It's Ford's turn

[Phlegm]

First it was GM now it's Ford's turn to layoff people and closing plants. American car companies are taking a beating. From MSNBC:

Ford Motor Co. executives will present a restructuring plan to the company’s board of directors Wednesday that recommends closing at least 10 assembly and component plants and cutting between 25,000 to 30,000 hourly jobs in North America within five years according to a report in The Detroit News.

A company restructuring was expected to be announced on Jan. 23, but Wednesday’s report in The Detroit News is more severe than previously thought and indicates the urgency of Ford Chairman and CEO Bill Ford’s drive to repair the ailing automaker’s North American operations the newspaper said.

The restructuring plan, called the “way forward” was approved by directors at an off-site meeting in October with top executives in South Carolina the report said. Ford had said a company turnaround plan would impact all levels of the company, and so the automaker will announce the departure of as many as seven top executives in the coming weeks according to the newspaper.

News of massive Ford layoffs comes just a few weeks after General Motors Corp., the world’s largest automaker, said it plans to cut 30,000 workers, or about 9 percent of its global work force of about 325,000 people, in an effort to slash $7 billion of expenses by next year. The GM plan included closing nine North American assembly plants and three service and parts facilities.

Big American car companies like Ford and GM are struggling to manage their costs amid slumping demand for big gas-guzzling SUVs — a longtime cash cow — and the crippling costs associated with healthcare bills and pensions, while at the same time warding off competition from nimbler and more efficient foreign car manufacturers, like Toyota and Nissan.

[Minrott]

Because slashing million dollar CEO and managment, you know, the fags running industry in America into the ground, wouldn't help anything.

[Goose_Man]

in an effort to slash $7 billion of expenses by next year

Yeah a million dollar pay cut here and there would be fine but I dont think it would come close to the 7 billion mark.

[Thon]

just buy toyota, the american car companies make more cars in mexico than in america anyway

[Captain Insano]

Maybe it would help if they renamed their cars after popular mexican people:

like the focus could be the: Julio Caesar Chavez Mark-17

or the Taurus could be: Poncho V1000

etc etc... Man those would sell off the hook here in North Tijuana... they could even make them orange and bright yellow and multicolored to match the colorful, yet TASTELESS personalities that make up our brown lazy friends.

[Tacks]

Woohoo, less white trash piece of shit vehicles being produced.

[Spazz]

I feel so patriotic and proud to be an american when i see people loose they jobs

[Minrott]

Goose remember your college thread? For the 30,000 hard working folks (trying not to laugh. Lazy fat union fucks) that lost their jobs, they could have saved the same money cutting 10,000 middle managment "oh look at me I wear a shirt and tie in a factory and drive a Lexus even though I work for Ford IOWN" worthless degree carrying inept cocksuckers.

[Gaazy]

fuck the union

[ClakarEQ]

I hope most of the folks here plan on moving out of the country to get a "good job".

I feel unions outlived the useful factor some time ago but we (Americans) wouldn't have gotten here (standard of living) had it not been for them.

So, make jest all you want, I really feel sorry for the folks coming out of school (college) or younger kids (like my own, 5 and 7). They will have shit for a country, hope you like the service and support industry, or maybe be a Dr. otherwise you are fucked and any hope you had of getting a piece of the pie will die along side the unions.

You 20 somethings, better bank every penny you get, you'll be paying for my healthcare and all my fuckups. Worse yet, you'll be fired at 35 with your 2.5 kids and a dog as you watch your job get moved to mexico, china, india, etc.

So be careful for what you wish for.

/sarcasm off

[Kramer]

ummmm, they will have jobs, just with car makers that aren't american, oh dear, the people making a gazillion dollars won't live in the US, just everyone running the factories, middle management, and executives that live in the US, who gives a crap if the people who own the companies live in another country, if they have plants here then there are tens of thousands of people getting paid.....

also, unions were getting more than they should have been for DECADES.... if the car company execs would have not just let it slide, the unions would not have been such a phat ticket for so long... So Yeah, the unions were great, except that because of the FAT they lived off for the past decades is biting their kids in the ass NOW...

(SEE SOCIAL SECURITY)

SHOCKER THAT POORLY RUN COMPANIES (ALLOWING UNION PROMISES THAT ELIMINATED THE ABILITY FOR COMPETITION WITH COMPANIES OUTSIDE THE U.S. IS PART OF THIS) WOULD FAIL IN A CAPITALIST SYSTEM

[Tuggan]

yall are so short sighted on these issues its incredible. hopefully none of you work with a company contracted by ford or gm, cause its not only gm and ford employees that will be losing jobs. the number of people indirectly employeed by the big 3 is much higher than the people directly working for them.

when ford/gm/chrysler cant afford to keep its own employees, theyre also going to be making cuts elsewhere. parts are cheaper straight from china, so guess what? there goes another several thousand american jobs spread across the country. majority of IT jobs at the auto companies are contracted employees, which are often the first to go... so there goes another several thousand jobs across the country. why bother paying more for american manufacturing jobs when you have mexico just 1 border away? they work for cheap, hey look, another several thousand american jobs across the country gone. the list goes on and on.

you lose the big 3 and the entire american economy will collapse. then what will you have to say? you will be busting your ass to have it taxed away even more so we can support the millions of unemployed. OOPS, looks like were all fucked now. sure is a good thing you convinced yourself to believe that nissan is oh so much better than that chevy or ford. or its a good thing you got such a good deal on that kia.

then 5 years from now china will be pumping out cars even cheaper than hyundai can produce. then toyota and honda will be the next to be laying off its north american employees. then what will you fools have to say? just abuncha dipshits with a slant eyed perspective on your own neighbors and country. oh well though, keep on bashing the american worker and his product... and keep on shovelin the cash into foreign pockets.

[Diekan]

I hope most of the folks here plan on moving out of the country to get a "good job".

I feel unions outlived the useful factor some time ago but we (Americans) wouldn't have gotten here (standard of living) had it not been for them.

So, make jest all you want, I really feel sorry for the folks coming out of school (college) or younger kids (like my own, 5 and 7). They will have shit for a country, hope you like the service and support industry, or maybe be a Dr. otherwise you are fucked and any hope you had of getting a piece of the pie will die along side the unions.

You 20 somethings, better bank every penny you get, you'll be paying for my healthcare and all my fuckups. Worse yet, you'll be fired at 35 with your 2.5 kids and a dog as you watch your job get moved to mexico, china, india, etc.

So be careful for what you wish for.

/sarcasm off

Hey now the Internet and George Bush told me that out sourcing was a good thing! Must be true!

I've been bitching about the dangers of out sourcing for how long now?

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times... it's only a matter of time before Sweden is the world's leader in biotech, before Germany is the world's leader in engineering, before India is the world's leader in information technology... and what does that leave us? The world's leader in crime rates! woohoo go us! What happens then? Well, for one the value of our dollar bottoms out and it'll take 1000 USD to equal one fucking peso LOL all you want... mark my words.

This country is being sold out by greedy already richer than they deserve to be assmonkeys.

And what is anyone doing about it? Oh yeah... nothing! Why? Because it's more fun to watch Survivor and American Idol than it is to actually READ about what the fuck is going on in Washington. The average American is a moron, period. It's OUR fault that we're walking down the path to a massive depression... our own blatant stupidity and laziness.

[Spazz]

What is it the unions are doing that is killing these companys ?

[Spliffs]

I wish I was 20-30 years older so I could be getting ready to collect my phat retirement checks.

I'm moving to Canada, fuck this.

[Yamori]

And what is anyone doing about it?

What do you propose to do about it?

---


Anyways, outsourcing and the rest of the "blame the rich" thing is only one half of the coin. It's not wrong - it really is very unhealthy for the country and it will come back to bite outsourcers in the ass in the future. What good is saving several millions if the country's economy slumps in the near future and no one buys your crap because people from India took their job?

But you have to remember, the purpose of business isn't to secure the current comfortable living style of the average American: they aren't charities, they exist solely to make money.

We should instead be asking, WHY are all these companies outsourcing? Why are they hiring people in other countries?

1) It costs more to have a company primarily in the USA than it does in 2nd world and some 3rd world countries. Why does it cost more?

1a) High taxes in all respect - profit and employee side: proposed and championed by the very same people who whine and bitch and blame the rich about issues like this now I might add.

1b) Unions: particularly, because they are currently INVOLUNTARY and the law forces employers and employees to participate with them. They artificially inflate wages, and make it extremely difficult to re-negotiate things such as Ford's health care policies, which are currently choking the company and dragging it under.

2) The country riddled with legal problems for companies:
2a) Nightmarish bureaucracy and red tape that make it very obnoxious and expensive to start/run a business.
2b) Huge risk for expensive lawsuits regarding employee relations (affirmative action issues [if they sell to the government], sexual harrassment suits [which routinely target companies - not just the offenders], ect)
2c) Blatantly unclear anti-trust laws which pretty much allow any successful business at any time to come under fire for it.


... When you look at all that (and I'm sure there's more), it's at least understandable why large corporations want as little as possible to do with having their business run in the USA.

Instead of just pointing the finger of blame at "greedy people" - attention should also be put on liberal economic policies that have become corrupt and/or useless and get rid of them.~

[Tacks]

then 5 years from now china will be pumping out cars even cheaper than hyundai can produce. then toyota and honda will be the next to be laying off its north american employees. then what will you fools have to say? just abuncha dipshits with a slant eyed perspective on your own neighbors and country. oh well though, keep on bashing the american worker and his product... and keep on shovelin the cash into foreign pockets.

I would rather that happen, then I can laugh at fools like you who aren't even skilled enough to press a button on a robot and have to have me my fries and coke instead.

[Tuggan]

yeah taxx, its really unfortunate some people actually make a living without having a $100,000 piece of paper that says 'i learned gud at such and such university'.

youre in retail? or work for a grocery store or somethin right? hopefully its not a chain store, cause you two will feel the pinch when the communities that depend on the auto industry cant afford to frequent the grocery store once a week and have to cut it down to once or twice a month.

[Harrison]

Taxx talks shit and has no actual skills, noted by the fact he posts here all day from work.

[Diekan]

And what is anyone doing about it?

What do you propose to do about it?

For not turn of Survivor for a night (not you personally) and watch a little C-SPAN, see what's going on in our government. Write your congressman. Do some research on your candidates and actually VOTE for the ones who you feel will actually do a good job.

Anyways, outsourcing and the rest of the "blame the rich" thing is only one half of the coin. It's not wrong - it really is very unhealthy for the country and it will come back to bite outsourcers in the ass in the future. What good is saving several millions if the country's economy slumps in the near future and no one buys your crap because people from India took their job?[/qupte]

Whether or not you or I buys their product is almost irrelevent. There's a world market out there that's more than willing to slap down the marks, pesos, yen, whatever to buy what they want. You don't think companies like McDonalds aren't liking their chops at the idea of putting up the "Golden Arches" in downtown Baghdad?

But you have to remember, the purpose of business isn't to secure the current comfortable living style of the average American: they aren't charities, they exist solely to make money.[/qupte]

This is true, but when the cost of living is 10 times higher than the average wage and companies that are making billions of dollars a year are sending jobs overseas because they don't want to raise their wages to compensate for the increase in the cost of living - yes - that IS a problem. It's called greed. For the most part, Microsoft, for example, sells plastic disks for hundreds of dollars a pop. Gates is the richest (or at least of the very top richest people) on the planet. Do you really believe that MS needs to send jobs overseas? That's a load of shit. They're sending American jobs overseas so that top execs and the shareholders can line their pockets with even MORE money than they already have.

Is there anything wrong with making money? Hell no there isn't. Where the problem comes into play is when you're already a fucking billionare and you start destroying the lives of entire families and working people so they can finance a 5th mansion in France.

Do you honestly believe there was some mythical shortage of gas, or that big oil industries just had to jack up the price of fuel after the hurricanes? Fuck no they didn't. They saw a golden oppertunity to make astronomical amounts of money and ran with it. They posted RECORD profits for that quarter in the BILLIONS. Do you really think they would have gone bankrupt if they hadn't caused the price of gas to rise to over three dollars a gallon? That's bullshit. They would have been just fine, but instead WE had to pay 75 dollars to fill up our vehicles while they laughed all the way to the bank.

We should instead be asking, WHY are all these companies outsourcing? Why are they hiring people in other countries?

1) It costs more to have a company primarily in the USA than it does in 2nd world and some 3rd world countries. Why does it cost more?

1a) High taxes in all respect - profit and employee side: proposed and championed by the very same people who whine and bitch and blame the rich about issues like this now I might add.

1b) Unions: particularly, because they are currently INVOLUNTARY and the law forces employers and employees to participate with them. They artificially inflate wages, and make it extremely difficult to re-negotiate things such as Ford's health care policies, which are currently choking the company and dragging it under.

2) The country riddled with legal problems for companies:
2a) Nightmarish bureaucracy and red tape that make it very obnoxious and expensive to start/run a business.
2b) Huge risk for expensive lawsuits regarding employee relations (affirmative action issues [if they sell to the government], sexual harrassment suits [which routinely target companies - not just the offenders], ect)
2c) Blatantly unclear anti-trust laws which pretty much allow any successful business at any time to come under fire for it.


... When you look at all that (and I'm sure there's more), it's at least understandable why large corporations want as little as possible to do with having their business run in the USA.

Instead of just pointing the finger of blame at "greedy people" - attention should also be put on liberal economic policies that have become corrupt and/or useless and get rid of them.~

What you're forgetting is that the average American isn't striving to be the next Bill Gates. Most people just want to make a decent living. Try that on the nine dollars an hour some cheap ass company is paying for a job that deserves fifteen dollars an hour. The issue [b]IS]/b] with greed. Greedy CEO's and business owners who aren't satisified with making a decent profit. They want more and more and yet more. People wouldn't demand higher and higher wages if they weren't faced with paying 900 dollars a month for a shitty one bedroom, rat infested apartment. They wouldn't scream for more money if it didn't cost them a freaking hundred dollars to tank up their car, or if a gallon of milk didn't cost an hours wage. Those are slight exagerations, but I think you get the point.

It does boil down to greed. And the average working person is paying the price. One day when the value of our dollar drops off the scales maybe we'll wake up.

[Thon]

Taxx talks shit and has no actual skills, noted by the fact he posts here all day from work.

mother fucker you didn't pass high school, go walk to McDonalds.

and fuck all US car companies, take a drive through Flint before you start beating off too how great GM/Ford is to the country, i'd say Chrsyler too, but they're about as american as sauerkraut now.

the american companies said fuck you to america long ago

[Ouchyfish]

Leave it to Dieken to find a way to name Bush but leave out Clinton.

NAFTA called for immediately eliminating duties on half of all U.S. goods shipped to Mexico and gradually phasing out other tariffs over a period of about 14 years. Restrictions were to be removed from many categories, including motor vehicles and automotive parts, computers, textiles, and agriculture. The treaty also protected intellectual property rights (patents, copyrights, and trademarks) and outlined the removal of restrictions on investment among the three countries. Provisions regarding worker and environmental protection were added later as a result of supplemental agreements signed in 1993. This agreement was an expansion of the earlier Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement of 1989. Unlike the European Union, NAFTA does not create a set of supranational governmental bodies, nor does it create a body of law which is superior to national law. NAFTA is a treaty under international law. (Under United States law it is classed as a congressional-executive agreement rather than a treaty, but that reflects a peculiar sense of the term "treaty" in United States constitutional law, but that sense is not followed by international law or the laws of other states.)

The agreement was initially pursued by free-trade conservative governments in the US and Canada, led by Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, and US President George H. W. Bush. There was considerable opposition on both sides of the border, but in the United States it was able to secure passage after President Bill Clinton made its passage a major legislative initiative in 1993. After intense political debate and the negotiation of several side agreements, the US House passed NAFTA by 234-200 (132 Republicans and 102 Democrats voting in favor) and the US Senate passed it by 61-38. Some opposition persists to the present day, although labour unions in Canada have recently removed objections to the agreement from their platforms.

What is it the unions are doing that is killing these companys ?

They keep demanding insane raises and benefits above and beyond anything normal until they drive any hint of profitability away.

I am very curious about what the fuck we are going to have left when all means of income are outsourced. Maybe I can move to China and find a job then as a door greeter in one of their Wal-Marts.



Dieken's right though. The government can only do what we the people let them do. Right now everyone is content to let them do whatever the fuck they please as long as we have our big macs and network shows.

[Diekan]

Where did I mention Bush?

[Ouchyfish]

Hey now the Internet and George Bush told me that out sourcing was a good thing! Must be true!.

[Diekan]

oh - well that's just because he's the current baboon in the white house. I hold Clinton just as responsible.