sweet jebus, new hunter talents

[Tikker]

Really dig the projected new changes

[togusa]

I'm definately going to try out the full survival tree to see how Wyvern Sting works out, can't wait.

[Tikker]

For me, the big change was moving spirit bond from 31 pts, to 21

i'm definately dropping trueshot and grabbing that again (i used to be 31/20/0, now 20/31/0)

i think i'll end up 21/30/0, but i'll play with the survival shit on test one of these days

[Gidan]

With so many hunters in my guild, based on the new talen tree I will probably end up being 10/10/31 and fill a role of puller. I would love to compare the DPS differences between the mark and surv tree's.

[Tikker]

it'll be interesting


I don't see how you'll really survive MC without hawkeye

[Gidan]

Good point, will be interesting.

[Tikker]

Cay also confirmed that the new pet customization will be in 1.7 as well



now the guessing game is when 1.7 will land

[Treehorn]

The new talen trees are neat, I think they're an improvement over all, certainly. I'm really looking forward to 1.7, but what really interests me most is seeing how what they're doing to pets is going to work out, and which, if any, of the annoying hunter bugs they might actually be fixing finally. Waiting for the patch notes with bated breath.

I really hope they address the "dead zone" though. That shit is beyond ridiculous, and what made me finally table my first, and most favorite, character.
Sure would like to have a reason to dig him back out of the mothballs.

[Tacks]

Just an added reason to hate Hunters even more. They should give hunters a talent point that adds a graphic display of tail tucked between legs when they run away kiting you.

[Donnel]

Link? I'm not a WoW player but my wife plays a hunter. Can you give me something so I can send it to her?

[Tacks]

It's on the WoW main page.

[Donnel]

Oh, well seeing as how I don't play and have never been there... =P

[Treehorn]

hehe says the Rogue.

Besides, I wasn't talking about PvP. I don't go there, never have, don't see myself ever doing, frankly. I'm sure it's great, but I've never really tried it, and not sure it'd be my cuppa'.

I wasn't talking about the magical 4-yard radius around hunters, just outside of melee weapon's reach, and just inside of ranged weapon's reach, where druids, mages, etc. might stand fearless of any form of reprisal (pets lol), while they nuke a hunter's shit with impunity. I mean, because that's completely fair.

What I was referring to was needing 8 whole fucking yards to use my main source of DPS, (you know, the thing that, for the most part, makes me even remotely worth occupying a slot in a raid?), and constantly being stuck in spaces 6 or 7 yards wide to work with.

All I'm saying is it needs looking at. Minimum ranged attack radius should begin where max reach of melee attacks ends for all ranged weapons (guns, bows, and thrown), for any class using them, not for hunters alone. Where is the range restirction on wands again? Oh, right.

In addition, they should either allow ranged weapons to be useable point-blank, but with like a 50%-70% penalty to damage (basically making it on par with our shitty melee), or leave ranged attacks stricly at the edge of melee range and just lower the distance that Concussive and Scatter shots (or just scatter at least, since it's talent-bought, short duration, low damage, any other damage breaks it, etc.) are useable. I'd be mighty happy with that, but I could totally live with minimum ranged attack range being pulled in by 4 yards, to 4 yards.

For PvE, my preferred style of play, Disengaging or Feigning off for a sec (usually only if Dis fails, and I'm in too much of a pinch to wait on it to refresh), assuming they're not resisted, are fine as they are. They get tossed out the window completely for PvP'ers though. Might as well throw them a (small) bone (although, that bone may well be addressed handily by buying the new pet stun talent).

Meh, either way, dead zone needs addressing.

[Tae-Bo]

dead zone in pvp isn't a problem - scatter shot/fd/freeze trap (yes, you can leave combat while rooted/dotted/frost novaed)

once you get quick with placing trap in the small window that you have, you're golden (i had FD and freeze trap bound to scroll forward and back on my mouse)

[Treehorn]

dead zone in pvp isn't a problem - scatter shot/fd/freeze trap (yes, you can leave combat while rooted/dotted/frost novaed)

once you get quick with placing trap in the small window that you have, you're golden (i had FD and freeze trap bound to scroll forward and back on my mouse)

It's good that you're skilled enough to make do given the poorly designed constraints you're faced with as a pvp hunter.

Dead zone still shouldn't exist though.

[xaoshaen]

It's good that you're skilled enough to make do given the poorly designed constraints you're faced with as a pvp hunter.

Dead zone still shouldn't exist though.

The dead zone needs to exist. It's a price you pay for superior ranged firepower.

[Tacks]

Hunters: WoW's version of the EQ Druid. The class everyone hates because they're so gimp.

[Treehorn]

Hunter's been mothballed at 60 since early May, so I forget exactly- Scatter useable point-blank? Seems to me there was a minimum distance to use it at, may have been ~4 yards, so works within the dead zone? Stupid patch days...


Anyway, I don't deny for a minute that there should be a certain point close to your person where ranged attacks begin to 1) lose their effectiveness or 2) stop working completely (as they do now). If you get within 4-5 yards of me, (ie. where our melee radii now intersect, so now you can smack me, and I am free to smack you in return) I can't effectively aim a bow at you, since you're now close enough to beat me on me physically, knock my weapon aside, etc. while I attempt draw a bead on you. Makes sense. That's not the dead zone though.

I mean, if I could just run up and blast things point-blank in the face with a blunderbuss packed full of seaforium powder and depleted arcanite shot for full damage, that would be completely unfair. At least mages, etc. have, by and large, cast times, or channeling, associated with their most of their abilities (whereas, except for aimed shot, or two channeled skills, all our abilities are instants), and are somewhat interruptible (scatter shot, pet and master's melee hits, etc.). That is, until they park you, and then situate themselves right in your blind spot. The blind spot is the dead zone.

No, my bone of contention is merely that 8 yards away being the minimum range for using ranged attacks is about 3-4 yards too far, and should be pulled back in to the point where melee radius terminates (4-5 yards from your person). As it stands, there is a complete blind spot to stand in, inside of ranged range yet outside of melee reach, free of worry of reprisal (barring a single ability on a, what, 30 second refresh, that costs 21 talents into Marksmanship to purchase? or a pet gnawing on you... assuming the pet's not already sheep'ed, sleep'ed, feared, otherwise dealt with, or, more often, outright ignored), until your root, or whatever, wears off.

If Scatter Shot were an ability available to all hunters, and not a 21-point talent buy, that'd be one thing. As it stands now, you have to decide whether or not you can live without this talent, and allocate accordingly, in order to cope with a poor design decision (or oversight. no way of knowing which).

That needs addressing.

Personally, simplest solution is eliminating the blind spot by either extending out melee reach (not the best option- asking to just extend the reach of staves, polearms, and 2-handers would be neat, but would put rogues at a disadvantage toe-to-toe), or bring minimum range for ranged attacks in to the distance where melee reach terminates (4-5 yards). This would also solve PvE issues involving working in crowded spaces where there just isn't 8 yards to work with (my real gripe, since I don't PvP personally).

Best to just leave Scatter where it is, as a talent-bought ability. Beast spec'ed hunters can buy their own version of the ability for their pets once Intimidation goes live with 1.7. Survivalists (still have to supress a snicker mentioning survivalists... old habits) will just have to work out for themselves whether they can afford to get either one, and which they want.

[xaoshaen]

You've essentially argued that the dead zone should be removed because 'it sucks'. I wouldn't dispute your premise, but I don't agree that it's grounds for removal, particularly in the PvE game. Removing Invisibility from the mage spell lineup was largely resisted on the same premise, but that didn't mean that the nerf should have been reversed. Hunter's aren't exactly underpowered at the moment, so I'm not sure that across-the-board improvements are warrented. The biggest fix the class needed was differentiation, which the revamped talent trees and pet changes should help with.

[Tacks]

your arguement is ridiculous

[Treehorn]

You've essentially argued that the dead zone should be removed because 'it sucks'. I wouldn't dispute your premise, but I don't agree that it's grounds for removal, particularly in the PvE game. Removing Invisibility from the mage spell lineup was largely resisted on the same premise, but that didn't mean that the nerf should have been reversed. Hunter's aren't exactly underpowered at the moment, so I'm not sure that across-the-board improvements are warrented. The biggest fix the class needed was differentiation, which the revamped talent trees and pet changes should help with.

I don't see how it would make any difference to the PvE game at all other than helping to eliminate a major annoyance. Mobs don't take advantage of dead zones. They either stand back and cast, where you can hit them, or run up and whack you, where you can whack them back.
Where is the harm exactly?

I'm interested to hear why Invis was removed, actually. Never played beta, which is when this was removed, right? Assuming it had something to do with things like Mages popping out of nowhere and dropping PoM blast waves and things on people's heads? I can see where that could be a PvP problem, but other than maybe sneaking by a little bit of content here and there, not sure where the harm was for PvE.

your arguement is ridiculous

Well, that was a most illuminating post, Taxx. I have seen the error or my ways. Thank you.

[xaoshaen]

I don't see how it would make any difference to the PvE game at all other than helping to eliminate a major annoyance. Mobs don't take advantage of dead zones. They either stand back and cast, where you can hit them, or run up and whack you, where you can whack them back.
Where is the harm exactly?

As it it stands, the dead zone requires the hunter to excercise some control over the situation. A reduction in the radius of a minimum range is inherently an increase in power. It allows the possibility of an extra shot on a closing opponent, which can definitely be advantageous.

I'm interested to hear why Invis was removed, actually. Never played beta, which is when this was removed, right? Assuming it had something to do with things like Mages popping out of nowhere and dropping PoM blast waves and things on people's heads? I can see where that could be a PvP problem, but other than maybe sneaking by a little bit of content here and there, not sure where the harm was for PvE.

Well, you wouldn't burn PoM on an instant spell like Blast Wave, but the combo of PoM, Pyroblast, Blast Wave, Fire Blast, and Cone of Cold was pretty devastating. There were quite a few tricks you could pull with invis and invis potions to bypass content as well.

[Kramer]

just saw the new talent tree, badass, i feel much more interested in playing a hunter past 20 now, i think i liked a 30/21/0 makeup, cause it seems like if your pet can't hold up in combat with aggro and damamge then you sure can't rely on your weapon

[Treehorn]

I wish they would quit fucking with the originally proposed tree, unless they are going to be making meaningful changes. There are still so-o many utterly pointless talents in each tree, why they feel compelled to destroy/replace two of the tastiest talents in two trees, yet the worthless ones stay worthless, is beyond me. Marksmanship tree is still ripe for the picking of talents that are an utter waste of space.

I don't think anyone even looked at the Marks tree. They probably just noticed that it's what everyone already takes, and called it good instead of realizing this was only because it was the only viable tree by comparison.


Hurray for a new, and completely gutted, Spirit Bond! Way to fix what ain't broke.
Readiness, we hardly knew ye.

Somehow, I don't think 1.7 is going to be saving me after all.

[Thon]

at least lacerate is gone