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by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:51 am

I've decided I want to learn programming. Yes, I know programming jobs are heading to India.

Which is 'the' language to learn? Which is the best book or books to get to learn it? I'd prefer a book with a disk for hands on practice of what I learn.

SQL
ASP
PHP
C++
Visual Basic
whatever

I already know HTML and have futzed around a little bit with other languages here and there but nothing serious or in depth.

by **Harrison** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:55 am

If you need any books on those tell me, I can get them. They will be in digital form though... (free to boot)

by **Adivina** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:03 am

If you need any reference material, I can send you digital forms too. My college provides digital copies for free as a branch off of the library.

Honestly what language you learn depends on what you plan on doing. Personally, I am trying to learn as much about each language and as many languages as I can.

by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:41 am

I don't know what I want to do with it. It wouldn't suck if I could parlay it into a decent job once the kids are all in school (or even one I could telecommute to now), but for the moment it's mostly just for my personal enrichment.

What are custom apps for businesses wrote in? I see more and more webpages using XML and PHP, would that be worthwhile to pursue?

Which one has the most chance for sticking around for a while (with upgrades) and which are going to be 'dead' languages?

by **Harrison** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:42 am

If you want to mess around with an incredibly simple language learn VB. It's actually pretty fun.

by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:46 am

I don't care about simple...my brain needs more of a challenge than arguing on NT.

by **Trielelvan** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:50 am

I would start with C++ or visual basic and go from there. They are the simplest to learn and help you get a real feel for the whole premise of programming as a whole.
Like Adi said, it really depends on what you want to do when you're done. That's where you start.

Note: and if you ever take classes for said languages, don't ever refer to HTML as a programming "language." I know that's what it's called, but it is not a true language, anymore than Javascript is. Well, that and it will keep the prof from laughing at you.

by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:56 am

Thanx, guys....and gals.

by **Adivina** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:58 am

C++ and VB are where to start really, you will find a lot of other languages (and sub languages like java and javascript) have a lot in common with their syntax and code.

by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:44 am

So are the Sam's 21 days books any good? I need something I can physically hold in my hands and 90000000000 pages printed out don't count.

Also, what about SQL? Worthwhile to learn or no?

by **Adivina** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:53 am

If you plan on doing any databasing work with your programming it is more than worth it.

by **Martrae** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:57 am

Database is where the money is now, no?

by **Lyion** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:29 am

Python, Perl, Shell Scripting, and basic Java are better if you are looking to be productive and to actually learn about programming. Those are much better starting places. They are easy to learn and have many more resources.

I'd highly recommend downloading Python and starting with it. You can use it on Windows or Unix. There is a wealth of examples of code out there that makes sense, unlike VB and windows and your initial expenditure is zero.

C++ is a terrible place to start, in my opinion. VB is ok if you have the software and want to code solely small high level things just for windows. I wouldn't recommend either to start, personally and I've been writing code for 20 years. Windows programmers do not share, and the examples and content are not as constructive to someone learning

In regards to SQL, the best way to learn it is to setup a small database on mysql and use it. SQL is extremely simple and not really a good 'programming' language , per se.

IM me for more Martrae.

by **Diekan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:12 pm

Wow this article actually suprised me.

http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/528F ... A5001AC4EA

Seems VB.NET is being taken pretty serious.

by **Harrison** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:13 pm

Ugh C#

by **Lyion** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:18 pm

The guy who wrote that article had a spot on paragraph:

So which areas are heating up? Recruiters, the backbone of IT employment, are recommending caution when it comes to programming. And while development roles may be well paid, there aren’t necessarily dozens of positions waiting to be filled, a fact reflected in the number of people seeking training in those fields. “Programming seems to be in the least demand, followed by Web roles,” Johnston confirms.

Seeing how most coding positions are being offshored to Sweat shops I would recommend against looking at that as a long range career goal.

Likewise, there are a million 'web' types, and that field is saturated.

This is also a fact right now

At the top end of the pay scale, specialist knowledge in popular business applications such as SAP, Oracle, Siebel and Lotus Notes remains in strong demand, and the pay s cales are being set accordingly. In many of these fields, six-figure salaries remain the norm.

Now, if you can code device drivers in C, and know .NET you'll be able to make good coin right now, but the problem is the lack of jobs for non experienced people.

If you dabble, then you probably aren't very marketable.

by **Diekan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:22 pm

Seeing how most coding positions are being offshored to Sweat shops I would recommend against looking at that as a long range career goal.

I happen to agree with you, but ever *job outlook* site I've been too (Whether DoL) or otherwise are all saying these types of jobs are / are going to be booming.

I just don't get it. Anyone who works in the fields (such as yourself and others) and anyone who's aware of the onslought of outsourcing knows the *truth* So, why are all these agencies / opinion sites / everything else all claiming that we're in / headed for a huge boom in technology?

by **Martrae** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:25 pm

I know...the BLS said there was going to be a 111% increase in programming jobs

by **Lyion** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:26 pm

We are headed for a boom in technology jobs. Unfortunately thats a boom for companies and not for Americans.

My company just closed 17 development shops in the US, and moved all the positions to Russia, India, and New Zealand. This is despite increased contracts and job revenue.

IBM, Microsoft and others are following suit and moving more positions out of the U.S.

The boom will occur when the smaller shops start picking up more work and contracts and the economy can support heavy growth and IT expenditures again. It won't be nearly as huge as the 90s, but it will be better than a few years ago.

by **Diekan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:27 pm

edit-- that makes sense.

by **Tossica** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:30 pm

I suggest PASCAL, Fortran and COBOL.

by **Martrae** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:30 pm

Hopefully, they'll get this tax thing figured out before all jobs go overseas.

by **Lyion** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:32 pm

Tossica wrote:I suggest PASCAL, Fortran and COBOL.

Fortran 77 4 teh win.

Turbo Pascal 4 teh lose.

by **Martrae** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:33 pm

LOL...donkey's years ago I did do some with COBOL.

by **Diekan** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:36 pm

I understand the need for some outsourcing, after all there are more than a few foreign companies who've opened up shop here and created quite a few jobs. So, I don't mind a little give and take, but this is rediculous...

If the cost of living wasn't so fucking high, American's wouldn't have to demand more and more money and maybe companies wouldn't lick their chops at the oppertunity to move overseas (as much).

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