So I took my son to a pet store....

[Metranon]

You dont need tylenol, shampoo, soap or toothpaste either. Lets get rid of it all, and go back to the good ol days where we sat around fires and bathed once a year.

animal "cruelty" is hardly a phenomenon of the 20th century

In the 18th and 19th centuries whales were hunted with primitive harpoons and later powered harpoon- guns and even rockets. Whales takes HOURS to die, the whalers hack the whale up for its blubber and meat while it's still alive

Many ancient Chinese medicines call for ingredients extracted from the gall bladder or other internal organs of bears. The traditional way to obtain such extracts is to keep the bear alive in a pen with a removable shunt piercing its organs so the bear can be kept alive for a long time while it's internal organs are being drained of fluids.

In many mediterranean cultures, it is customary to play primitive versions of soccer or rugby/lacrosse with the head of a goat, mule, or other beast of burden. In many cases the animal is paraded around the field while hog-tied, and then it's head is removed while still alive by hacking it off with a axe or large knife in the full view of children, etc.

[Tuggan]

So, lets sum this up...

You condemn one sort of illegal recreational activity, yet persue another sort.

I suppose if youre that blind as to thinking abusing animals is recreation, than yes. That would be correct.

You feel that dog fighting is wrong because the animals are hurt and killed, yet feel that hurting and killing animals for research and food is perfectly acceptable.

Dog fighting IS wrong, period. There is no 'you feel' in that statement. Animal research is a necessity, fighting dogs is not. Slaughtering animals is a necessity, fighting dogs is not. I dont care what kind of splitting hairs semantics bullshit you want to try to use to 'prove' me wrong, but its really quite simple. We eat meat, meat comes from animals. Human survival is more important than anything. Human savagery for entertainment is not comparable.

You say killing animals for food is acceptable because we need to survive, yet you do not need to eat meat to survive.



Ahh.. makes perfect sense.

You said we dont need meat to surivive, and me being the fool and playing into the semantics game agreed. Goodluck supporting the world on veggies alone. I suppose it would be possible, but entirely pointless.

So basically, yes, I put human worth above that of animals.

But cruelty to animals for entertainment is really something worth arguing against isnt it? You guys are fucking silly.

[Spazz]

Im not really condemming it cuz its against the law i condemm it because it is cruel and twisted.Btw if you think major crime and violent crime are comparable to smoking weed your a little off its kind of like using the speeding arguement as saying you break the law. Im sayin we do need meat to survive thats kinda why we have those k9 teeth ya learn bout that in school. And im also saying that testing on animals to save human lives isnt compareable to fighting dogs for profit and amusement.

[Maeya]

But you're not arguing against *ALL* forms of cruelty, just the ones you don't approve of.

[Spazz]

I think were argueing against pointless cruelty.

[Spazz]

Are you argueing for dog fighting?

[Metranon]

You said we dont need meat to surivive, and me being the fool and playing into the semantics game agreed. Goodluck supporting the world on veggies alone. I suppose it would be possible, but entirely pointless.

actually it would be easier to feed the entire population of the world on vegetable matter alone, since most farm animals raised for meat require many times their own body mass in vegetable feed in order to survive and grow.

[Maeya]

Im sayin we do need meat to survive thats kinda why we have those k9 teeth ya learn bout that in school.

Oh shit, someone better tell all the vegetarians and vegans they're doomed.

[Spazz]

From what ive been told eating meat and veggies is over all a healthier lifestyle than veggies alone. I think thats what i meant also can you tell me what exactly one has to do to live a perfectly healthy lifestyle on veggies alone ?

[Maeya]

Yeah - you have to suppliment the vitamins you'd find in meats by eating other foods with comprable benefits. Such as legumes for protein.

And, yeah, meat and veggies are a healther choice than just veggies alone. But it is possible to survive on only vegetables. So if dog fighting is the needless abuse and slaughter of innocent animals, you can argue that so too is eating meat. Because you CAN survive without it. So you don't NEED to kill animals to survive. Making the slaughter of animals for food needless.

Look - I am against dog fighting, and I'm not advocating the abuse or mistreatment of animals. I, along with many others on the thread, am trying to point out that you can't scream that we are all hypocrites when you guys are being hypocritical yourselves by condoning one form of animal abuse but not another.

But anyway, I think I'm done with the thread. I don't know how I can make my point any clearer, and I'm tired of trying.

[Harrison]

Vegetarians look like vegetarians for a reason.

They're fucking retarded.

[Maeya]

By the way Tikker, I had a bird growing up who tried to be a tough guy like that parakeet. It was funny... he'd let you pick him up and pet him, but every so often he'd hiss and bite your finger to remind you that he was scary and didn't need you to pet him.

[Metranon]

you have to get the nutrients you would normally get from meat, from other sources. Mostly, if you're vegan you have to find a source of complete amino acid protein, which is abundant in most meat but absent from other sources. There are some other vitamins too like vitamin A i believe is a pain to get if you're vegan.

This is very much possible but for most people used to eating a north american diet, it's quite difficult. If you live a very active lifestyle or often skip meals, it gets even more difficult.

[Spazz]

I think people NEED the ability to eat as healthy as possible.

[DangerPaul]

hopefully some day we will figure out how to make things without testing them on animals ;\

I vote that we take the morons of NT and test products on them, I feel this way because I just read this entire thread. Excuse me while I go shoot myself in the head, while Sid kills the neighbor's dog and I roll a dooby while shooting THC into a rat's brain.

[Metranon]

Vegetarians look like vegetarians for a reason.

They're fucking retarded.

the Dhali Lama is a retard?

the only reason a lot of vegetarians look unhealthy is because they're trying to live a vegetarian lifestyle while still adhering to north American eating habits. If you want to not eat meat, and still be healthy, veggie whoppers and pasta with canned tomato sauce 5 nights a week are not a good way to go.

[Tuggan]

as i recall the only person i called a hypocrite was kahart, for snorting blow and smokin weed then coming off high and mighty cause i would on occasion smoke some pot.

[Adivina]

I find all forms of animal cruelty wrong. I try not to buy anything that has been tested on animals (unless it were unavoidable, such as heaven forbid, I ended up with cancer one day or some other condition that consuming said product would mean the difference between living and dying. Perhaps that is selfish I know.)

I have only eaten veal once in my life, and that was because I was mislead to think it was something else. It is very tasty, but I don't think the ends justify the means, hence I avoid it.

I tried the vegitarian lifestyle for quite a long time, and my mother was a vegitarian when I was growing up. But to be honest, its too hard to maintain for me as a woman. I try to eat as "animal friendly" as I can though, for example not consuming veal.

I'm sure I will be picked apart because I eat meat and that must be hypocrisy, but I do try to make sure I do not condone animal cruelty as much and as often as I can.

[Skrum]

I would be in favor of human testing for death row inmates and such, and im sure places like china actively test on humans. The main reason is I would think we would find some cures that work, but didn't work on animals.

[Adivina]

Thats actually a good point Skrum, but torturing a human is different that torturing an animal god knows.....

I see it as the same shit, you are still tampering with a life, but people would go nuts if that was suggested in congress.

[Skrum]

well I have no problems tampering with lives that are going to be ended anyway. I'd also be in favor of offering crack addicts and hobos cash incentives to be test subjects. I am pretty big on utilitarianism and would totally kill one man to save 1000, even if that man is me.

[Ouchyfish]

I would be in favor of human testing for death row inmates and such, and im sure places like china actively test on humans. The main reason is I would think we would find some cures that work, but didn't work on animals.

I hope you are never falsely accused/prosecuted. =)

[Gaazy]

i think we should take killers and rapists and put them in a gladiator style ring and arm them with spoons and let them fight lions for the gift of not having death penalty and staying in jail for life. And put it on pay-per-view and make tons of money from it. Could bring loads of it!

[kaharthemad]

That being said, I have to defend tuggan here.

You guys aren't better than him.

Now your position is fucked tug...Harrison is defending it.

[kaharthemad]

yeah, and we wouldnt have a fraction of the medicines, medical technology, creams, ointments, shampoos, soaps, food products, etc.. if it werent for lab tests on animals. go ahead and keep arguing like a fucking moron.

Im all for substututing Tuggan for the lab rat.