AP: Religious Devotion High in U.S.

[Jimmy Durante]

Sobering survey results that compare the US to some of it's counterparts.

Religious devotion sets the United States apart from some of its closest allies. Americans profess unquestioning belief in God and are far more willing to mix faith and politics than people in other countries, AP-Ipsos polling found.

In Western Europe, where Pope Benedict XVI complains that growing secularism has left churches unfilled on Sundays, people are the least devout among the 10 countries surveyed for The Associated Press by Ipsos.

Only Mexicans come close to Americans in embracing faith, the poll found. But unlike Americans, Mexicans strongly object to clergy lobbying lawmakers, in line with the nation's historical opposition to church influence.

"In the United States, you have an abundance of religions trying to motivate Americans to greater involvement," said Roger Finke, a sociologist at Penn State University. "It's one thing that makes a tremendous difference here."

The polling was conducted in May in the United States, Australia, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico,
South Korea and Spain.

Nearly all U.S. respondents said faith is important to them and only 2 percent said they do not believe in God. Almost 40 percent said religious leaders should try to sway policymakers, notably higher than in other countries.

"Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian policies and religious leaders have an obligation to speak out on public policy, otherwise they're wimps," said David Black, a retiree from Osborne, Pa., who agreed to be interviewed after he was polled.

In contrast, 85 percent of French object to clergy activism — the strongest opposition of any nation surveyed. France has strict curbs on public religious expression and, according to the poll, 19 percent are atheists. South Korea is the only other nation with that high a percentage of nonbelievers.

Australians are generally split over the importance of faith, while two-thirds of South Koreans and Canadians said religion is central to their lives. People in all three countries strongly oppose mixing religion and politics.

Researchers disagree over why people in the United States have such a different religious outlook, said Brent Nelsen, an expert in politics and religion at Furman University in South Carolina.

Some say rejecting religion is a natural response to modernization and consider the United States a strange exception to the trend. Others say Europe is the anomaly; people in modernized countries inevitably return to religion because they yearn for tradition, according to the theory.

Some analysts, like Finke, use a business model. According to his theory, a long history of religious freedom in the United States created a greater supply of worship options than in other countries, and that proliferation inspired wider observance. Some European countries still subsidize churches, in effect regulating or limiting religious options, Finke said.

History also could be a factor.

Many countries other than the United States have been through bloody religious conflict that contributes to their suspicion of giving clergy any say in policy.

A variety of factors contribute to the sentiment about separating religion and politics.

"In Germany, they have a Christian Democratic Party, and they talk about Christian values, but they don't talk about them in quite the same way that we do," Nelsen said. "For them, the Christian part of the Christian values are held privately and it's not that acceptable to bring those out into the open."

In Spain, where the government subsidizes the Catholic Church, and in Germany, which is split between Catholics and Protestants, people are about evenly divided over whether they consider faith important. The results are almost identical in Britain, whose state church, the Church of England, is struggling to fill pews.

Italians are the only European exception in the poll. Eighty percent said religion is significant to them and just over half said they unquestioningly believe in God.

But even in Italy, home to the Catholic Church, resistance to religious engagement in politics is evident. Only three in 10 think the clergy should try to influence government decisions; a lower percentage in Spain, Germany and England said the same.

Within the United States, some of the most pressing policy issues involve complex moral questions — such as gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research — that understandably draw religious leaders into public debate, said John Green, an expert on religion and politics at the University of Akron.

The poll found Republicans are much more likely than Democrats to think clergy should try to influence government decisions — a sign of the challenges ahead for Democrats as they attempt to reach out to more religious voters.

"Rightly or wrongly, Republicans tend to perceive religion as, quote-unquote, `on their side,'" Green said.

The survey did find trends in belief that transcend national boundaries. Women tend to be more devout than men, and older people have stronger faith than younger people.

The Associated Press-Ipsos polls of about 1,000 adults in each of the 10 countries were taken May 12-26. Each has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

[Yamori]

One of the few times I wish the US were more like France.

[Lyion]

The Associated Press-Ipsos polls of about 1,000 adults in each of the 10 countries were taken May 12-26. Each has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

I'd take it with a grain of salt. 1000 people in several countries of tens or hundreds of millions.

[Gidan]

I would have to agree with Lyion, I would hardly call 1000 people a large enough poll to really make this accurate. To even be semi useful the sample sizes would have to be larger and you would need more then a single sample from each country.

[xaoshaen]

Plus, 10 countries? Meh.

[10sun]

I would have to agree with Lyion, I would hardly call 1000 people a large enough poll to really make this accurate. To even be semi useful the sample sizes would have to be larger and you would need more then a single sample from each country.

Ever taken a statistics class? It is safe to assume that they got the numbers down with a small degree of error, no more than 3% margin. Then again, I don't remember a whole lot about my last stats class.

-Adam

[Tikker]

I don't think anyone would dispute the results of the poll tho


I don't think it's much of a shock to most people

[Gidan]

I would have to agree with Lyion, I would hardly call 1000 people a large enough poll to really make this accurate. To even be semi useful the sample sizes would have to be larger and you would need more then a single sample from each country.

Ever taken a statistics class? It is safe to assume that they got the numbers down with a small degree of error, no more than 3% margin. Then again, I don't remember a whole lot about my last stats class.

-Adam

If you really want to get into the statistics of it, we also need to know what their Confidence Levels were.

[xaoshaen]

I don't think anyone would dispute the results of the poll tho


I don't think it's much of a shock to most people

Given the countries they chose to poll, the results are fairly predictable.

[Tikker]

I don't think anyone would dispute the results of the poll tho


I don't think it's much of a shock to most people

Given the countries they chose to poll, the results are fairly predictable.

Put the US up against any other 10 countries you like, and you'll still get the same results, in all likelyhood

[Parv]

After going through Europe the past 3 weeks, I can say that this survey rings pretty true. Lots of people are religious there, but they see a very strict seperation between church and state.

"Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian policies

And that sums up the stupidity of the average American.

[Tuggan]

our nation wasnt founded on and by christian/s policy?

news to me.

[Arlos]

No, it wasn't. Go read the Bill of Rights sometime. As I recall from reading, the Founding Fathers based a lot of the philosophy of our government on works by Locke. This was never intended to be a "Christian" nation, ever. It was intended to be a nation that accepted christians and with important parts played by christians, but it is NOT nor was it ever, a "Christian" Nation. Go read some of Jefferson's letters if you want more proof.

-Arlos

[Tuggan]

ohh.. so it wasnt christians that founded the country?

[Tuggan]

and i might add when the majority of your nation is christian, founded by christians... that makes you a christian nation. i know what the founding fathers had in mind, and what they intended on happening. but hey... didnt work out. i dont like it, im an atheist. i fucking cant stand all the laws based on christian morals, but oh well. majority rules.

[mofish]

majority doesnt, isnt supposed to, rule.

We arent a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.

Many of our nation's founding fathers, many of the most famous framers of the consitution, were in fact, NOT christian.

Im an atheist too Tuggan, keep fightin the good fight man~ Even the christian founding fathers realized the need for a strict church/state separation and a secular, inclusive government, with individual rights guaranteed. Seems modern Americans have mostly forgotten, or never learned, these principals.

[Lyion]

It was founded on Judeo Christian Principles, with the idea of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. Forgive me if I don't see where anyone said anything about it being a Theocracy.

I know your zeal for Jefferson, but he wasn't the only founding father, ya know.

[Parv]

I see the US as having been based on Western values that had been generated since the Roman Empire (and even Ancient Greek) days. Ideas like those of private property, personal freedoms, and the rights of the individual over society, things that are fairly unique to the Western world's culture. Yes Christianity was a strong influence on the founding fathers, but the government they created was not based on it. People like to use the Ten Commandments as proof that the founding fathers used Christianity as the basis - so where in the Constitution are we expected to worship the one God? In truth, except for maybe passages that describe treason (perjury), the Ten Commandments are nowhere to be found in the Constitution. In US Code of Laws, the only ones are no murder, no lying (perjury) and no stealing, which are ideas that you could say originated with the Code of Hammurabi - hardly unique to Christianity.

By definition of the Jewish and Christian faiths, having a government based on those ideals means creating a theocracy.

[Lyion]

The Government isn't based on the religion, Parv, the set of laws are. Thats what the word 'policy' is inferring.

Again, it's where our cultures basis of morality and what we do stems from, not how our Government is run. Which is why things like bigamy are illegal. If you delve deep into the original laws, you can see the influence. The brilliance is we had balance and it was not 'Christian', but moreso based on freedoms.

[Ganzo]

By definition of the Jewish and Christian faiths, having a government based on those ideals means creating a theocracy.

Christian maybe but wrong on Jewish.

[xaoshaen]

I don't think anyone would dispute the results of the poll tho


I don't think it's much of a shock to most people

Given the countries they chose to poll, the results are fairly predictable.

Put the US up against any other 10 countries you like, and you'll still get the same results, in all likelyhood

Right, it's not like there are any theocracies out there.

[Harrison]

I think Jefferson rolls in his grave everytime someone uses his name and thoughts in a personal vendetta against religion and government.

[Yamori]

I really don't see where you guys get that the US was founded on judeochristian principles.

Its clear to me that the US constitution and bill of rights were based on a philosophy - based in part on written works of people such as John Locke - in part as a philosophical reaction to English tyranny, and in part as brilliant foresight by the founding fathers. Not on any religion.

Parv put it right: just where are these darn judeo christian principles: I don't see them anywhere. (except for no stealing/killing/perjury, which if you think these rules originated from christianity, you don't know your history at all. They have been in every major civilization).

The only founding father I've seen saying that the country was founded on christian principles was Adams, but he was a traitor (he made laws that made badmouthing the president a criminal offense), so considering he had no respect for the founding principles, his words are moot.

[mofish]

"We are founded on Judeo-Christian principals" is just a right wing catch phrase. It is meaningless. Let's take the 10 commandments, for instance, the core of so-called 'judeo-christian principals' :

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

Not a law.

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

Not a law.

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

Not a law.

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

Not a law.

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

Not a law.

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

Here's one. Just like every other country, christian or not, on the planet. Hardly invented by christians.

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Not a law.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

Another! Like murder, this is general, and not invented by christians.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Not a law.

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's.'

Not a law.

Great. Two out of Ten. Nice work guys. Like I said. Right-wing catchphrase with no real meaning.

[xaoshaen]

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

Not a law

Was, however, a fairly common law. Still exists in some places, and is considered grounds for dissolving, with prejudice, a legal union.

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

Not a law.

Is, in fact, a law.