Whole Foods Market

[Drem]

he just confuses the industry terms for the scientific terms. and tries to act all fuckin cool about it. we've had this argument a million times. he's always wrong

or he thinks putting miracle gro on his tomatoes makes them somehow better when really they're just bigger and have less flavor. or that soaking beef in ammonia or raising chickens in piles of their own excrement after they broke their legs so the muscles stay unused and tender are defensible practises. or he's trolling. i'm not sure

[Zanchief]

Or how about food containing botchulism because there's no regulation on organic foods so they can pretty much do what ever they want without proper health guildlines and claim it's a natural.

I'll take my government approved food that's been properly tested over your diseased "natural" foods.

[Zanchief]

Is that a grass fed horse that's being led to water?

Next you're probably gonna say that supplemental vitamins are a waste of time and money.

In many cases, yes.

[Zanchief]

just because you're too stupid to understand the difference between using chemicals to produce food and using water and compost isn't anyone else's fault.

Chemicals? Dear lord that sounds complicated. I don’t understand it there for it must be unhealthy. I don’t care how many scientists line up to tell me otherwise, I believe my naturopath knows better then all those quacks anyway.

[Drem]

god you're a miserable person

99% of botulism comes from canned foods. takes anaerobic conditions to support botulism. impossible for fruits and veggies to get contaminated unless a human fucks it up

i've never heard of this concept that natural food is somehow diseased. farming was natural for 10,000 years before Scotts started making miracle gro out of radioactive byproducts and Muller found out DDT worked. this shit has only been going on for like 50 years. how can you be so sure it's safe? no one's even lived a full life yet eating this garbage

i'm not saying pesticides are bad, either. natural pesticides have been used for thousands of years. sulfur dusting, pyrethrum, rotenone, nicotine, etc.... but no i'm not gonna buy the cheapest bag of carrots on the market to use in my restaurant because a) they're going to taste like shit and b) they're going to look like they were grown on a rooftop garden on reactor 4 over at Chernobyl

[Drem]

don't bother posting any more, you don't know what you're talking about. or keep living in fear and eating shitty food, whatever makes you happy

[Zanchief]

how can you be so sure it's safe?

It's not so much that I'm sure as there are two people with conflicting theories. On one side there's scientific community. On the other side we have people who discredit science based on mumbo jumbo, conjecture, or just baseless assumptions.

Which do you think is right?

[Zanchief]

or keep living in fear and eating shitty food, whatever makes you happy

I'm living in fear? The entire organic movement started by fear mongers. Oh no pesticides. Oh no corn syrup. Oh no growth hormones. These things are healthy. If you want to pay more for food without them, that's cool. I'm just pointing out you're wrong.

[Arlos]

You know, Zan, Corn syrup CAN be bad in certain cases. As an example, my nephew is allergic to corn in general. Doesn't matter what kind: on the cob, popcorn, whatever. So, anything with corn syrup in it makes him sick. Are we wrong to avoid foods with corn syrup in his case? (He's a really sensitive Celiac too, if it matters, so we're already having to watch what we get for food for him religiously, to make sure no gluten as well.)

YOU try and find a broad range of mass-market food products that are both corn and gluten free outside of the Organic food marketplace, and tell me we're idiots for shopping there for him.

-Arlos

[Drem]

ok we can meet in the middle here

i think that science can tell you the immediate effects of these chemicals on your body but can't tell what you'll feel like or what it might do over the course of your life. i'm not on board with going to the hippy-infested local foods store and getting food that's still got dirt on it. but i'm not down for buying produce and meat at WinCo, either

i might be a little unorthodox tho compared to most people i know.... unlike most that go and buy "groceries" for a week or a month or whatever i just go to one particular market for veggies/dairy because i trust their consistency in quality product. and i go to my favorite local deli for any meat. same deli that provides for our restaurant. pretty much hit up the markets on a daily basis. i hate buying food and letting it sit around for a week before i cook it

i try to just keep my money circulating locally.... i've never been to a Trader Joe's

[Zanchief]

That is kind of an isolated issue, Arlos. He could just as much be allergic to something only found in organic foods (like pretension) and he'd be forced to shop in the regular isle with the great unwashed.

[Zanchief]

ok we can meet in the middle here

i think that science can tell you the immediate effects of these chemicals on your body but can't tell what you'll feel like or what it might do over the course of your life. i'm not on board with going to the hippy-infested local foods store and getting food that's still got dirt on it. but i'm not down for buying produce and meat at WinCo, either

i might be a little unorthodox tho compared to most people i know.... unlike most that go and buy "groceries" for a week or a month or whatever i just go to one particular market for veggies/dairy because i trust their consistency in quality product. and i go to my favorite local deli for any meat. same deli that provides for our restaurant. pretty much hit up the markets on a daily basis. i hate buying food and letting it sit around for a week before i cook it

i try to just keep my money circulating locally.... i've never been to a Trader Joe's

Obviously you get better meat from a deli or butcher then you do from a grocery store. Doesn't mean it's unhealthy though, or as Mindia said, poisonous.

[Drem]

the only reasons i said "living in fear" was because you claimed organic foods are diseased and have a particular disease they most likely can't even contract

i'm ServSafe certified, that's a national food service and safety guidelines type of deal that overrules state-by-state food handlers cards. i'm very well versed in every foodborne illness and almost every common industry technique and production method. i'm not some fuckin hippy that thinks the government is poisoning our waters. i'm with the FDA for the most part, i just can't behind a few things

and see your language isn't even accurate for some things. no one's ever made a stink about "corn syrup". what people, and the film King Corn are talking about, is High Fructose Corn Syrup, which are two very different things. one undergoes enzymatic processing involving sulfuric acid. i'm sure a scientist can run some test and say eating syrup processed from corn soaking in sulfuric acid is "safe", but scientists didn't even know radioactivity was a bad thing until all those sailors died at Bikini Island. that's what i don't trust science about the effects of things that were basically just invented. science doesn't know things are bad until they actually go wrong. and all i have to do is look at how fucking fat this country is and how many cases of diabetes there are nowadays to see that things like HFCS are terrible

[10sun]

Fun fact:
Organic vegetables have a higher risk of e. coli than non-organic.
Something to do about organic farmers using animal shit to fertilize their crops.

[Drem]

ok we can meet in the middle here

i think that science can tell you the immediate effects of these chemicals on your body but can't tell what you'll feel like or what it might do over the course of your life. i'm not on board with going to the hippy-infested local foods store and getting food that's still got dirt on it. but i'm not down for buying produce and meat at WinCo, either

i might be a little unorthodox tho compared to most people i know.... unlike most that go and buy "groceries" for a week or a month or whatever i just go to one particular market for veggies/dairy because i trust their consistency in quality product. and i go to my favorite local deli for any meat. same deli that provides for our restaurant. pretty much hit up the markets on a daily basis. i hate buying food and letting it sit around for a week before i cook it

i try to just keep my money circulating locally.... i've never been to a Trader Joe's

Obviously you get better meat from a deli or butcher then you do from a grocery store. Doesn't mean it's unhealthy though, or as Mindia said, poisonous.

no, it isn't unhealthy, it's just dogfood status. i remember getting a prime rib from winco and it had like 7 actual channels of gristle down the entire cut. even the tail was tough and flavorless. zero marbling. get that shit out of my kitchen

[Drem]

Fun fact:
Organic vegetables have a higher risk of e. coli than non-organic.
Something to do about organic farmers using animal shit to fertilize their crops.

all crops are fertilized with fecal matter. organic are like 5% more susceptible to e. coli than conventional. however, same study also found salmonella and it was only on the organic lettuce. you can't wash that off....

anyways tho, all it comes down to is the people caring (or not) for the food during production and transportation. it's not going to poison itself. probably the worst aspect of the industry is that it can't all be done with robots yet

[Zanchief]

i'm sure a scientist can run some test and say eating syrup processed from corn soaking in sulfuric acid is "safe"

They can, and have.

[Tikker]

.

[Narrock]

Fun fact:
Organic vegetables have a higher risk of e. coli than non-organic.
Something to do about organic farmers using animal shit to fertilize their crops.

all crops are fertilized with fecal matter. organic are like 5% more susceptible to e. coli than conventional. however, same study also found salmonella and it was only on the organic lettuce. you can't wash that off....

anyways tho, all it comes down to is the people caring (or not) for the food during production and transportation. it's not going to poison itself. probably the worst aspect of the industry is that it can't all be done with robots yet

The CDC issued some statements about this. They said it was equal in regards to possible E. Coli contamination for both conventional and organic growing methods. They furthermore pretty much stated that it's up to farm workers to take proper precautions, as well as the consumer... that they need to thoroughly wash produce before consuming regardless of how it was grown. I can't do it right now, but I will post the link later.

[Drem]

i'm sure a scientist can run some test and say eating syrup processed from corn soaking in sulfuric acid is "safe"

They can, and have.

yuck, how can you even consume that shit. do you drink soda a lot ?

[Arlos]

i'm sure a scientist can run some test and say eating syrup processed from corn soaking in sulfuric acid is "safe"

They can, and have.

To be fair, though, Zan, how many of those scientists were funded by the corn industry?

Remember for years that scientists funded by the tobacco industry swore up and down that their tests all showed that tobacco was completely safe, and cigarettes were not harmful in any way? Obviously, that was all so much bullshit. So, when I hear similar sorts of pronouncements of safety, I think they need to be taken with a hefty dose of salt, and you need to know who the scientists involved are shilling for, if anyone.

-Arlos

[brinstar]

i ate horse once

it was good

[Zanchief]

i'm sure a scientist can run some test and say eating syrup processed from corn soaking in sulfuric acid is "safe"

They can, and have.

To be fair, though, Zan, how many of those scientists were funded by the corn industry?

There have been plenty of studies done by people not involved with big corn. For that matter why do you believe it's bad? There should be some evidence of it being harmful by the rogue hippy scientists? Not the case. It's just as harmful as regular sugar. The only issue I have with it is they put it in everything to make it taste appealing. This is why it’s terrible for things like diabetes. You eat a loaf of bread with HFCS in it, well that’s bad. That’s just simple nutrition though. People should be paying attention to what they eat, organic or otherwise.

They have Pepsi with cane sugar in it now. That makes me laugh. I guess it’s good for your nephew though.

The tobacco thing is true, but there was just less oversight back then. People were less paranoid in the 50s about that kind of stuff. Now you have independent groups looking into this, plus the FDA and other groups have no stake in this.

Yes I drink soft drinks, Drem. They are my biggest vice. I drink about 3 cans a week. I know it’s bad for me but shrug I like it.

[Griever]

Only 3 cans a week?? I go through 3 or more cans a day. I only drink diet sodas though, but I know that really isn't much better.

[Zanchief]

It's much better. The real damage with "soda" are the calories and sugar. Neither are in diet drinks. I just don't have a taste for them though.