Tired of the rhetoric

[Maeya]

"Marriage? It's out-dated philosophy! Throw it away! Who cares that it's foundation is thousands of years old! Who cares that it promotes a stable home environment for children! Who cares! "

DUde if you got a divorce where do you have room to even talk about that homie ?

Hey "homie", it was sarcasm. Did you see the rest of his post where he made similar comments?

[Martrae]

With Mindia gone I think I'm oldest now.

[Goose_Man]

The big issue I see here in the US is the entitlement mindset of the average American citizen. I’ve see time and time again a immigrant come to this country with NOTHING and in after a few years of busting ass he suddenly becomes a millionaire.

The great thing about the US is that it still is the land of the free and opportunity exists for ANYONE. It’s the retards out there whom feel that they are owed something because their mom popped them out on US soil that are fucking it up for the rest of us.

As soon as people realize they can’t get something for nothing I think this country would be a much better place. However, with the liberal mind set running rampant throughout the country people will always feel they are entitled to everything and they don’t have to put forth any effort to actually achieve success.

I think the single most destructive force that is ruining our society is the very thought of “money for nothing”. It’s crap total and complete crap. The liberal media and the liberal mind set breeds this thought. Just look at the posters who are brainwashed on NT. They all believe that you need to give and give and give and damn you greedy bastard if you don’t. Those poor souls who don’t have any money are a victim of society, I call bull shit, and they are only victims of them selves.

The liberal leaders of the country would love to have gov. control of everything, tossing the masses a bone every now and then while making it look like they are taking care of you. Here is some free health care (see we care about you folks), here is some government housing (see we care), here is some food stamps and a little spending money courtesy of your local government (see we care). But if you want to rise up and make it on your own they give you a giant middle finger, tax you to death, call you evil, then have the media demonize you. News flash, they want to control you, they don’t want you to succeed they want you to just live and pay your taxes so they the liberal rich elite will stay the ruling elite.

Uuugh I started to ramble on I’ll stop.

Oh yeah I'm 27

[Bigrozz]

Hence my comparison of a liberal run society and the Imperial Order.


Minda was old? From reading his post I had guess 12 or 13 tops.

[Tossica]

You are all deluded. I am surrounded by "liberals" and NONE of them expect something for nothing. You are all brainwashed by the conservative media and spout bullshit you heard from FOX news on this message board as if it's truth. I work my ass off every day as do all of my friends. We work, pay taxes, raise our children etc. Many of them live simple lifestyles and don't fall prey to the "must be rich to be happy" mindset that most of the country has but none bitch about the things you talk about. If anything, we all want LESS government, not more.

[Zanchief]

You don't read very well, Zanchief. I'll quote myself for you:

I know this - I've been through a divorce and I rue the day that I married for the wrong reasons. You see... I've BEEN part of the problem and it's helped me to see more clearly the effect that it has on those around me and those that I care for.

I don't blame any "conspiracy" for anything. I sincerely hope that there isn't a group of citizens in this country saying to themselves "how can we help to propigate law and culture that is subversive to stability and growth for our nation?"

I blame people, like yourself, that run around blindly bemoaning that there are rich people in the world who don't want to give you their money, or that there is some homeless person smoking crack on the street that the governement obviously doesn't care about (that's sarcasm in case your reading comprehension hasn't kicked in yet), or that someone spanked their kid for shoplifting at the age of 9.

If socialism is so great... if economic redistribution is the "right way"... why does it fail in practice? If you want a "working" socialism - take a peek at China: half the population is still in the 19th century. Sounds like a wonderful goal. But, we're not even approaching our socialism that wisely... no... we're going to attack our goal of economic equality by freeing the criminals, destroying the family, penalizing the successful. We're going to make it a crime to be accomplished - all in the name of "diversity" or "equal treatment".

Marriage? It's out-dated philosophy! Throw it away! Who cares that it's foundation is thousands of years old! Who cares that it promotes a stable home environment for children! Who cares!

Child Discipline? We're not huns! You should treat your six year old like he's an adult - reason with him, don't reprimand him! If he's breaking windows or doing drugs, it's society's fault - not his or yours! Take him out for ice cream instead of grounding him!

Religion? We're our own religion now! God is a myth for the weak-minded! We don't need a fear of a higher power - we have a fear of not getting McDonalds for lunch, already! Only idiots have religion!

Criminals? They're not guilty of anything other than living the life that we forced on them by being unkind and discompassionate! Free therapy - not jail time! It's not their fault!

Entitlements? We need more! We can't really expect people to EARN these things, can we?! How dare we expect people to pay for services they receive!

Business? They're the devils! How dare they make profits! How dare they not give me a job... I'm a minority! How dare they not produce new positions just so that the "disadvantaged" can have work! Greedy bastards, all of them!

Children having sex? Kids will be kids! Get off their backs! If they enjoy it, who are YOU to tell them they shouldn't be doing it!

Drugs? I like it! Leave me alone! How dare you tell me what I can and can't do! You're not the boss of me!

This is the chanting going on in every medium of communication today. It's a subversion of the securities which were the glue holding our stable society together.

It's falling apart and you refuse to see it.

Would you trade stable family values for minority rights. The real stuff, the slavery, voting rights, lynchings, a women’s right to choose her career?

We just traded one set of problems for another. Bitch all you want about the good old days, I for one think its way better now. Kids have sex earlier...big fucking deal.

The problem with you whiny fucking conservatives is you don't seem to understand the simple fact that you CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO STAY TOGETHER OR TO HAVE A STABLE HOME. The liberals aren't breaking up families. They aren't promoting promiscuity. They aren't trying to create single parent families or divorces. They're just dealing with the problems instead of whining like a bleeding vagina about. You would think that YOU of all people would understand that.

Liberals try to find a correlation between poverty and crime rates and conservatives whine about accountability. Fine, but even you can see it.

Liberals fight against child abuse, and you turn it into interfering with proper ways to raise children.

Liberals accept ALL religions, not just one, and we are trying to censor Christians.

Liberals try and stop business' from exploiting there employees and why should a business care about anyone? Less money more hours so 1% of the country can earn more money and exploit everyone else. That's gotta be conducive to a booming society.

Tell me how exactly liberals are responsible for ANY of the things you listed. Tell me how liberals are trying to create socialism by differing from conservatives by 1% of tax distribution in your country?

Relax, Ugz and stop acting like a 60 year old cranky old man.

Every example you gave as "how liberals are destroying society" is such a farcical exaggeration, I'd like you to find ONE politician in your entire country who has ever come close to thinking like that.

You live in this world of far fetched scenarios of minorities exploiting the system and 10 year olds fucking in the streets and smocking crack. Sorry bud but that aint close to reality.

[Minrott]

You and your friends want less government, I don't doubt. Less control, more states rights, very similiar to the conservative point of view. But the left is also the side that wants to institute a social program to give (insert money, college, job, food stamp, house, etc) to anyone that "can't afford" it on their own. All these social programs that have stemmed from FDR's rule have instituted the need for administrations to govern them, thereby increasing the size of the bureaucracy that owns this country. Regardless of whether or not either side wants more or less government.

[Zanchief]

I think the single most destructive force that is ruining our society is the very thought of “money for nothing”. It’s crap total and complete crap. The liberal media and the liberal mind set breeds this thought. Just look at the posters who are brainwashed on NT. They all believe that you need to give and give and give and damn you greedy bastard if you don’t. Those poor souls who don’t have any money are a victim of society, I call bull shit, and they are only victims of them selves.

Explain to me how the media promotes laziness and government waste. "Tonight on CNN, stop working and scam the government, it's a great fucking idea, bitch's."

Man you Conservatives are turning into whiners with this media thing. I think you could blame the media for every single thing in the world and they are STILL not doing there job cause they're afraid to piss your right-wing fucknuts off.

[ClakarEQ]

As am I (this was to answer the what age are the posters here)

Looks like I didn't refresh and missed some good shiznat :\

[Langston]

When I posted this, I wasn't attempting to convince anyone of anything - or really expecting any of you to take it seriously, at all. It was a catharsis for myself, more than anything.

So, to that end, I'm not going to argue my opinion with any of you. You don't like what I said? Fine. You don't agree with what I said? That's fine, too.

However, these statements reflect how I feel... like it or not. I respect your right to form your own opinions and I encourage you to exercise that right.

[Arlos]

Every single generation, as the eldest in the generation starts to hit middle age, has looked on society and the following generations, and proclaimed them to be Rancid Batshit. Remember the scorn heaped upon us Gen-X folks by the baby boomers? Remember the scorn heaped upon the baby boomers by the GI generation? I have seen transcripts of clay tablets from Assyria in about 1600 BC that were talking about how the modern generation is going to shit, that no one respects their parents any more, etc. etc. etc. Exact same thing you're bitching about, different word choices. It's a universal belief of humanity, happens to every generation. Always has, always will. There is no "golden era". Every era has had it's own issues, it's own problems. We have a different set than they did, big deal.

The family unit is gone, you say? Well, could the fact that women asserted their rights to have an independent life, with their own jobs and careers have something to do with family life no longer being like the 1950s perhaps? I think you might get some resistance if you try and re-assert the doctrine of "A woman's place is in the home, with no interests aside from cleaning, cooking, and popping out babies". If you want us to return to that time, changes like that would be necessary conditions, but they're impossible to do. That's just one example.

That's the biggest difference I see with liberals and conservatives, in many ways. Liberals realize that change is inevitable, and advocate adapting to it; trying to figure out how to accentuate the positives of the changes, and minimizing the negatives. Conservatives, on the other hand, resist all change, and sit there screaming "NO! CHANGE BAD! Everything must be like it was <Pick a #> years ago, when everything was perfect!" Forgetting, of course, the fact that no age is perfect, and nostalgia blinds us now to the serious problems THEY had back then.

So, the choice is whether to look forward or to look back. I know which way *I* prefer.

-Arlos

[Minrott]

It's too bad liberals didn't just try to change things that are bad for society, rather trying to change everything simply because its been that way for a while.

I'm not singling out *you* Arlos or any one who considers themselves liberal. Rather the whole left wing. Enough people consider themselves liberal that when they all get together in one group, the lot of the singular things they individually think needs change eventually covers EVERYTHING.

[Arlos]

The problem is, Minrott, is that everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE has a different idea of what is and is not "bad for society". For me, the current "War on Drugs" is horrible for society. It didn't work in the 20s when we tried the same thing, just against alcohol, it's not working now, either. All it's accomplishing is wasting approximately 200 billion of taxpayer dollars a year, and making a lot of crime syndicates very very very rich and powerful. There's even tons of statistics that if you really want to get people off drugs, every dollar spent on education and treatment is worth 10 spent on enforcement. Yet, even here on NT, look at the reactions by many of the more conservative element to the concept of repealing it the same way prohibition was repealed.

You can pick out any issue, and you'll have positions just as randomly distributed around the map. Hell, look at some of the recent debates around the country: Gay marriage just to pick one. There's a lot of people who feel that preventing gays from marrying is as bad as a law preventing blacks from marrying whites would be. To that group, it's a civil rights issue. Yet there's another group who feels somehow threatened by 2 people of the same gender getting married, and feel that it will destroy society somehow. The first side isn't wanting to see change just for the sake of change, they want change because they perceive an injustice. The 2nd side is dead-set against change. So, given those positions, argument is inevitable.

As I said, I feel that change is an absolute inevitability. Nothing stays the same in societies, nothing. You either adapt and grow, or you stagnate. Yes, there are cycles societies go through (go read The Fourth Turning, for an excellent examination of this), but looking back on history, both ours and world history, the only constant I see is that Change Happens. Trying to prevent it is as futile as trying to stop the tides from rising and falling.

-Arlos

[Martrae]

The loss of morals is the problem. Most moms don't stay at home anymore to instill morals in their children and schools feel it's not their place to so it's the children that lose. Once children with incomplete morals started breeding their children became the kids capping each other over a pair of shoes.

[alezrik]

Conservatives always see things in black and white, whereas liberals see the spectrum of color between the 2. Granted they see too many colors between the 2 often, but not everything is black/white either.

I just know I never hear liberals try to tell me how to live, how to believe, and that is my biggest gripe. If I want to be a heroin addicted satan worshiper who holds huge orgies, I should have that right, granted I'm not violateing anyone elses rights to be stuck up, watching the 700 club, and praying that the end of the world happens soon.

IMO its not the loss of morals that is the problem, it is people trying to define the word morals for everyone else.

[Ganzo]

I just know I never hear liberals try to tell me how to live, how to believe, and that is my biggest gripe.

Haw thats all they do

[Minrott]

Arlos, that's my point. Believe me we agree on a lot of things.

[Harrison]

I miss the days when there was a discussion of issues... not sound bites and talking points. I miss the days when judges were appointed to judge... not legislate. I miss the days when people were educated and informed... not led and misled by the media and pop culture and a worthless educational system.

It's a sad state that our nation is in - and I find you folks who are gloating over this to be beyond reprehensible.

There once was a time when an honest man could make an honest dollar, spank his kids for talking back, have a loving wife who he married because she was his sweetheart. A man who could read the paper for informative news without having to sift through the propaganda and who didn't need to feel guilty for being successful in life... who could attend church if he wanted, or not if he chose, without being ridiculed for either.

Self flagellation and misery is expected of everyone with an ounce of success or ability beyond the average while in return for their self-immolation they're rewarded with beratement and diatribes for being an evil person who "made it" in life.

It sickens me... and frankly, I blame the liberalization of our country for it. What price freedom, huh? What price equality? What price socialism. One of these days, you liberals will realize that not all men are created equal. Shockingly, some have skills and abilities which exceed others'... and for this you believe they should be penalized or held back for the "good" of the less "fortunate".

I'm tired of your unrealistic ideals based on nothing but a nonsensical misunderstanding of the nature of man. Wisen up. Wake up. Stop trying to force the round world into a square hole.

[smiley poster=surprise]The man does have a brain.[/smiley]

[Mop]

I miss the days when there was a discussion of issues... not sound bites and talking points. I miss the days when judges were appointed to judge... not legislate. I miss the days when people were educated and informed... not led and misled by the media and pop culture and a worthless educational system.

It's a sad state that our nation is in - and I find you folks who are gloating over this to be beyond reprehensible.

There once was a time when an honest man could make an honest dollar, spank his kids for talking back, have a loving wife who he married because she was his sweetheart. A man who could read the paper for informative news without having to sift through the propaganda and who didn't need to feel guilty for being successful in life... who could attend church if he wanted, or not if he chose, without being ridiculed for either.

Self flagellation and misery is expected of everyone with an ounce of success or ability beyond the average while in return for their self-immolation they're rewarded with beratement and diatribes for being an evil person who "made it" in life.

It sickens me... and frankly, I blame the liberalization of our country for it. What price freedom, huh? What price equality? What price socialism. One of these days, you liberals will realize that not all men are created equal. Shockingly, some have skills and abilities which exceed others'... and for this you believe they should be penalized or held back for the "good" of the less "fortunate".

I'm tired of your unrealistic ideals based on nothing but a nonsensical misunderstanding of the nature of man. Wisen up. Wake up. Stop trying to force the round world into a square hole.

[smiley poster=surprise]Ya what he said, that is my oppinion too.Really.[/smiley]

[Tossica]

ha

[Harrison]

I forgot agreeing with someone was something to be frowned upon.

[Arlos]

Only in cases where the person never actually espouses any opinions of his own, and is known for constantly posting the equivalent of "YEAH! What he said" in threads as if they were dispensing pearls of Socratic Wisdom. Which is why you're getting slammed for doing it, yet again.

-Arlos

[Mop]

I wasn't slamming him, I just took the chance to make a stupid joke because everyone always says he does it

[Harrison]

*nod*

I've posted why long winded posts that convey the same point are often not even read anyways.

Arlos is too busy wiping the drool from his chops in an attempt to spit out the next line of bullshit to notice though.

I have my opinions and state them often. When I agree with someone elses opinion, morons without the wherewithal (see: Arlos) to understand that some people do agree with eachother, start howling like a bunch of jackals.

Arlos is an intelligent man, he's just an asshole and doesn't think before he flies off the handle.

[brinstar]

I'm tired of your unrealistic ideals based on nothing but a nonsensical misunderstanding of the nature of man. Wisen up. Wake up. Stop trying to force the round world into a square hole.

for the record, it doesn't require force to put a round peg into a square hole