Evolution gets slammed

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Evolution gets slammed

Postby Narrock » Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:28 pm

Kansas moves to stem role of evolution in teaching By Carey Gillam
1 hour, 39 minutes ago



OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (Reuters) - After months of debate over science and religion, the Kansas Board of Education has tentatively approved new state science standards that weaken the role evolution plays in teaching about the origin of life.


The 10-member board must still take a final vote, expected in either September or October, but a 6-4 vote on Tuesday that approved a draft of the standards essentially cemented a victory for conservative Christian board members who say evolution is largely unproven and can undermine religious teachings about the origins of life on earth.

"We think this is a great development ... for the academic freedom of students," said John West, senior fellow of the Discovery Institute, which supports intelligent design theory.

Intelligent design proposes that some features of the natural world are best explained as products of a considered intent as opposed to a process of natural selection.

The board is sending its drafted standards to a Denver-based education consultant before a final vote, planned for either September or October.

If they win final approval, Kansas will join Minnesota, Ohio and New Mexico, all of which have adopted critical analysis of evolution in the last four years.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints and eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum.

Critics say the moves are part of a continuing national effort by conservative Christians to push their secular views into the public education process.

"This is neo-creationism, trying to avoid the legal morass of trying to teach creationism overtly and slip it in through the backdoor," said Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education.

Kansas itself has been grappling with the issue for years, garnering worldwide attention in 1999 when the state school board voted to de-emphasize evolution in science classes.

That was reversed in 2001 with new members elected to the school board. But conservatives again gained the majority in elections in 2004, leading to the newest attacks on evolution.

The science standards the board is revising act as guidelines for teachers about how and what to teach students.

In May, the board of education sponsored a courtroom-style debate over evolution that saw lawyers for each side cross-examining "witnesses" and taking up issues such as the age of the earth, fossil records and beliefs that humans and are too intricately designed to not have a creator.

The hearings came 80 years after evolution was the subject of the famous "Scopes" trial in Tennessee in which teacher John Thomas Scopes was accused of violating a ban against teaching evolution.


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Postby KILL » Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:47 pm

awesome

maybe we can resume burning witches soon too
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Postby Narrock » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:03 pm

witches. lol
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Postby Donnel » Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:06 pm

Each witch more witcher then the last.
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Postby brinstar » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:11 pm

my neighbor state to the south is full of retards

now i kinda know how canada must feel
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Postby Captain Insano » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:15 pm

those silly christians are at it again! :lol:
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Postby mofish » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:20 pm

Kansas owns one of the dumbest populations in the US. And thats saying something, with the entire South in the running.
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Postby araby » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:35 pm

My problem with this subject is that I am really sick of hearing about what they want taught in schools, when what they're teaching now isn't up to par.
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Postby Eziekial » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:05 pm

That was a fantastic post Ash, I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Postby Gidan » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:20 pm

Who would have thought that the religious concervative board would take science out of science classes.

All this is, is a way for tehm to have a way to push creation on the students.
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Postby Captain Insano » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:59 am

I agree with not teaching evolution and lots of other unchristianlike subjects....

It's not really a big deal if our kids are dumb as shit as long as they know jesus, because EVERYONE knows that GOD will provide everything they need so why even try to learn anything useful!
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Postby mofish » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:05 am

in'sh allah
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Postby Themosticles » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:54 am

Gidan wrote:Who would have thought that the religious concervative board would take science out of science classes.

All this is, is a way for tehm to have a way to push creation on the students.


You are over dramatizing this.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints and eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum.

There is the crux of the decision. Letting students know that there is more than just one school of thought on how we came to be. No where does it say that those must be taught, merely recognized as valid beliefs that not everyone shares. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Not everyone believes in the theory of Evolution(capital E) and so it might do some good for a teacher to say exactly that then allow their pupils to come to their own conclusions.

You and I both know that young students eat up wholly what their teachers tell them. When you read books in class teachers ASK for student opinion first w/o giving theirs. If a teacher tells the class what he/she thinks before allowing students to form their own opinions then a majority of those students will simply believe the teacher's words as thier truth w/o investigating and then they've lost out on something important.

Again, this is NOT about religion.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:22 am

Themosticles wrote:Again, this is NOT about religion.


Themo, if you truly believe that you are kidding yourself.

You may be able to justify this in a non-religious context, but the reasoning is 100% about religion.

Although I do agree that people shouldn’t be taught that evolution is infallible, but it never was to me. If you want to truly educate people you should tell your students of the flaws as much as the truths of evolution. But this isn’t about truth, it’s about pushing their agenda.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:33 am

Naturedidit wrongly stated as fact is just as silly as goddidit stated as fact.

Themo wrote:it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


Discussion and debate are good, and even though secularity and naturalsim are and should be prevalent in science, high school talks do nothing but promote learning, and are hardly damaging, except to those with an agenda.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:19 am

lyion wrote:Naturedidit wrongly stated as fact is just as silly as goddidit stated as fact.

Themo wrote:it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


Discussion and debate are good, and even though secularity and naturalsim are and should be prevalent in science, high school talks do nothing but promote learning, and are hardly damaging, except to those with an agenda.


I agree, but this isn't to promote discourse. It's to promote religion as a viable alternative.

The motives could not be clearer, Lyion. Do you deny it?
Last edited by Zanchief on Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:42 am

I'm sure many have a biased religious agendas, just as many have a biased anti religion agenda.

Stating evolution has gaping holes is not promoting religion or proselytizing. Neither are open discussions and an attempt to learn. It's not like anyones trying to change the scientific method, or anything.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:59 am

lyion wrote:I'm sure many have a biased religious agendas, just as many have a biased anti religion agenda.

Stating evolution has gaping holes is not promoting religion or proselytizing. Neither are open discussions and an attempt to learn. It's not like anyones trying to change the scientific method, or anything.


Question avoided 100%.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:26 pm

What, that some have a biased agenda? I agreed with that, so I didn't see any avoidance.

We have laws for separation of church and state, which is why groups have to jump through heavy hoops to do any type of discourse that has any semblance of Christianity.

Kansas will join Minnesota, Ohio and New Mexico, all of which have adopted critical analysis of evolution in the last four years.

The new science standards would not eliminate the teaching of evolution entirely, nor would they require that religious views, also known as creationism, be taught, but it would encourage teachers to discuss various viewpoints


That is hardly anything huge since it certainly isn't pushing evangelicism in the schools, merely allowing for high schools to discuss people's beliefs in high school science class, be it naturedidit or godidit.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:34 pm

When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:09 pm

Zanchief wrote:When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.


I think you are confusing what the fundamentalists want and what is actually being implemented, Zan.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:16 pm

lyion wrote:
Zanchief wrote:When I think of progressive teachings, I think of Kansas. My point is, it's opening up those schools to basically tell kids evolution is wrong and present various (creationism) other alternatives.

I don't even see the need to legislate this, but the reason Kansas is dong this is because they want to teach there kids hocus-pocus alternatives to evolution.


I think you are confusing what the fundamentalists want and what is actually being implemented, Zan.


"eliminate core evolution theory as required curriculum" and "various viewpoints " are about as vague as weapons of mass destruction.

Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.
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Postby Lyion » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:24 pm

Possibly, but it won't happen.
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Postby Themosticles » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:28 pm

Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.


I don't think it will come to this, as I stated before, but this of course is where we disagree. Which is fine.
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Postby Zanchief » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:30 pm

Themosticles wrote:
Within those guidelines they could discredit evolution and promote creationism. And that's why they are doing it.


I don't think it will come to this, as I stated before, but this of course is where we disagree. Which is fine.


Unfair generalization maybe, but I don't see Kansas doing this to make their curriculum more progressive.
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