Jobs vs Gates

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Jobs vs Gates

Postby Jimmy Durante » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:41 pm

http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,700 ... _tophead_4

Until recently, Bill Gates has been viewed as the villain of the tech world, while his archrival, Steve Jobs, enjoys an almost saintly reputation.

Gates is the cutthroat capitalist. A genius maybe, but one more interested in maximizing profits than perfecting technology. He's the ultimate vengeful nerd. Ostracized at school, he gets the last laugh by bleeding us all dry.

On the other hand, Jobs has never seemed much concerned with business, though he's been very successful at it of late. Instead, Jobs has been portrayed as a man of art and culture. He's an aesthete, an artist; driven to make a dent in the universe.

But these perceptions are wrong. In fact, the reality is reversed. It's Gates who's making a dent in the universe, and Jobs who's taking on the role of single-minded capitalist, seemingly oblivious to the broader needs of society.

Gates is giving away his fortune with the same gusto he spent acquiring it, throwing billions of dollars at solving global health problems. He has also spoken out on major policy issues, for example, by opposing proposals to cut back the inheritance tax.

In contrast, Jobs does not appear on any charitable contribution lists of note. And Jobs has said nary a word on behalf of important social issues, reserving his talents of persuasion for selling Apple products.

According to Forbes, Jobs was recently worth $3.3 billion which puts him among the 194th richest in the world, and makes him the 67th richest American. But the standings were shuffled on Tuesday with Disney's $7.4 billion acquisition of Pixar Animation -- a deal that makes Jobs' Pixar holdings alone worth some $3.7 billion.

But great wealth does not make a great man.

Giving USA Foundation, a philanthropy research group which publishes an annual charity survey, said Jobs does not appear on lists of gifts of $5 million or more over the last four years. Nor is his name on a list of gifts of $1 million or more compiled by Indiana University's Center on Philanthropy.

Jobs' wife is also absent from these philanthropic lists, although she has made dozens of political donations totaling tens of thousands of dollars to the Democrats, according to the Open Secrets database.

Of course, Jobs and his wife may be giving enormous sums of money to charity anonymously. If they are funneling cash to various causes in private, their names wouldn't show up on any lists, regardless of the size of their gifts.

For a person as private as Jobs, who shuns any publicity about his family life, this seems credible. If so, however, this would make Jobs virtually unique among moguls. Richard Jolly, chairman of Giving USA Foundation, said not all billionaires give their money away, but a lot do, and most do not do it quietly.

"We see it over and over again," he said. "Very wealthy individuals do support the organizations and institutions they believe in."

That's certainly true of Gates, who not only gives vast sums away, but also speaks up in support of the organizations and institutions he believes in.

This is not the case for Jobs. To the best of my knowledge, in the last decade or more, Jobs has not spoken up on any social or political issue he believes in -- with the exception of admitting he's a big Bob Dylan fan.

Rather, he uses social issues to support his own selfish business goals. In the Think Different campaign, Jobs used cultural figures he admired to sell computers -- figures who stuck their necks out to fight racism, poverty, inequality or war.

Jobs once offered to be an advisor to Sen. John Kerry during the 2004 presidential election, and he invited President Clinton over for dinner when Bubba visited Silicon Valley in 1996 -- hardly evidence of deep political convictions.

Jobs can't even get behind causes that would seem to carry deep personal meaning, let alone lasting social importance. Like Lance Armstrong, he is a cancer survivor. But unlike Armstrong, Jobs has so far done little publicly to raise money or awareness for the disease.

Given Jobs' social detachment, I'm confused by the adulation he enjoys. Yes, he has great charisma and his presentations are good theater. But his absence from public discourse makes him a cipher. People project their values onto him, and he skates away from the responsibilities that come with great wealth and power.

On the evidence, he's nothing more than a greedy capitalist who's amassed an obscene fortune. It's shameful. In almost every way, Gates is much more deserving of Jobs' rock star exaltation.

In the same way, I admire Bono over Mick Jagger, and John Lennon over Elvis, because they spoke up about things bigger than their own celebrity.

It's time for Jobs to do the same.


Interesting perspective.
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Postby Yamori » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:10 pm

It always bugs me when people make a villain out of gates. He almost single handedly layed the foundations for making personal computers a major part of the world. The effects this has had on almost all aspects of society and life: now and in the future, are staggeringly astronomical. All arguments over his methods aside, if it weren't for his vision, PC's wouldn't have made the impact that they have.

That alone is a good enough contribution to the world that his spending habbits are irrelevent, in my eyes.
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Postby Harrison » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:41 pm

No, fuck Gates, fuck him up his stupid ass.
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Postby Tikker » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:55 pm

I don't understand why someone who doesn't give money away is seen as a bad man tho
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Postby DESX » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:26 am

Tikker wrote:I don't understand why someone who doesn't give money away is seen as a bad man tho


He is accused of using illegal monopoly tactics etc.....

Don't really care to much about that really. He donates 1 billion USD per year from his Bill & Melinda Gates foundation charity.

>They have donated 100 million to help children with aids.

>They provide 90% of the money used worldwide to erradicate polio.

>US$750 million to the international Vaccine Fund to help fight diseases such as diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, poliomyelitis and yellow fever.

>Donated 3 million in Indian Ocean Earthquake.

Don't care if anyone says "Well thats only 1 billion out of his like tens of billions that he makes annually" yeah well shit a billion is still a billion don't see why he is such a bad guy either.
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Postby Harrison » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:43 am

I see you suck his cock even if it doesn't have to do with your shitty 360.
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Postby Ouchyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:13 am

Hitting on the "only a billion" point, I was curious that if I give away 1/80th or so of my net worth to charity does that make any evils I carry out dissolve away into sugary goodness? If so, then I'm a fucking saint.
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Postby Drem » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:29 am

What's wrong with Bill Gates? He's a good samaritan and computers wouldn't be anywhere w/o him.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:05 am

Yamori wrote:It always bugs me when people make a villain out of gates. He almost single handedly layed the foundations for making personal computers a major part of the world.


Actually, the exact opposite is true. Gates has done more damage to the programming community and personal computers than Hitler did to the Jews.

He's leveraged a desktop monopoly illegally stifling competition. He's spent much of the billions MS made in overt defiance of anti trust by trying to put other companies out of business by making deals with vendors.

Netscape sure had a great web product. Too bad MS spent a few billion, bundled IE with Windows after buying the product from another company that licenses it, and illegally screwed their competition there.

Want a Dell, Gateway, etc, etc, with another OS? Sorry, they are required to sell Windows with each PC due to licensing agreements with MS.

Likewise, while his vaccination program is noble, a huge amount of his 'charitable' contributions end up back in MS' coffers, due to them entailing giving gifts of PCs with Microsoft products.

It's ironic every piece of the PC market has plummetted in price over the last 15 years... Except the OS, which is more expensive than ever. MS makes more profit on a piece of software than the hardware manufacturers make, which is outrageous, but gets little poor press.

It'd be wonderful of OS/2, BEos, Linux, etc could get any share, but due to shady and illegal deals and underhanded politics MS continues to leverage their desktop monopoly to try and win in markets in ways that the DOJ should be jumping all over.

Watch how Vista bundles SEARCH into the core OS to compete better with Google. MS has already announced that. Does that sound like a company with a monopoly enabling fair competition?

No, MS has killed thousands of small companies and continues to be the bane of the IT world due to their methods, and until someone else leverages real competition to their monopoly, or the EU or the US care more they'll continue to screw the programmer and stifle technology and PC cost.
Last edited by Lyion on Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DESX » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:11 am

Harrison wrote:I see you suck his cock even if it doesn't have to do with your shitty 360.


Just like you getting double stuffed by ICP's cock.
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Postby Eziekial » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:45 am

The author of the above article strikes me as a liberal. :dunno:
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Postby Tikker » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:18 am

DESX wrote:
Tikker wrote:I don't understand why someone who doesn't give money away is seen as a bad man tho


He is accused of using illegal monopoly tactics etc.....

Don't really care to much about that really. He donates 1 billion USD per year from his Bill & Melinda Gates foundation charity.

>They have donated 100 million to help children with aids.

>They provide 90% of the money used worldwide to erradicate polio.

>US$750 million to the international Vaccine Fund to help fight diseases such as diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, poliomyelitis and yellow fever.

>Donated 3 million in Indian Ocean Earthquake.

Don't care if anyone says "Well thats only 1 billion out of his like tens of billions that he makes annually" yeah well shit a billion is still a billion don't see why he is such a bad guy either.


wts reading comprehension


I'm talking about Jobs

you know, the guy not giving money away
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Postby Ouchyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:29 am

Tikker wrote:
DESX wrote:
Tikker wrote:I don't understand why someone who doesn't give money away is seen as a bad man tho


He is accused of using illegal monopoly tactics etc.....

Don't really care to much about that really. He donates 1 billion USD per year from his Bill & Melinda Gates foundation charity.

>They have donated 100 million to help children with aids.

>They provide 90% of the money used worldwide to erradicate polio.

>US$750 million to the international Vaccine Fund to help fight diseases such as diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, poliomyelitis and yellow fever.

>Donated 3 million in Indian Ocean Earthquake.

Don't care if anyone says "Well thats only 1 billion out of his like tens of billions that he makes annually" yeah well shit a billion is still a billion don't see why he is such a bad guy either.


wts reading comprehension


I'm talking about Jobs

you know, the guy not giving money away


:rofl:
Lyion wrote:If Hillary wins Texas and Ohio, she'll win the nomination.


Tossica wrote:Seriously, there is NO WAY Sony is going to put HD-DVD out of the game.
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Postby Gaazy » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:00 am

lol well fuck, if i was in Gates' position with the billions to spend like that, I would do the same fucking thing and corner the market so I make profit on everything
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Postby Adivina » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:20 am

Welcome to capitalist society people. If you can make the money, you are free to do so. Get off Gate's nuts just because its the cool thing to do (not referring to everyone in this post, some people do have VALID anti-Gates posts), the truth of the matter is he has made more money than you will ever see in his life and all you can do is angstily ride on his coattails and be miserable about it.

(Again directed at the bandwagon people here, if you actually can provide good reasons to dislike someone or something instead of "fuck them", I respect everyone's opinion.)
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Postby Ouchyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:59 pm

I hate him because the fucker owes me 2 billion on a bet we made in 1989.
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Postby Harrison » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:53 pm

I hate him because he stifles creativity and makes shitty products we're forced to use.

Plus his money grubbing hot wife!
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Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:20 pm

I call BS on that Dell requires windows. That is not true at all.

Windows is where it is because of where it was and what it did to get here today.

IMHO the only real threat to MS is the linux flavours and OS-X.

You can get any almost any PC you want with redhat supported by that reseller in many cases.

You MS haters sometimes don't have a clue. You think "nix" is the best thing since sliced bread, you ever bought open source from IBM, you every tried open source in a mulit-million dollar company? Some of you sure have and do. I'll laugh in your face with nix has a "decent" percent of hte market place and you get pegged with adverse software (virus, bots, etc).

As for MS and how there are where they are? Well most of you anti-ms folks are reps, they didn't do anything against the law, according to our court systems LOL. He did what any good business man would do.

Now for EU that is another matter, I'm sure you've heard he is opening windows source code (or perhaps you missed that golden nugget, BTW this isn't in stone just yet but it is very likely to happen, and what this means, not sure yet but IMHO a good thing).

Why don't you MS haters go install nix on your Mom's pc and see how far they get.

I go both ways when it comes to any flavor of OS but to say MS is shit, you are wrong and Lyion to compare MS to the holocost damn man, that just ain't right.

BTW google sold out to the man years ago. MS is running its business like any other in that position, shit on whomever they can to get money in the door. That is the american way, havn't you heard? Go jump back on your HP-UX, AIX or name your flavor (none linux) and take a look at the bills you pay for maintainence.

Ok i rambled big time and jumped all over the place, im done thanks
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Postby Eldred » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:29 pm

Harrison wrote:Plus his money grubbing hot wife!


Did he get divorced and remarried or something cause the last pic I saw of him and his wife, well she was pretty plain. Looked like a 3rd grade teacher, a libriarian or something.
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Postby Jeddas » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:56 pm

The way ive always understood it, in one sentence, was jobs and wosnak(sp) had the ideas, created everything, gates moved in the for steal by using his mommys money to get the rights to dos, blah blah wtfpwned and now we all use shitty pc's
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Postby ClakarEQ » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 pm

That is pretty far from accurate jeddas but I'm sure he did use his moms money and I know (from readying) he wasn't fully upfront with whom he partnered.

And Jobs and Woz did some wonderfull things as well, but ultimatly Jobs got fired from apple, of course he bailed them out years later but from what I understand, Jobs is a real dick head.

Gates is where he is because of a license model we all hate today, pay me for every instance you install (that pretty much carries the same tune today).

putting aside my derailment, I do think he has done some great things and deserves the kudos for it.
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Postby Harrison » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:37 pm

He knows from readying guys, rest assured, we're all ultimatly wrong.

I'm sure your books were wonderfull and all, but you're clueless.
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Postby Diekan » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:44 pm

Eldred wrote:
Harrison wrote:Plus his money grubbing hot wife!


Did he get divorced and remarried or something cause the last pic I saw of him and his wife, well she was pretty plain. Looked like a 3rd grade teacher, a libriarian or something.


teachers and libriarians are hawt.
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Postby Eldred » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:04 pm

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Postby Tikker » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:32 am

ClakarEQ wrote:You MS haters sometimes don't have a clue. You think "nix" is the best thing since sliced bread, you ever bought open source from IBM, you every tried open source in a mulit-million dollar company? Some of you sure have and do. I'll laugh in your face with nix has a "decent" percent of hte market place and you get pegged with adverse software (virus, bots, etc).


Have you ever actually been inside a multi million dollar company?

Go into any major data centre and count the windows servers

now count all the SUN, HPUX, and AIX(IBM) machines


windows is probably out numbered 500-1 in most of them


Windows is great for the desktop, but Unix kicks the ever living shit out of it for servers
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