Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

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Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:41 pm

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00050I.pdf

The whole thing is well worth reading, but here's the juicy part:

RESOLVED, That the 81st Legislature of the State of Texas
hereby claim sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise
enumerated and granted to the federal government by the
Constitution of the United States; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That this serve as notice and demand to the federal
government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective
immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these
constitutionally delegated powers


By:AACreighton H.C.R.ANo.A50
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

WHEREAS, The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the
United States reads as follows: "The powers not delegated to the
United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"; and

WHEREAS, The Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of
federal power as being that specifically granted by the
Constitution of the United States and no more; and

WHEREAS, The scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment
means that the federal government was created by the states
specifically to be an agent of the states; and

WHEREAS, Today, in 2009, the states are demonstrably treated
as agents of the federal government; and

WHEREAS, Many federal laws are directly in violation of the
Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and

WHEREAS, The Tenth Amendment assures that we, the people of
the United States of America and each sovereign state in the Union
of States, now have, and have always had, rights the federal
government may not usurp; and

WHEREAS, Section 4, Article IV, of the Constitution says,
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a
Republican Form of Government," and the Ninth Amendment states that
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not
be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"; and

WHEREAS, The United States Supreme Court has ruled in New
York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that congress may not
simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the
states; and

WHEREAS, A number of proposals from previous administrations
and some now pending from the present administration and from
congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States;
now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the 81st Legislature of the State of Texas
hereby claim sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise
enumerated and granted to the federal government by the
Constitution of the United States; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That this serve as notice and demand to the federal
government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective
immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these
constitutionally delegated powers; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That all compulsory federal legislation that
directs states to comply under threat of civil or criminal
penalties or sanctions or that requires states to pass legislation
or lose federal funding be prohibited or repealed; and, be it
further

RESOLVED, That the Texas secretary of state forward official
copies of this resolution to the president of the United States, to
the speaker of the house of representatives and the president of the
senate of the United States Congress, and to all the members of the
Texas delegation to the congress with the request that this
resolution be officially entered in the Congressional Record as a
memorial to the Congress of the United States of America
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Arlos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:14 pm

Yeah, that'll get exactly nowhere. Just like those raving morons claiming the 16th amendment was never ratified.

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:31 pm

Don't be so sure. Similar legislation has popped up in over 20 states. This is a very good thing.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Arlos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:33 pm

Sez you. The same person who finds Jury Duty to be Orwellian style thought-control oppression. I will make my own judgement, thank you.

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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:42 pm

So are you against the part of the constitution that says powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively? Do you think the federal government should have the final say, and that all the States must conform? Do you think it's a bad thing that States might finally be starting to stand up for themselves?
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Arlos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:50 pm

I think that the Civil War quite thoroughly settled the matter as to whether we were a loose confederation of small effectively semi-autonomous nation-states or whether we are a single large nation, with several administrative districts. Your way of thinking lost. It isn't coming back, no matter how much you whine about it. Ever. Get over it.

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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:24 pm

I believe the country would end up much better off if things were more State based. Want Government provided healthcare? Move to a State that provides it and deal with the higher taxes. See if they can beat insurance companies. Against abortion? Move to a State that outlaws it. In favor of recreational usage of marijuana? Move to a State that allows it. The federal government should not interfere in such things.

How can you argue that letting States, and ultimately the people residing in them, make the choices about how they live together in a society, isn't best for them? Local government and decentralized power is vital.

We aren't a one size fits all country, and we never will be. We have to embrace our differences, not try to drown them out by States conforming to a central government.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Phlegm » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:10 pm

By your argument, why stop at state? Let each county... city...or district control their own fate.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:16 pm

Why? Well, because the constitution says that powers not explicity given to the federal government are reserved to the States and to the people. Some things can get more and more local, though.

Schools, for example, should be ran by the communities they serve, certainly not be the State or federal government. Are you concerned about the quality of education in your area? Then get active on the school board and have influence without needing to worry about federal standards and bureaucracy. They hinder progress.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Gypsiyee » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:17 am

you just want to geographically stay in the states and move to an entirely different government based on where you live in the states. You want me to give up my entire life/family/friends to move to a different state just because I like their local laws better? Are you mental? What about military families who move to different states *all the friggin time* or any other job who has to transfer constantly? Yes, let's just completely change their lives because they set foot on different soil in the same nation. This is the UNITED states of america - what you want is for each state to be its own entity - what you want will result in all sorts of civil war and discontent in the nation. What you want is completely disorganized and nonsensical in modernized society. your idealism has blinded you to reality.

I don't understand why you even live here.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby araby » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:24 am

I see what Kaiine is saying and I agree somewhat. The perfect example is the debate happening here now. Arlos lives in a different area, where their views and placement of importance on issues will differ from another area, say, across the entire United States, which is pretty far, geographically speaking.

Each state should have differences in governing, with emphasis on being within the state. States are great places too, and should certainly hold their end of responsiblities to the government. Big Daddy can't hold everybody's hand, and Momma's got babies all over the country. Fifty of them. None of them are alike, except maybe the twin babies, Dakotas, Carolinas, Virginias...

I need more coffee or something.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:57 am

Gyps, I don't think that State's would differ THAT much, but having some options would be a very good thing. People have lost too much power, too much influence, and that must be restored. There are more threats to our liberties and way of live in Washington DC than anywhere else in the world, and why? Because power is too centralized.

Yes, we are United, but that doesn't mean that we all must be the same. United by our differences, by our common desire for liberty and the opportunities it creates. We should not be united by a federal government that dictates how everyone in the country can or can't live their lives.

A perfect example would be how California allowed the use of medical marijuana, and then the DEA came in and arrested people that were using it legally. The federal government has no constitutionally given jurisdiction in such matters, and they are clearly overstepping their bounds. All I want is for the federal government to fulfill it's proper role and no more, and the states/people to be assertive with their responsibilities.

This would not create a disorganized country or society. We would be stronger, and we would be able to, in a sense, test different things to see what works best. If a state has a program that does a whole lot of good without much cost, other states will follow. If a state has a program that they think will do a whole lot of good, but there ends up being unforeseen side effects that make the cost too high, other states know to stay away from it. As it stands now, the federal government makes the entire country adopt a program, and we have nothing to compare it to. Consider these bailouts... We're going to end up having another one, and I'm sure they're going to say the last one just wasn't enough, but things would be so much worse if we hadn't done anything! But... how do we know that? We don't.

Maybe my stances seems a bit extreme, but at the very least, something major in Washington has to change, or the future of this country wont be a good one. Fostering fear in people to get things passed is incredibly immoral. Stuffing more and more crap into a bill that you know will be passed because of fear is incredibly immoral. Not giving representatives nearly enough time to read what they're voting on is incredibly immoral. Allowing LOBBYISTS to read bills before representatives is just plain corrupt. Politicians see a crisis as an opportunity to get things passed, and I think such behavior should get them removed from office if not put in prison. Can you guys at least agree that this is a huge problem?
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:32 am

The major problem I see with this is corruption is down to the district level. I don't see how things could get "better" by allowing more flexible, less visible, local corruption thrive.

Lobbyists don't operate on just a federal level, they operate on every level of government, including public schools.

Another issue is funding, each state would then be responsible for all its own funding, why with the feds offer up billions to the states. I could see several states going bankrupt.

It would also, most likely, create a lot of problems for big companies where they exchange product across multiple states. There are already some things like this that create problems for some products moving from state to state, like alcohol.

That said I do see your points Kaiine and really don't have a "solution" just that for me personally I wouldn't be ok with what is being attempted with that legislation.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:22 am

So, you're worried about the States going bankrupt, and I'm more concerned with the country going bankrupt. If States like California have a huge deficit, it's because they're spending far too much, and their taxes are too low. You either have to spend less, or tax more, or both. You can't go to the fed and ask them to bail you out. That's stealing the wealth of every American.

As for exchange, I don't see it being problematic. So one State might have a different drinking age. An 18 year old kid could cross the border, buy a bunch of alcohol, and come back home where the drinking age is 21. He bought the alcohol legally, but is consuming it in a place where it is illegal. No problem there.

As for corruption at a more local level, well, more local power would mean it would be easier for your community to fight said corruption. Besides, I'd much rather take a local bad guy over a bad guy in DC that has nationwide influence.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Eziekial » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:04 pm

Corruption on a local level rather than a National one? Everyone here paying for the "Big Dig" in Boston is better that a Huey P. Long or a Blagoyavich? At least if my mayor is currupt I can drive 10 minutes over to city hall and kick his ass. What recourse do we have against Ted Kennedy?
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:56 pm

The deal is you won't drive over, just like no one "drives over" today. We've become complacent with our political corruption, from the individuals like you and me, to the reporters and news agencies.

You don't know about corruption until it is public knowledge, what are folks doing about the corruption at your local high school, how about at your city council?

When was the last time any one of us took the time to go to and sit through a city council meeting and if you did, what did you say?

What is legislation like this suppose to fix? Create 50 islands with their own trade agreements, their own laws, their own whatthefuckevers.

I'm not saying there aren't some good points like the creation of competition or as kaiine said, testing things in one state could prove out to be a good thing for all states to adopt, but that happens today. Counties and districts in all our states do pilot projects from education to industry.

I guess I'm failing to see the plus here because the suggestions and comments from the proponents, well that all takes place today. I do see at least one thing that being fed. law shouldn't trump local law, that I do agree with.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:34 pm

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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby araby » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:12 pm

That's a good video. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby Arlos » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:12 pm

Sovereign states as part of a loose confederacy is a complete anachronism. A government based on the supremacy of state's rights was tried: The Confederacy. It failed utterly, and revealed the inherent idiocy of such a system. Hell, just look at some events of the Civil War. For example, near the end of the war, the armies of the confederacy were dressed largely in rags, while the state of Georgia had over 90,000 uniforms in warehouses and refused to let them be used by anyone but troops from Georgia, and Georgia nearly seceeded from the Confederacy. Such a system destroys itself by rampant factionism in any crisis, because there is no national unity.

If we had kept to the pre-Civil War concept of a loose confederacy of states, we would never have become the superpower we became and are today. Period. Going back to such a system would be one of the largest disasters this country would have ever experienced. Many states would be plunged into immediate and abject poverty. Just take a look at how many states out there take in more money from the fed than they pay in taxes. While rich states like Pennsylvania and California would find themselves with more money on hand, poor states would be decimated.

What if some southern state decides to reinstate Jim Crow laws? That would be their right as a sovereign entity, would it not?

We are now, and have been since 1865, ONE NATION with 50 administrative districts. We have not been a confederacy of independents in over 140 years. We should not go back. We WILL not go back. We MUST not go back.

Your entire plan would destroy us as a nation. It saddens me that in your narrow self-interest you can't see that, and that you don't have the ability to see beyond your cult indoctrination and see that. Keep enjoying the kool-aid then. You're not going to ever get what you want, and the sane among us are eternally grateful for that fact.

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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby brinstar » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:31 pm

aren't there more than 50 "administrative districts"

i.e. DC, guam, puerto rico, etc
compost the rich
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Re: Check out this beautiful piece of legislation

Postby KaiineTN » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:57 pm

Well then, Arlos, why can't we, why haven't we, changed the constitution to allow for our current form of government? Why do we ignore it?
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