Tire of high gas prices?

[Phlegm]

from Associated Press:

CORTE MADERA, Calif. (AP) -- Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.

It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret - a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.

Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.

Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during braking and coasting. The extra batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into a wall outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb - all for about a quarter.

He's part of a small but growing movement. "Plug-in" hybrids aren't yet cost-efficient, but some of the dozen known experimental models have gotten up to 250 mpg.

They have support not only from environmentalists but also from conservative foreign policy hawks who insist Americans fuel terrorism through their gas guzzling.

And while the technology has existed for three decades, automakers are beginning to take notice, too.

So far, DaimlerChrysler AG is the only company that has committed to building its own plug-in hybrids, quietly pledging to make up to 40 vans for U.S. companies. But Toyota Motor Corp. officials who initially frowned on people altering their cars now say they may be able to learn from them.

"They're like the hot rodders of yesterday who did everything to soup up their cars. It was all about horsepower and bling-bling, lots of chrome and accessories," said Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman. "Maybe the hot rodders of tomorrow are the people who want to get in there and see what they can do about increasing fuel economy."

The extra batteries let Gremban drive for 20 miles with a 50-50 mix of gas and electricity. Even after the car runs out of power from the batteries and switches to the standard hybrid mode, it gets the typical Prius fuel efficiency of around 45 mpg. As long as Gremban doesn't drive too far in a day, he says, he gets 80 mpg.

"The value of plug-in hybrids is they can dramatically reduce gasoline usage for the first few miles every day," Gremban said. "The average for people's usage of a car is somewhere around 30 to 40 miles per day. During that kind of driving, the plug-in hybrid can make a dramatic difference."

Backers of plug-in hybrids acknowledge that the electricity to boost their cars generally comes from fossil fuels that create greenhouse gases, but they say that process still produces far less pollution than oil. They also note that electricity could be generated cleanly from solar power.

Gremban rigged his car to promote the nonprofit CalCars Initiative, a San Francisco Bay area-based volunteer effort that argues automakers could mass produce plug-in hybrids at a reasonable price.

But Toyota and other car companies say they are worried about the cost, convenience and safety of plug-in hybrids - and note that consumers haven't embraced all-electric cars because of the inconvenience of recharging them like giant cell phones.

Automakers have spent millions of dollars telling motorists that hybrids don't need to be plugged in, and don't want to confuse the message.

Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are starting to get the backing of prominent hawks like former CIA director James Woolsey and Frank Gaffney, President Reagan's undersecretary of defense. They have joined Set America Free, a group that wants the government to spend $12 billion over four years on plug-in hybrids, alternative fuels and other measures to reduce foreign oil dependence.

Gaffney, who heads the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy, said Americans would embrace plug-ins if they understood arguments from him and others who say gasoline contributes to oil-rich Middle Eastern governments that support terrorism.

"The more we are consuming oil that either comes from places that are bent on our destruction or helping those who are ... the more we are enabling those who are trying to kill us," Gaffney said.

DaimlerChrysler spokesman Nick Cappa said plug-in hybrids are ideal for companies with fleets of vehicles that can be recharged at a central location at night. He declined to name the companies buying the vehicles and said he did not know the vehicles' mileage or cost, or when they would be available.

Others are modifying hybrids, too.

Monrovia-based Energy CS has converted two Priuses to get up to 230 mpg by using powerful lithium ion batteries. It is forming a new company, EDrive Systems, that will convert hybrids to plug-ins for about $12,000 starting next year, company vice president Greg Hanssen said.

University of California, Davis engineering professor Andy Frank built a plug-in hybrid from the ground up in 1972 and has since built seven others, one of which gets up to 250 mpg. They were converted from non-hybrids, including a Ford Taurus and Chevrolet Suburban.

Frank has spent $150,000 to $250,000 in research costs on each car, but believes automakers could mass-produce them by adding just $6,000 to each vehicle's price tag.

Instead, Frank said, automakers promise hydrogen-powered vehicles hailed by President Bush and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, even though hydrogen's backers acknowledge the cars won't be widely available for years and would require a vast infrastructure of new fueling stations.

"They'd rather work on something that won't be in their lifetime, and that's this hydrogen economy stuff," Frank said. "They pick this kind of target to get the public off their back, essentially."

[Lyion]

Interesting.

Maybe a new brand of car will have better luck than Tucker had in the 50s.

[Arlos]

I still feel that Biodiesel is truly a wave of the future, and needs to be strongly looked into. Legalize hemp and tons and tons of acres of land that normally would require significant work to produce anything useful can be converted to growing hemp, which will simultaneously: 1) help our oil dependency by letting potentially all of the country's diesel engines run on plant-grown oils, 2) vastly reduce the need for logging our remaining forests because hemp fiber (which is a seperate part of the plant from the oil seeds) makes great paper, and 3) let the stalks and such can be used as livestock food, reducing costs for livestock outfits.

-Arlos

[Lueyen]

3) let the stalks and such can be used as livestock food, reducing costs for livestock outfits.

This last one kinda made me curious as to how hemp stalk raised livestock would taste.

[Captain Insano]

I still feel that Biodiesel is truly a wave of the future, and needs to be strongly looked into. Legalize hemp and tons and tons of acres of land that normally would require significant work to produce anything useful can be converted to growing hemp, which will simultaneously: 1) help our oil dependency by letting potentially all of the country's diesel engines run on plant-grown oils, 2) vastly reduce the need for logging our remaining forests because hemp fiber (which is a seperate part of the plant from the oil seeds) makes great paper, and 3) let the stalks and such can be used as livestock food, reducing costs for livestock outfits.

-Arlos

I've always found this line of thinking very interesting too. Why not do this? or hell a combination of all three (biodiesel, hydrogen and electric).

I am really surprised more private companies haven't found ways to make cost effective mod's to existing cars using one of the three above mentioned technologies...

I mean if you created a simple upgrade to a standard car that was cost effective and used hemp instead of oil you could be the next J.D Rockefeller.

[Captain Insano]

hehe... I just thought about a project I did in GATE during 4th grade... I designed a modification package to run a car on cooled liquid hydrogen. Some of my dad's engineer friends from Boeing helped me out. Thinking back on my design it was pretty sound except that any really bad wreck would have probably resulted in one fucking massive explosion.

I think that if I were to be part of the corporate wage slave class I would love to work in this type of field.

[mofish]

Yes, biodiesel is the future. The reasons why biodiesel wins :

1. Stop giving money to OPEC
2. Revitalize rural America and the American farmer
3. New, clean burning, efficient diesel engines made by VW, other companies now following suit. 50+ mpg in VWs smaller cars
4. Could even help get Africa, and other poor nations, off their feet once and for all. Everyone could make fuel to sell or use then, not just the few countries who happened to get lucky enough to have oil reserves within their borders.
5. Doesnt require massive new technology, like hydrogen will or other alternates.
6. Ethanol sucks, is not efficient, and isnt viable. Biodiesel >>> Ethanol

I swear, potheads win. Hemp can make every material that petroleum is used to make, including plastics, cheaper and cleaner. Hemp can fuel our engines. And acre of hemp makes as much paper as close to 5 acres of trees. Cannibis has many, many medical uses, the newest Ive seen was a report on it helping bowel dieases like Crohn's disease.

And yes, hybrid diesel would win even more. Trains have used diesel-electric engines for years, not a huge leap to stick em into cars.

HEMP WINS!

[Gidan]

I still feel that Biodiesel is truly a wave of the future, and needs to be strongly looked into. Legalize hemp and tons and tons of acres of land that normally would require significant work to produce anything useful can be converted to growing hemp, which will simultaneously: 1) help our oil dependency by letting potentially all of the country's diesel engines run on plant-grown oils, 2) vastly reduce the need for logging our remaining forests because hemp fiber (which is a seperate part of the plant from the oil seeds) makes great paper, and 3) let the stalks and such can be used as livestock food, reducing costs for livestock outfits.

-Arlos

I've always found this line of thinking very interesting too. Why not do this? or hell a combination of all three (biodiesel, hydrogen and electric).

I am really surprised more private companies haven't found ways to make cost effective mod's to existing cars using one of the three above mentioned technologies...

I mean if you created a simple upgrade to a standard car that was cost effective and used hemp instead of oil you could be the next J.D Rockefeller.

I would also love to see this taken on, however I can see why no one is ready to start the fight. The costs of even starting the fight would be through the roof, and then not only do you need to pay the costs of actually getting it goin gbut you have to have a sizable amout to fight off the oil companys whom you are trying to put out of business.

Political influnce is also a problem. As much as we like to think representatives are representing the people, I think its clear that they are representing the people who paid the bill. We all know the our representatives have personal agendas they are tying to push, influenced by those who donate the money to them. This is not a partasin attack, its very clear that people on all sides are guilty of this.

This new group would have to overcome a huge amount of power in oil companys and those who represent them to change the way america thinks. Only when americans really embrase the technology and would be willing to spend their hard earned money on that technology will they be able to overcome the oil companys.

Some day it will happen, and the pioneer of that new industry will become the new powerhouse in the US the way oil companies are today.

[Captain Insano]

I don't have much knowledge regarding the politics behind biodiesel...

I am curious... why haven't more nations taken this up?

Canada for example... Your laws against using mary jane are slim to none... Why haven't your canucks developed this technology?

I really am surprised that no one has turned hemp into a viable fuel yet... Seriously what is stopping people?

Had I a billion dollars in the bank I would buy myself a nice island and make this work and become the next big "oil" tycoon.

[Rust]

I suspect it may be because Canada is a net exporter of oil... mostly to the US.

--R.

[Tuggan]

My uncle was an engineer in alternative fuel design for engines and what not. Its almost impossible to get a good contract going to fund the projects, plus the oil companies own tons of the rights to the technology/designs. Bought all that shit out when they first started coming up with the ideas. They dont want us to switch to alternatives because they'll lose a fucking ton of money, and the oil companies do some serious buyouts and lobbying. LOTS of pull on the big auto companies as well.

[Guntaag Gorefeast]

the oil companies own tons of the rights to the technology/designs

Lots of things in this world piss me off, and thats one of the worst=/

[Witty]

Vegetable oil was actually the original intent for fueling the diesel engine by it's inventor, but those who bought it were some of many investors in the petrolium industry at the time. Now they are just struggling to keep their place before they are overrun.

I'm all for it, myself. The town I live in has a few pumps already and all garbage / recyling trucks have recently began running off of it as well.