More evolutionary lies.

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Postby mofish » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:38 am

tikigod wrote:I have always believed that evolution helps prove the existence of a greater being(s). It also helps to disprove it, but I find that it helps to prove the existence of god(s) is more interesting so my ideas behind this are:

1. If life started from single celled organisms, what scientific purpose would there be to evolving past that, cause they have always seemed to be near perfect at living?

2. Look at what people have accomplished, what’s the point dose it really make that much more fit to produce young.


Ill go ahead and throw in a what the fuck here too.
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:26 am

Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.
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Postby 10sun » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:30 am

What is ass is people are asking forgiveness from God and not those who they have wronged.
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Postby Lyion » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:53 am

Er, yeah. That Golden Rule sure does teach that, doesn't it?
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:08 am

10sun wrote:What is ass is people are asking forgiveness from God and not those who they have wronged.


I blame that on the world's Italian trash! Nothing but a bunch of no-good mafioso scumbags...!
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Postby Azlana » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:17 am

Wrath Child wrote:
Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.

This does not make sense. Are you implying that one would ask Darwin for fogiveness in lieu of the individuals wronged?, because I'm pretty sure that Darwin has been dead for a little while.
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Postby Tossica » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:38 am

Wrath Child wrote:
Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.


Boy, that's pretty fucking stupid.
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Postby Rust » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:57 am

tikigod wrote:I have always believed that evolution helps prove the existence of a greater being(s). It also helps to disprove it, but I find that it helps to prove the existence of god(s) is more interesting so my ideas behind this are:

1. If life started from single celled organisms, what scientific purpose would there be to evolving past that, cause they have always seemed to be near perfect at living?


Well, it took a loooooong time to move from unicellular life forms to multicellular. While the earliest traces of life seem to stretch back to a few hundred million years after the Earth formed, the earliest traces of multicellular life are maybe a billion years old. So for about 3/4 of the time life existed on Earth it was something like cyanobacteria. You can still see stromatolites (big structures created by cyanobacteria) in Western Australia. And the earliest life forms wouldn't even be 'cells' in all probability - cells are far too complex to be the first forms of life. (I have to check my dates on multicellular life, don't quote me.)

But clearly, multicellular life offers advantages, including better survival in variable environments - you can create an 'internal environment' where conditions are more regulated. Early multicellular life appears in such odd forms as the Ediacaran biota, which looked like air mattreses, and were probably flat life forms that hogged seafloor space and photosynthesized. Early life forms were just 'more of the same' -- but then multicellular life forms evolved into a new ecological niche -- predator. In a relatively rapid stretch of time, it seems that some life forms began to eat other life forms. Compared to photosynthesis, eating other living things is a GREAT energy source. So there's a clear advantage in being the new guy on the block who can eat everyone else. You have unlimited food!

Once someone starts eating others, then there's an arms race, and competition, which drives evolution to produce newer, different life forms. Someone invents body armor, or toxins, or spines, or ...

Life forms adapt to their environment. When the environment changes, however, even a well-adapted life form can be in real trouble - pick up a lion (crown predator in Africa) and drop it in the Antarctic, and it won't do very well at all for long. So even 'perfectly adapted' life forms could find out that they were under serious selective pressure to change as their environment changed -- salinity, temperature, or whatever.

2. Look at what people have accomplished, what’s the point dose it really make that much more fit to produce young.


Individuals don't evolve - populations do. Fitness is measured as the success an organism has in terms of passing its genes to the next generation. Any organism that fails to pass its genes on has 0 fitness. There are caveats around this -- dying childless to ensure your brother's 5 children survive is actually a net gain in fitness, for example.

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Postby Tikker » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:21 am

Life forms adapt to their environment. When the environment changes, however, even a well-adapted life form can be in real trouble - pick up a lion (crown predator in Africa) and drop it in the Antarctic, and it won't do very well at all for long. So even 'perfectly adapted' life forms could find out that they were under serious selective pressure to change as their environment changed -- salinity, temperature, or whatever.



The other end of this spectrum is you move a critter to an area where it has no natural predators, and it can jabown everything else there

Check out south america (argentina i THINK) where some fool imported like a dozen canadian beavers

The beavers have since taken over the south of the continent, and are actually jabowning people in some circumstances
kinda neat~

the frogs/toads that got imported to australia are another good example of a critter moved from its evolutionary niche to a place that has no balance for it
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Postby Rust » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:42 am

Tikker wrote:the frogs/toads that got imported to australia are another good example of a critter moved from its evolutionary niche to a place that has no balance for it


Not to mention rabbits in Australia.

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Postby Lyion » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:45 am

or Kudzu.
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:36 pm

Azlana wrote:
Wrath Child wrote:
Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.

This does not make sense. Are you implying that one would ask Darwin for fogiveness in lieu of the individuals wronged?, because I'm pretty sure that Darwin has been dead for a little while.


Did I say that? Anywhere? Ah, no. So why ask such a dumb question when you already know the answer?

If you don't believe in a higher power, then there really is no right or wrong. No good or evil. No sins to ask to be forgiven. Does the wolf ask the deer to forgive him for devouring her fawn? Of course not! That's the beauty of being an atheist! As long as you're the most powerful in any given situation, you're RIGHT!

Oh my! But you might hurt someone's widdle feelings, you say. SO FUCKING WHAT! Who cares if you do? Not a true atheist. Why would you be the least bit concerned about some weakling's feelings? Why??? A true atheist is unencumbered by guilt of any kind. A real bully's bully! You shouldn't care anymore for those beneath you than you do for the worms you run over when you drive in a rainstorm or the bugs you step on when you mow the lawn.

Oh wait! I bet you grew up with some religious influence, didn't you? That's your excuse, right? That's how you know what's right or wrong? But you know religion is complete hogwash, now don't you? So why in the world would you continue to base anything off of something that is completely false.

That's the true beauty of being an atheist! You can do ANYTHING you can get away with and there's no need to worry about consequences. No lightning bolts from the heavens to fry your ass, or devils in hell waiting to skewer you with his pitchfork.

You might have noticed by now that there aren't any soup kitchens run by atheist groups. Or food pantries. Not even homeless shelters! And why? Because atheists don't give a flying fuck about the homeless or poor! And why should they? The homeless in the eyes of an atheist are nothing but human debris that needs to be gotten rid of! It's not like human beings are an endangered species, now is it? The sheer volume of our population alone is destroying the planet. But even if we were, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference because THEY ARE THE WEAK AND THE WEAK MUST PERISH!

You see, atheists are nothing but cold, empty shells of human beings. But if you have an ounce of compassion in you or a tingle of remorse, then you're not really an atheist. Because a part of you desperately clings to a closeted belief in a higher power just in case it turns out there is indeed a heaven and hell.

So which are you? Some bible thumper or the next step in evolution?
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Postby Tuggan » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:39 pm

thats the dumbest shit ive ever seen posted. youre a fucking idiot.
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:39 pm

Tossica wrote:
Wrath Child wrote:
Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.


Boy, that's pretty fucking stupid.


Yes, your rationalizations usually are...
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:44 pm

Tuggan wrote:thats the dumbest shit ive ever seen posted. youre a fucking idiot.


So tell us, how do you know what's right and what's wrong? Be a big boy for once and actually answer a question someone asks you.
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Postby Tuggan » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:47 pm

I was raised Catholic, if thats what youre getting at.

But youre trying to say one cannot differentiate between right and wrong without religion, which is bullshit. Even if there were no religions, im sure the basics would still be around. No killing, No stealing etc...
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Postby mofish » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:48 pm

Tuggan wrote:thats the dumbest shit ive ever seen posted. youre a fucking idiot.
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:56 pm

Tuggan wrote:I was raised Catholic, if thats what youre getting at.

But youre trying to say one cannot differentiate between right and wrong without religion, which is bullshit. Even if there were no religions, im sure the basics would still be around. No killing, No stealing etc...


I see. So you clearly fall into this category:"Oh wait! I bet you grew up with some religious influence, didn't you? That's your excuse, right? That's how you know what's right or wrong? But you know religion is complete hogwash, now don't you? So why in the world would you continue to base anything off of something that is completely false."

From an atheist point of view, exactly what is wrong with taking what you can or killing the weak amongst you? It's how we evolved into what we are today, so what's the problem with continuing along a course that's been laid out for millions of years?
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Postby mofish » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:57 pm

Atheists obviously dont know right from wrong. Its impossible to know these things without the ethereal loving embrace of an invisible god no one has ever heard, seen, spoken to, felt, or smelled. Of course.

We are all serial killers, liars, and rapists.

Dumbass.
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:00 pm

mofish wrote:Atheists obviously dont know right from wrong. Its impossible to know these things without the ethereal loving embrace of an invisible god no one has ever heard, seen, spoken to, felt, or smelled. Of course.

We are all serial killers, liars, and rapists.

Dumbass.


Again, what do you base your sense of right and wrong off of? Tuggan bases his off the Bible. What about you?
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Postby Tuggan » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:01 pm

there was law well before the bible dipshit.
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Postby Yamori » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:01 pm

If you don't believe in a higher power, then there really is no right or wrong. No good or evil. No sins to ask to be forgiven. Does the wolf ask the deer to forgive him for devouring her fawn? Of course not! That's the beauty of being an atheist! As long as you're the most powerful in any given situation, you're RIGHT!


Uh, no.

I'm an atheist and I have a very strict sense of morality.

Whats good is what furthers human life, whats evil is that which hinders it. Because life is the absolute pre-requisite to having any other values at all, it becomes the ultimate value.

Atheism has no bearing on morality. It is morally neutral. From thinking there is no god, you can either come to the conclusion that human life is truly the most unique and precious thing in existence -- or you could also conclude that nothing means anything and you should do whatever you want. Neither of these are the sole conclusion that must be made from godlessness.
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Postby Lyion » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:05 pm

Yamori wrote:
If you don't believe in a higher power, then there really is no right or wrong. No good or evil. No sins to ask to be forgiven. Does the wolf ask the deer to forgive him for devouring her fawn? Of course not! That's the beauty of being an atheist! As long as you're the most powerful in any given situation, you're RIGHT!


Uh, no.

I'm an atheist and I have a very strict sense of morality.

.


Here's the dictionary definition of morality:

The relation of conformity or nonconformity to the moral
standard or rule


Interesting. Why do you have a strict sense of morality?
From where does your Morality stem?

I don't necessarily agree with wrath, but he brings some interesting points.
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Postby Gidan » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:06 pm

Wrath Child wrote:
Azlana wrote:
Wrath Child wrote:
Me wrote:Like many "darwinists", Tossica came to the gutwrenching realization that he was a shitty human being. He had spent most of his adult life treating his fellow human beings like shit and instead of dealing with all the shitty things he had done to other people and apologizing, he figured he would turn his life over to darwinism and the Mommy Nature would forgive him and make all the bad things go away. Once he felt he was straight in evolution's eye, it doesn't matter what damage he may have caused. Besides, if he ever fucks up and shits on anyone else, he can always blame it on the survival of the fitest and everything is cool again.

Turning your life over to the darwinism means never having to say you're sorry! It's a win for a lowlife for sure. I can see the appeal.

This does not make sense. Are you implying that one would ask Darwin for fogiveness in lieu of the individuals wronged?, because I'm pretty sure that Darwin has been dead for a little while.


Did I say that? Anywhere? Ah, no. So why ask such a dumb question when you already know the answer?

If you don't believe in a higher power, then there really is no right or wrong. No good or evil. No sins to ask to be forgiven. Does the wolf ask the deer to forgive him for devouring her fawn? Of course not! That's the beauty of being an atheist! As long as you're the most powerful in any given situation, you're RIGHT!

Oh my! But you might hurt someone's widdle feelings, you say. SO FUCKING WHAT! Who cares if you do? Not a true atheist. Why would you be the least bit concerned about some weakling's feelings? Why??? A true atheist is unencumbered by guilt of any kind. A real bully's bully! You shouldn't care anymore for those beneath you than you do for the worms you run over when you drive in a rainstorm or the bugs you step on when you mow the lawn.

Oh wait! I bet you grew up with some religious influence, didn't you? That's your excuse, right? That's how you know what's right or wrong? But you know religion is complete hogwash, now don't you? So why in the world would you continue to base anything off of something that is completely false.

That's the true beauty of being an atheist! You can do ANYTHING you can get away with and there's no need to worry about consequences. No lightning bolts from the heavens to fry your ass, or devils in hell waiting to skewer you with his pitchfork.

You might have noticed by now that there aren't any soup kitchens run by atheist groups. Or food pantries. Not even homeless shelters! And why? Because atheists don't give a flying fuck about the homeless or poor! And why should they? The homeless in the eyes of an atheist are nothing but human debris that needs to be gotten rid of! It's not like human beings are an endangered species, now is it? The sheer volume of our population alone is destroying the planet. But even if we were, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference because THEY ARE THE WEAK AND THE WEAK MUST PERISH!

You see, atheists are nothing but cold, empty shells of human beings. But if you have an ounce of compassion in you or a tingle of remorse, then you're not really an atheist. Because a part of you desperately clings to a closeted belief in a higher power just in case it turns out there is indeed a heaven and hell.

So which are you? Some bible thumper or the next step in evolution?


So you believe that the only people who can have morals are people who believe in a God or Gods?

If you don’t believe in God/Gods you don’t believe in the rule of law, you care for nothing other then yourself. If that were the case then an Atheist wouldn't be an Atheist at all, they would believe that they were God.

Next, there is nothing that says religion and evolution can not coexist.

So what religion is it that you follow that tells you to look down on those who do not follow it? What religion has caused you this much hatred of the people who do not follow your beliefs? How are you better then the people who you are claiming to be speaking about in this little rant?
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Postby Wrath Child » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:10 pm

Tuggan wrote:there was law well before the bible dipshit.


You don't say! So I'm guessing anything that becomes legal under the law is OK with you then? That means slavery was right, because it was the law! How about that! I won't bother to mention what's going on in your future homeland, North Korea since it's all fine and dandy with you what "dear leader" is doing to his people. Because it's the LAW! I like that! It's the law! How convenient.

Maybe we could change the law and kill off all females past the ripe old age of 25. Gah, all those wrinkles are just hideous to have to look at! We just need to make it the law and it's all good with Tuggan!
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