House Panel Seeks to Keep Schiavo Alive

Real Life Events.

Go off topic and I will break you!

Moderator: Dictators in Training

House Panel Seeks to Keep Schiavo Alive

Postby Martrae » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:41 am

By JESSE J. HOLLAND

WASHINGTON (AP) - Working against the clock, House lawmakers tried to prevent doctors in Florida from removing the feeding tube Friday from a severely brain-damaged woman.

In a two-pronged approach, a House committee was issuing congressional subpoenas to stop doctors from disconnecting the tube, while an attorney for the parents of the woman, Terri Schiavo, said he would ask a federal judge in Tampa to block the removal and review the actions of state courts.

Such habeas corpus appeals seek to require the government to justify its actions.

"We are going to ask him to issue a stay because in this case, state action would be used to end the life of an innocent, disabled woman," the attorney, David Gibbs said.

Police in Pinellas Park, Fla., meanwhile, readied for the hundreds of protesters expected to show up outside Schiavo's hospice as the hours slipped away before the scheduled 1 p.m. removal of her feeding tube.

The Florida House on Thursday passed a bill 78-37 to block the withholding of food and water from patients in a persistent vegetative state who did not leave specific instructions regarding their care. But hours later, the Senate defeated a different measure 21-16, and one of the nine Republicans voting against indicated that any further votes would be futile.

In a last-ditch attempt to stop the court-ordered removal, a House committee on Capitol Hill here decided early Friday morning to start an investigation into Schiavo's case and issue subpoenas ordering doctors and hospice administrators not to remove her feeding tubes and to keep her alive until that investigation was complete.

The effort by the House Government Reform Committee came after lawmakers in both Washington and Tallahassee failed in attempts to pass legislation to keep her husband, Michael Schiavo, from having the tube pulled despite heavy lobbying by Schiavo's parents.

"This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her parents and friends and the millions of people throughout the world who are praying for her safety," House Speaker Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Government Reform chairman Tom Davis said in a joint statement. "This fight is not over."

The Government Reform Committee is the same committee that forced Major League Baseball players and officials to testify Thursday about steroid use.

It was not immediately known when the subpoenas would be delivered to Schiavo's hospice and doctors, or whether the Florida health care providers would recognize them. A possible penalty for not recognizing the subpoena is to be held in contempt of Congress, a GOP leadership aide said.

"Everything is a longshot," said Gibbs, attorney for Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler.

But several last-minute legal avenues were being tried, such as the habeas corpus appeal, which is commonly used in death penalty cases.

The Florida attorney general's office usually defends the state against habeas filings. A call to the office late Thursday for comment was not immediately returned.

As part of the last-minute flurry of activity, the Florida judge who approved the withdrawal of food and water from Schiavo denied a request from the state to keep her alive. The state appealed that decision to the Florida Supreme Court, which promptly dismissed it. The U.S. Supreme Court also denied another appeal.

At the White House, President Bush left little doubt where he stands.

"The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues," he said in a statement. "Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern."

His brother, Gov. Jeb Bush, long has supported the parents' efforts and urged lawmakers to act before it was too late.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped because of a chemical imbalance, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.

The court found that it was Terri Schiavo's wish not to kept alive in her current state and issued an order to remove the feeding tube Friday. Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, wouldn't comment on when and how the removal will take place or whether Michael Schiavo would visit his wife before it happened.

Doctors have said it could take a week or two for Terri Schiavo to die once the tube that delivers water and nutrients is removed.

---

On the Net:

Florida Legislature: http://www.leg.state.fl.us





YAY...just what we need more laws governing what we can and can't do! There is absolutely no reason for congress to stick their noses into this. It's already gone thru the court system.

Personally, if I was her I'd be pissed at my parents for making me live that half-life so long. Talk about purgatory, that's neither dead nor alive and is nothing more than a money drain as a monument to sentiment.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:50 am

At least shoot her in the head. Why do they have to make her starve to death?

Brain dead or not, I'd prefer a quick and painless death to dying from lack of nutrients.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Martrae » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:52 am

Because we reserve quick and painless deaths for criminals. Law abiding citizens with cancer and other ailments have to die painfully.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:54 am

At least harvest her organs for donors. Those 20 years of her laying their with no brain activity at a cost of millions should recoup something.

That or we need to find Doctor Frankensteen and apply the 'Abby Normal' brain into her head.

If we're going to kill her, do it quickly.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby The Kizzy » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:16 am

The husband wants her dead so he can cash in on her life insurance policy. He lives with another woman, but refuses to divorce his wife, because when she dies, he gets the money.

The parents don't think it is right. There is a lesson to be learned here. Advanced directives.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Martrae » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:39 am

I don't think any insurance policy is worth all this hassle.

Besides he turned down $10million to let her parents become guardians and has offered to donate any inheritance he might possibly get after all the doctor and lawyer fees.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Aires » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:03 am

[quote="Martrae"]Because we reserve quick and painless deaths for criminals. Law abiding citizens with cancer and other ailments have to die painfully.[/quote] Yeah isn't the use of logic wonderful. i love that.
Aires
NT Aviak
NT Aviak
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:51 pm

Postby dammuzis » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 pm

so basically what we have here is parents refusing to beleive their child is dead and making their child "stay alive" through the use of machines..

sounds like they need a wake up call
User avatar
dammuzis
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:45 pm
Location: my cubicle

Postby The Kizzy » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:23 pm

I'm staying out of this argument other to say it's murder, and you are all wrong.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Tacks » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:32 pm

Paging Doctor Kevorkian
Tacks
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 16393
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:18 pm
Location: PA

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:22 pm

Kizzy wrote:I'm staying out of this argument other to say it's murder, and you are all wrong.


She has zero brain activity. She is a vegetable. She will never think again. She will never be able to have any memory or knowledge of what is going on.

You support abortion, when a child is thinking, learning, growing, and developing and has the capacity for rationalization. However letting a person who has been brain dead for 20+ years and can't even feed themself die is murder?
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Harrison » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:28 pm

Kizzy wrote:I'm staying out of this argument other to say it's murder, and you are all wrong.


I think I just shat myself in shock...

The fact you are a woman is the only thing holding me back from total logic meltdown.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
User avatar
Harrison
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 20323
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:13 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Postby Harrison » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:29 pm

Last post is in relation to her supporting abortion for totally 100% selfish reasons.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
User avatar
Harrison
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 20323
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:13 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Postby Tacks » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:48 pm

Betting she comes back and says she was joking or somehow backs out of comment
Tacks
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 16393
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:18 pm
Location: PA

Postby The Kizzy » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:12 pm

Lyion wrote:
Kizzy wrote:I'm staying out of this argument other to say it's murder, and you are all wrong.


She has zero brain activity. She is a vegetable. She will never think again. She will never be able to have any memory or knowledge of what is going on.

You support abortion, when a child is thinking, learning, growing, and developing and has the capacity for rationalization. However letting a person who has been brain dead for 20+ years and can't even feed themself die is murder?


That can never be proven. Many doctors theorize that you can hear things and remember things when in a coma. I had a friend fall off hte back of a boat and get smacked int he head with the motor. She was in a coma for 6 months, but remembers "seeing" us in her dreams. Was she dreaming, or was she reacting to all her friends and family that came to visit her by her bedside? Noone can know for sure.

And before we turn this into an abortion discussion again, I have said it a thousand times, but let me say it again, I am not Pro Choice, I am pro mind your own damn business.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:16 pm

First, most of my friends agree with you, Kizz. I can see where you would condemn death where its not warranted.

In this case, she's already dead. The husband wants the feeding tube removed. How is this different from Pro Mind your own business?

She has no brain activity. She is legally brain dead. She will never function as a human again, merely a shell kept alive for her parents amusement, with none of the factors that make a person human

She is not in a coma. She is alive with no brain activity.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby The Kizzy » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:17 pm

Because with all the advances in modern medicine I think that at a later time, she could be saved.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:19 pm

Her brain is dead due to lack of oxygen when she collasped.

We'll be able to save her the same time we can bring people back from the dead. I am the most fervent Pro Life person out there. This is not promoting life, despite what anyone says. It is keeping a shell with a brain that does not function alive.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Harrison » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:19 pm

Coma is vastly different from brain damage.

And while I don't particularly support "shutting her off"

I sure as fuck am perplexed as to why you would support abortion and decide that THIS is murder. I mean holy fuck, pick a side.
How do you like this spoiler, motherfucker? -Lyion
User avatar
Harrison
NT Legend
NT Legend
 
Posts: 20323
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:13 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Postby Eziekial » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:21 pm

The state should have pulled the plug LONGGGGG ago. If the parents where serious about her recovery, they could just buy the equipment that's keeping her alive and move her in with them. Problem solved.
User avatar
Eziekial
NT Traveller
NT Traveller
 
Posts: 3282
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: Florida

Postby Lyion » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:23 pm

Court Documents wrote: Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fed and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had numerous health problems, but none have been life threatening.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.


She is brain dead. Her body functions, but her brain is gone.

Actually, if a tiny bit of her were alive, it'd be like she was living a synonym of the Mettalica song 'One'.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Martrae » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:43 pm

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.


http://www.reason.com/links/links102303.shtml
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Diekan » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:55 pm

They need to pull the "plug" it's time. Actually, it was "time" years and years ago, but at this point - it's just a waste of money.
User avatar
Diekan
NT Deity
NT Deity
 
Posts: 5736
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 am

Postby Eziekial » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:09 pm

It is a drain on resourses that could be used elsewhere to help those with legitimate health issues that can be addressed.
User avatar
Eziekial
NT Traveller
NT Traveller
 
Posts: 3282
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:43 pm
Location: Florida

Postby Ginzburgh » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:34 pm

Actually, if a tiny bit of her were alive, it'd be like she was living a synonym of the Mettalica song 'One'.


Awesome video.
Ginzburgh
Nappy Headed Ho
Nappy Headed Ho
 
Posts: 7353
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:30 pm

Next

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests