehicle - Honda= got 250K out of it, sold it and saw it on the road three years later.
3rd Vehicle - Nissan=Got 175K out of it, leased it to a trucking company got another 60K out of it before the chick I had driving it for me flipped it 8 times
4th Vehicle - Datsun=bought it at 20 years old with >200K on it, drove it for another 100K and sold it still in good working order
5th Vehicle - Honda=200K and sold it. Again saw it on the road several years later.
6th Vehicle - Lincoln=died under 100K
7th vehicle - Oldsmobile=left me on the highway MULTIPLE times, finally sold it to some sucker who didnt even make it to the end of the block before the tranny fell out
8th Vehicle - Oldsmobile=Engine blew around 75K sold as scrap for $50
9th Vehicle - Ford=Still running at 120K, but has had the engine rebuilt TWICE already (maybe more as that my ex-wife has it now and I dont know what she has had to do to it)
10th Vehicle - Honda=200K+ wrecked it was considered totaled but drove it away from the accident and it still runs altho the entire front end is smashed and it has no windows or windshield because I hit a horse with it.
11th vehicle - Saturn (Chevy) Bought it with 65K on it now has less than 100K has left me broken down on the highway twice already.

So despite what your "statistics" say, every single American built car I have purchased has been unreliable/expensive and every single Jap car I have ever owned had very few problems, gave many more miles of service, was cheaper and burned less gas. Unfortunately every time I get a new car I have not financed it which means that I had to take what I could afford to pay cash for at the time. However now that I am more financially secure I can afford to be a little picky and so the next car I will own will be Japanese. I will buy American when American car manufacturerers get their collective heads out of their asses.

that is all.

[Captain Insano]

I agree with Vincenti. These "studies" say that American cars are just as reliable, but I'm not buying it. Those magazines are all owned by American companies and I call bullshit on a lot of what they publish.

My two American cars, both Fords were complete shitboxes and always breaking down.

I drove two mazdas and a honda CRX both past 150k miles. Neither had any major problems at all.

[Minrott]

On the same note, my Grand Am has 147,000 miles on it and no problems. Still gets 30mpg no less. My old Bronco II, had 170,000 when I sold it. My old Ranger had 153,000 when I sold it. I drive a lot of miles in my commute to work, and I generally buy a $2,000 domestic with 125,000 miles on it, drive it for a year with no problems to 150-160,000 miles, then dump it.

But if I were going to pay for a new car, it wouldn't be a domestic. It'd probably be a Toyota Corolla. Damned if I'll buy a foriegn truck though. There's nothing in the foriegn market that can do what my Super Duty can.

I don't think reliability is the issue. I think refinement is. The interiors of American vehicles are poorly designed and fall apart. Japanese auto makers have much nicer and well put together interiors.

[Jesus]

Japanese cars are built with statistics.
Not innovation.

What Minrott said about foreign trucks too.

[Diekan]

Where most of the Japanese cars really win is in resale value, and that hurts as people want things to keep higher valuation.

And why do you suppose Jap cars have higher resale value, hmmm?

I dont have any bullshit statistics (we all know stats can make any point you jsut ahve to spin the numbers in your favor) but I can tell you from PERSONAL experience, First hand, no bullshit experience that of the cars I have PERSONALLY owned, the american cars are crap and the japanese cars have been reliable.

1st Vehicle - Ford=died after less than 80K miles
2nd vehicle - Honda= got 250K out of it, sold it and saw it on the road three years later.
3rd Vehicle - Nissan=Got 175K out of it, leased it to a trucking company got another 60K out of it before the chick I had driving it for me flipped it 8 times
4th Vehicle - Datsun=bought it at 20 years old with >200K on it, drove it for another 100K and sold it still in good working order
5th Vehicle - Honda=200K and sold it. Again saw it on the road several years later.
6th Vehicle - Lincoln=died under 100K
7th vehicle - Oldsmobile=left me on the highway MULTIPLE times, finally sold it to some sucker who didnt even make it to the end of the block before the tranny fell out
8th Vehicle - Oldsmobile=Engine blew around 75K sold as scrap for $50
9th Vehicle - Ford=Still running at 120K, but has had the engine rebuilt TWICE already (maybe more as that my ex-wife has it now and I dont know what she has had to do to it)
10th Vehicle - Honda=200K+ wrecked it was considered totaled but drove it away from the accident and it still runs altho the entire front end is smashed and it has no windows or windshield because I hit a horse with it.
11th vehicle - Saturn (Chevy) Bought it with 65K on it now has less than 100K has left me broken down on the highway twice already.

So despite what your "statistics" say, every single American built car I have purchased has been unreliable/expensive and every single Jap car I have ever owned had very few problems, gave many more miles of service, was cheaper and burned less gas. Unfortunately every time I get a new car I have not financed it which means that I had to take what I could afford to pay cash for at the time. However now that I am more financially secure I can afford to be a little picky and so the next car I will own will be Japanese. I will buy American when American car manufacturerers get their collective heads out of their asses.

that is all.

Yep - EVERY American car I have owned has been a complete piece of shit. I've owned a few Fords, a couple of Dodges and a GM product or two. Not a single one of them was worth a damn. Regardless of changing the oil every 2 to 3 thousand miles and taking it in for routine "check ups" and "tune ups" - the inevitable struck at around 100k miles.

I don't feel one bit sorry for the Three Pigs and the situation they've put themselves in. They've spend dacades intentionally producing subpar pieces of shit for no other reason than to get repeat customers every few years. Now, they're in deep shit and they have no one to blame but themselves.

I should also mention that I too have owned a few Japanese vehicles and have driven them far beyond 150 grand without so much as having to change the battery.

Despite my taste for the late '60s era Mopar - I wouldn't drive an American piece of junk if you gave it to me. Right now I've got a Rodeo and I have no doubts that it'll last me for as long as I keep the oil changed.

The auto industry has made their own bed through the mass producing of shit and now that people won't buy their pieces of shit they blame the unions and the workers. God forbid they start rolling out the high quality of vehicle they ARE capable of producing.

The impact of the situation the American auto industry is in IS going to affect the entire country. I hate to see people lose their jobs and I'm not looking forward to the economic disaster a chap 11 filing by one of these companies will have on our markets. Not to mention the tax revenue generated by these companies will have to be "made up for" some how and by someone... wonder who that'll be?

Fuck Ford, GM and Chrystler. You're getting what you deserve... suck it up and die. You're days of producing over priced pieces of shit are quickly coming to an end.

[Lyion]

My two American cars, both Fords were complete shitboxes and always breaking down.

I drove two mazdas and a honda CRX both past 150k miles. Neither had any major problems at all.

Mazda's are built mostly by Ford, you know. Ford owns a good chunk of them, shares their technology, and all three of your Ford/Mazda cars came out of the same plants.

This is the problem with disinformation and propaganda bullshit.

[Phlegm]

My two American cars, both Fords were complete shitboxes and always breaking down.

I drove two mazdas and a honda CRX both past 150k miles. Neither had any major problems at all.

Mazda's are built mostly by Ford, you know. Ford owns a good chunk of them, shares their technology, and all three of your Ford/Mazda cars came out of the same plants.

This is the problem with disinformation and propaganda bullshit.

This is partly incorrect. Ford owns 33% of Mazda. A majority of Mazda's cars are manufacture in Japan, in Mazda's auto plants not Ford. In fact, a few of Ford's models are manufactured in Japan by Mazda.

[Lyion]

Yes, but that is for Asia and Japan, not the U.S.

Anyways, the least reliable car is made by Infinity, part of Nissan.

[xaoshaen]

Yes, but that is for Asia and Japan, not the U.S.

Anyways, the least reliable car is made by Infinity, part of Nissan.

I actually drive a Ford, made by Mazda, purchased in Ohio.