John Bolton smokescreen...

Real Life Events.

Go off topic and I will break you!

Moderator: Dictators in Training

John Bolton smokescreen...

Postby Lyion » Thu May 12, 2005 7:02 am

Good Write up on Bolton from the NY Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/12/opini ... oref=login

A Turning Tide for Bolton

By DAVID BROOKS
Published: May 12, 2005

Usually the bug dies. When a presidential nominee is treated like an ant under a magnifying glass under the noonday sun, when he has the full scrutiny of the media and Congressional investigators focused upon him, he usually gets incinerated.

Related More Columns by David Brooks
Readers
Forum: David Brooks's Columns

But over the past two weeks John Bolton's confirmation prospects have gotten stronger. What happened?

On April 19, Bolton's nomination was knocked off-track by Senators Chris Dodd and Joe Biden at a Foreign Relations Committee hearing. They made powerful presentations against Bolton, which clearly spooked several Republicans. So investigators were dispatched to interview dozens of Bolton's colleagues to get a deeper view of his conduct.

The interview transcripts suggest that Bolton could behave in a "fairly blunt manner" and that some people felt "undue pressure" to conform to his views, as John Wolf, a former assistant secretary of state, testified.

But they also reveal that Bolton has a professional sense of limits. He'd push his views, and push hard. But after he'd had his say, he would almost always bow to the dictates of the organization.

Here's an exchange between investigators and Robert Hutchings, a former chairman of the National Intelligence Council:

Q. After Mr. Bolton blew up, or reacted strongly, as you put it, when he heard that a lot of the Cuba judgments had been modified, did he do anything? What happened? What did he do after that?

HUTCHINGS This issue, it sort of went away. ... That was the end of it.

Q. He didn't seek to go behind your back and change these?

A. Not as far as I know. Those judgments were what they were, and--

Q. He let them stand.

A. Let them stand, yeah.

Here's an exchange with Wil Taft, a former legal adviser to the State Department:

Q. Is there any instance that you can recall where Secretary Bolton did not agree with your advice and sought to undermine it or otherwise ignore it?

TAFT No.

Q. So even though he may not have agreed with it, that's what the lawyer says, so that's what you've got to do?

A. Yes.

Here's an exchange with Colin Powell's chief of staff, Larry Wilkerson, about suggestions that Bolton change the text of a speech he was giving on nonproliferation issues:

WILKERSON There were changes.

Q. But - were those changes accepted?

WILKERSON Absolutely.

I could fill most of this page with exchanges of this sort. And I'm not even quoting from the interviews with Bolton's supporters. These transcripts show a man who was trying to advance a point of view while still generally operating within the bureaucratic structure of the State Department.

The speeches he gave on controversial subjects were generally cleared. Nobody was fired because of him. Nobody's career was damaged.

The other thing the transcripts reveal is that many fights over clearing speeches were not about intelligence - they were about policy. The speech-clearance process was the policy-making process. Often when Bolton was pushing back at his colleagues, he was trying to defend the president's policies from dissenters at State.

For example, Larry Wilkerson believed that America's Cuba policy was "the dumbest policy on the face of the earth," as he told GQ. He disagreed strongly with the idea of imposing sanctions on arms proliferators, as he told Senate investigators.

So when he challenged Bolton, Bolton would bend on most matters, but not on policy.

As Wilkerson himself told the Senate investigators: "There were some problems, on a number of occasions, with Under Secretary Bolton's proposed remarks. I found him to be, at that point, basically receptive to my changes that were culturally sensitive. ... I did not find him to be receptive when we talked about policy changes, fundamental policy changes in his speeches."

That's because Bolton's job was to stand up for the president's policies.

The momentum has shifted on the Bolton nomination because John Bolton turns out to be a more complicated figure than earlier portrayed. It's become clear that earlier tales of him chasing women down hallways are unreliable. It's become clear that while he's abrasive, he is professional. If Senator George Voinovich reads these transcripts before he votes, I'm sure Bolton will be confirmed.

E-mail: dabrooks@nytimes.com
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step.
C. S. Lewis
User avatar
Lyion
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 14376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Narrock » Thu May 12, 2005 11:10 am

John Bolton is a good guy, and here again we see the liberal smear tactics of trying to wipe somebody's name in the dirt because he's a republican.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Postby Diabolik » Thu May 12, 2005 12:06 pm

Mindia wrote:John Bolton is a good guy, and here again we see the liberal smear tactics of trying to wipe somebody's name in the dirt because he's a republican.


OH NOEZ!!!!!1 Republicans have *never* stooped that low! They are pure little angels!
Mindia wrote:Yes Kizzy, and if given the opportunity I would love to SPIT in your face right now, you fucking PIG.
User avatar
Diabolik
NT Bixie
NT Bixie
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 8:18 am
Location: Yo momma house

Postby mofish » Thu May 12, 2005 12:08 pm

Republicans have made smear tactics an artform.
You were right Tikker. We suck.
mofish
NT Traveller
NT Traveller
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:53 pm

Postby Gidan » Thu May 12, 2005 12:12 pm

Its a political tactic. Has nothing to do with what party you represent.
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
User avatar
Gidan
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:01 am

Postby Narrock » Thu May 12, 2005 12:49 pm

LIARS! REPUBLICANS ARE ANGELS!!!!!!!!!!!11 :boots:
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Postby Diabolik » Thu May 12, 2005 1:32 pm

Gidan wrote:Its a political tactic. Has nothing to do with what party you represent.


Just saying both sides are guilty of it. Republicans are much better at it, though.
Mindia wrote:Yes Kizzy, and if given the opportunity I would love to SPIT in your face right now, you fucking PIG.
User avatar
Diabolik
NT Bixie
NT Bixie
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 8:18 am
Location: Yo momma house

Postby The Kizzy » Thu May 12, 2005 2:21 pm

My aunt is Republican, and I didn't know this until I was at her house this weekend, and she had a picture of Bush and his wife. /cringe
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Darcler » Thu May 12, 2005 2:22 pm

like, hanging up in the hallway? Cause that's creepy.
User avatar
Darcler
Saran Wrap Princess
Saran Wrap Princess
 
Posts: 7161
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby The Kizzy » Thu May 12, 2005 2:26 pm

now, like framed in her antique china cabinet along with all her other china. It was creepy.
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Darcler » Thu May 12, 2005 2:28 pm

oh lordy....
User avatar
Darcler
Saran Wrap Princess
Saran Wrap Princess
 
Posts: 7161
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby The Kizzy » Thu May 12, 2005 2:29 pm

:lol:
Zanchief wrote:
Harrison wrote:I'm not dead


Fucker never listens to me. That's it, I'm an atheist.
User avatar
The Kizzy
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 15193
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: In the closet with the ghosts

Postby Arlos » Thu May 12, 2005 2:55 pm

Republican Senator, John Voinovich wrote:It is my opinion that John Bolton is the poster child of what someone in the diplomatic corps should not be.


Did you also know that over 100 former US ambassadors, most of them Republican appointees, have signed a letter in protest of Bolton's appointment? Yeah, none of THEM know what qualities are essential in a good ambassador. And I'm also sure that all of those Republican appointees are somehow part of the vast liberal conspiracy, right?

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Postby Narrock » Thu May 12, 2005 3:42 pm

I have a big framed picture of George and Laura on my wall. My parents have one too, signed by W... it's a big Christmas card they got last December for being supporters of Bush.
“The more I study science the more I believe in God.” -- Albert Einstein
Narrock
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 16679
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: Folsom, CA

Postby Tossica » Thu May 12, 2005 3:45 pm

Mindia wrote:I have a big framed picture of George and Laura on my wall. My parents have one too, signed by W... it's a big Christmas card they got last December for being supporters of Bush.


Disgusting.
User avatar
Tossica
NT Patron
NT Patron
 
Posts: 12490
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm

Postby Martrae » Thu May 12, 2005 3:50 pm

It was only 59 and just because they were appointed by a party that doesn't mean they themselves were. I'm sure there are many dems in the diplomatic corp working for Bush right now.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Arlos » Thu May 12, 2005 3:56 pm

Actually, Martrae, a 2nd group of > 40 of them also signed it. Also, no administration is going to appoint someone who has vastly different values and beliefs to important positions such as Ambassador, as they're the direct representitve of the nation and administration, and as such are specifically appointed by the administration. There's a big difference between "working in the diplomatic corps" and being appointed as Ambassador.

Not to mention, even if it were only 59, and regardless of affiliation, isn't it telling that these people have spoken out against him? Who knows BETTER what qualities are necessary than someone who's done the job?

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Postby Martrae » Thu May 12, 2005 4:05 pm

They're all a bunch of appeasers...err diplomats. Anyone that might rock the boat and jeopardize their round of parties and fundraisers is automatically distrusted. Glorified Used Car Salesmen.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Arlos » Thu May 12, 2005 7:13 pm

Oh gee, the absolute horror that diplomats would be, uh, Diplomatic. What a hideously stupid idea. Whatever were the last 200+ years of presidential administrations THINKING when they appointed their Ambassadors?!?

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Postby Jennay » Thu May 12, 2005 8:10 pm

hmm interesting.
Jennay
NT Traveller
NT Traveller
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:54 am
Location: San Diego

Postby Captain Insano » Thu May 12, 2005 9:48 pm

YOR NAMES MICHEAL BOLTONZ?!11
Tossica: No, you're gay because you suck on cocks.

Darcler:
Get rid of the pictures of the goofy looking white guy. That opens two right there.

Mazzletoffarado: That's me fucktard
Vivalicious wrote:Lots of females don't want you to put your penis in their mouths. Some prefer it in their ass.
User avatar
Captain Insano
Nappy Headed Ho
Nappy Headed Ho
 
Posts: 8368
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:04 pm
Location: SoCal

Postby Martrae » Thu May 12, 2005 10:09 pm

That's my point, Arlos. They are overly diplomatic.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Arlos » Thu May 12, 2005 11:04 pm

What. The. Fuck.

They're DIPLOMATS. Being diplomatic is their JOB.

Gee, you think that pissing off other countries or organizations that you're trying to get to go along with your agenda might be, shall we say, counter-productive?

I know you're not this stupid. What *POSSIBLE* reason would there be to have an un-diplomatic diplomat? The very concept is an oxymoron. So, what you're telling me is that the US tradition of oh, what, 225 years, of actually having diplomatic people in diplomatic posts is a monumental screw-up? (and that's just the US, you want to talk western civ history, we're talking what, thousands of years?) You're saying that we should have been assigning belligerent and abrasive people to try and convince friends and enemies to go along with our agenda all along? Is that what you're trying to tell me? /boggle

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Postby Martrae » Fri May 13, 2005 5:56 am

There's diplomatic in the sense of using tact and understanding to get what you want and then there's diplomatic in the sense of kissing everyone's ass to keep the peace.
Inside each person lives two wolves. One is loyal, kind, respectful, humble and open to the mystery of life. The other is greedy, jealous, hateful, afraid and blind to the wonders of life. They are in battle for your spirit. The one who wins is the one you feed.
User avatar
Martrae
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 11962
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am
Location: Georgia

Postby Arlos » Fri May 13, 2005 9:09 am

Sometimes, both are necessary to get done for the country what needs to get done.

In any case, Bolton has NEITHER quality. So, that qualifies him for arguably our most important Ambassadorial post, how exactly?

-Arlos
User avatar
Arlos
Admin Abuse Squad
Admin Abuse Squad
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:39 pm

Next

Return to Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests

cron