Hey Tossica...

[Tikker]

how's that welfare working out for you

[Harrison]

You sure you aren't a crackhead?

[Lueyen]

holy shit, this isn't always about the Self centered states of america

Besides the general thread derail, to which you were a part of, how is discussing the laws of the US, and the willingness or lack there of, of US citizens to obey them NOT about the US?

[Harrison]

Pay no mind to crackheads.

[Lyion]

The original basis of this thread was in regards to potheads and their ignoring of the laws, due to moral righteousness. This isn't a US thread, and Tikker has been discussing it since the get go.

[Arlos]

Except there's a more fundamental right being considered here, that is far more reaching than just "The desire to smoke pot". Sure, engaging in civil disobedience to burn a weed at will seems a bit silly. But that's a symptom of the issue, not the issue itself.

The REAL issue is whether or not we believe the government should have the right to tell consenting adults what they may or may not do with their lives and their bodies when what they want to do impacts only themselves or equally consenting adults. Why SHOULD the government be able to restrict the control we have over our own bodies? Does not control imply ownership? If you own something, you control it. Do you believe that citizens are at least partly owned by the state in which they reside? If not, by what rationale do you believe the state can tell a freely consenting adult what they can or cannot do to themselves?

Note that laws preventing you from robbing, stealing, harming, etc. anyone else exist, and would continue to exist irrespective of the status of drug law. Nothing about legalizing further intoxicants would in any way change those other laws.

See, I believe that consenting adults should have the right to engage in whatever pastimes they see fit, so long as they're not harming anyone else thereby. That whole "Pursuit of Happiness" business, you know. Some people here are obviously just fine with the State telling them what they can and cannot do in the privacy of their own homes, and so cede away their absolute ownership of their own bodies. I can't understand that, but given that sodomy laws, anti-dildo/vibrator laws, etc. all exist, apparently some people are more than OK with letting the State run their private lives. Such voluntary abrogation of personal freedoms, I will never understand, however....

-Arlos

[Martrae]

But you want socialized medicine where the government tells you what treatments you can have and which doctors to go to?

You can't have it both ways...either you want the government to keep it's grimy hands off your body or you want it to kiss your boo-boos and make it all better.

[Tossica]

The OPTION for socialized medicine. There is a very big difference.

[Martrae]

Not really. It's still giving them more control over you.

[Tossica]

Hmmm... no healthcare or healthcare that is paid for by the government... not a real tough decision.

[Evermore]

or get a job that provides healthcare and stop being a drain on society.
Personally I dont want to be dependant on government handouts

[Gargamellow]

Evermore has a good point. I don't want to be waiting in line.

[Tikker]

Except there's a more fundamental right being considered here, that is far more reaching than just "The desire to smoke pot".

I really don't see the ability to get wasted as anything remotely near a fundamental right

[Tossica]

or get a job that provides healthcare and stop being a drain on society.
Personally I dont want to be dependant on government handouts

More and more jobs are getting lower quality insurance or not offering it at all.


Health "insurance" is a fucking scam in general.

[Tikker]

you guys have all been so steeped in the US propoganda of how anything socialized is bad/wrong/evil that I don't think you really have any concept of what socialized medicine is like

[Gargamellow]

I hate to disagree with you, Tikker. But getting wasted IS right in this country.

BTW, it is impossible to get wasted/out of control on weed. (Not alcohol, though!)

I have literally been pulled over for driving TOO SLOW on weed.

I don't understand why people who don't smoke weed hate so much on the people who do. I don't smoke weed anymore. But I only quit because I have to obey the norms of the society I choose to live in if I want to advance politically.

Weed is less harmful than alcohol, smoking cigs, and X Games. What is your major malfunction?

One of these days you will walk in on your mom or dad, or someone else you respect, puffing on a big old doobie or sharing a blunt with the whore next door. On that day, post what you find so we can all get a chuckle watching you realize that the majority of our "great country" is smoking mary jane.

[Arlos]

How many times do I have to say that my vision of health care is one where DOCTORS make the decisions on medical issues? Not middle managers looking to preserve bonuses? I've said repeatedly that I don't think health care should be allowed to be a for-profit industry. It should be forced to become non-profit, so that there's no longer a financial incentive to deny necessary procedures in order to preserve a profit margin.

Once we have that, and have insurance companies that are no longer profit based, the government's role in universal health care is simply to pay for insurance for all of its citizens. Thus relieving employers of the necessity for doing so, making it easier for small business to operate AND making it easier for companies like the big 3 automakers, who are currently crippled by payments they have to make for medical insurance for retired auto workers.

So no, you wouldn't ever have some man from the government telling you what you can and can't do. Medical decisions would be made by your doctor, whom you would get to choose just as freely as now. The government would simply make the payments. But this is a tangent from what we were discussing.

Tikker, once again you went off on a red herring. Didn't I say that the "right to get high" was a symptom of the underlying issue, not the main issue itself? Again, the REAL issue is whether or not the state can tell consenting adults what they can and cannot do in the privacy of their own homes either by themselves or with other completely consenting adults.

Yes, getting high is one aspect of that issue. But so is "sodomy". There are states (or at least were until recently), where it was a CRIME to get or receive a blow job, or to "do it in da butt", as it were. Texas for years had a law making vibrators and dildos illegal. Those are other aspects of the *SAME* issue. Prostitution is another; I mean, why should the government be able to tell someone they can't sell something that they could give away free perfectly legally? The list of aspects is long, frankly.

But again, the underlying issue is whether or not the government should have ANY right to tell its citizens what they can and cannot do with THEIR OWN BODIES, and/or with other equally fully consenting adults. I say they should not, that no one should have any claim of ownership over me, and that what I choose to do with my time should be MY choice, not some bureaucrat's. I ask again, by what right does the State get to claim OWNERSHIP of its citizenry?

-Arlos

[Gargamellow]

I have to obey the norms of the society I choose to live in

[Evermore]

Weed is less harmful than alcohol, smoking cigs, and X Games. What is your major malfunction?

.

not true.

[Gargamellow]

Absolutely true!

Prove me wrong. Oh wait..you can't!

[ClakarEQ]

Everyone seems to forget how god like Tikker is. He doesn't drink, smoke, or speed in his car, he breaks no laws, he does no wrongs. He doesn't question law and just goes with the flow, he is the perfect lemming. We should be honored by your presence, you perfection of man you.

Truth be told my biggest beef with illegal drugs is that if alcohol is legal, then this should be a base line of non-prescription mind altering drugs, yet most drugs, pot in particular, has been proven to be less harmful than alcohol, but is illegal and if you look into the history of why it is, you'll see it was pharmaceuticals that paid government to make it illegal, not the people.

Triel, thanks for the clarification, but it seemed to twist into something more than just that summary of yours.

Taxx, not sure if you drink, but assuming you do, you realize alcohol is a mind altering substance, so any pity for me and my "bad habits" you should internalize for yourself as you appear to be in denial. Even 1, 4.2% beer, alters your mind.

As for the socialized health care, it has to start somewhere, (not saying this is "socialized health care" but an ok read) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20255585/

EDIT
Good gosh I took to long to post, had like 5 ninjas.

Garg, Tikker does respect pot smokers, he just doesn't realize many of the folks he either reads, watches, listens too, etc are stoners. While he claims we listen to the US propaganda machine on health care, HE is wrapped up in his own anti-pot propaganda machine, talk about a hypocrite

[Naethyn]

Everyone seems to forget how god like Tikker is. He doesn't drink, smoke, or speed in his car, he breaks no laws, he does no wrongs. He doesn't question law and just goes with the follow, he is the perfect lemming. We should be honored by your presence, you perfection of man you.

Truth be told my biggest beef with illegal drugs is that if alcohol is legal, then this should be a base line of non-prescription mind altering drugs, yet most drugs, pot in particular, has been proven to be less harmful than alcohol, but is illegal and if you look into the history of why it is, you'll see it was pharmaceuticals that paid government to make it illegal, not the people.

Triel, thanks for the clarification, but it seemed to twist into something more than just that summary of yours.

Taxx, not sure if you drink, but assuming you do, you realize alcohol is a mind altering substance, so any pity for me and my "bad habits" you should internalize for yourself as you appear to be in denial. Even 1, 4.2% beer, alters your mind.

As for the socialized health care, it has to start somewhere, (not saying this is "socialized health care" but an ok read) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20255585/

EDIT
Good gosh I took to long to post, had like 5 ninjas.

Garg, Tikker does respect pot smokers, he just doesn't realize many of the folks he either reads, watches, listens too, etc are stoners. While he claims we listen to the US propaganda machine on health care, HE is wrapped up in his own anti-pot propaganda machine, talk about a hypocrite

word

[Gargamellow]

LOL word

[The Kizzy]

pfffttt....heeerre maaaaan try this shit. hehhehehheeh

[Gargamellow]

GIGGLES LOLL