Outstanding speech given today by Al Gore

[Menelvir]

“I think his hypocrisy knows no bounds,” McClellan said of Gore.

As I watched the movie, I did find myself secretly wishing that McClellan had been offered
the role of the lascivious, quick-witted, gunslinging dentist before Kilmer had.

[Kramer]

wow. that's annoying even in cyberspace.

[kaharthemad]

Anyone remember the comment Bush made some time ago that if this were a "dictatorship" it'd be a lot easier?

Yeah and I remeber these quotes too...

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]

"The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood." [Adolph Hitler, quoted in Hitler, A Study in Tyranny, by Alan Bullock (Harper Collins, NY)]


"It is thus necessary that the individual should come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the individual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole ... that above all the unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and will of an individual. .... This state of mind, which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of the community, is really the first premise for every truly human culture .... we understand only the individual's capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow man." [Adolph Hitler, 1933]

[Eziekial]

seeking more power while in office is not a unique to any particular party.

[kaharthemad]

Also I know you said Arlos that wire tapping should be an impeachable defense but where was your comment when Clinton announced his approval for Operation Echelon back in 98? Fact is this whole debacle was started a long time ago. Impeachable offense? We would have had to start with FDR and bump off all of them.

You have the NYT stating a few years ago during the Clinton Administration the Wiretapping was a nesscesity. All of the sudden Bush needs to be impeached? http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/cyber/articles/27network.html

“The US National Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON, which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world,”

Fact is it was ok under a liberal president but not under a republican president.

I find it odd that political viewpoints are very short term memory. Say no more than 12 years.

4 years ago you find Chapaquitic Teddy announcing that Saddam had WMD's and was the biggest threat to our National Security.

Sen. Kennedy Said Saddam Hussein Was Developing WMDs: "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." (Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Remarks At The Johns Hopkins School Of Advanced International Studies, Washington, D.C., 9/27/02)

Sen. Kennedy: "Saddam Hussein Is A Dangerous Figure. He's Got Dangerous Weapons." (CBS' "Face The Nation," 10/6/02)

However, in 2005 you get this statement...

Sen. Kennedy Now Says The President Manipulated Facts About Iraq's WMDs: "'Instead of providing open and honest answers about how we will achieve success in Iraq and allow our troops to begin to come home,' Kennedy said, 'the president reverted to the same manipulation of facts to justify a war we never should have fought.'" (Deb Riechmann, "Bush Forcefully Attacks Critics Of The War In Iraq," Associated Press, 11/11/05)

Why the sudden change?

Look I got no problems with your veiwpoints Arlos as well as anyones as long as they dont do the Potomac two step 3 hours after the newest party enters the White House.

[Zanchief]

Fact is it was ok under a liberal president but not under a republican president.

There you go mistaking Liberal and Democrat again.

[kaharthemad]

Fact is it was ok under a liberal president but not under a republican president.

There you go mistaking Liberal and Democrat again.

to us that belong to the government protecting you moose fuckers up north of us, they are pretty much arm and arm. Clinton was a liberal democrat.


Would it be better if I said this?

Fact is it was ok under a liberal democrat president but not under a Conservative republican president.


or this
Fact is it was ok under an impeached president but not under a non impeached president.

[Zanchief]

Fact is it was ok under a liberal president but not under a republican president.

There you go mistaking Liberal and Democrat again.

to us that belong to the government protecting you moose fuckers up north of us, they are pretty much arm and arm. Clinton was a liberal democrat.


Would it be better if I said this?

Fact is it was ok under a liberal democrat president but not under a Conservative republican president.


or this
Fact is it was ok under an impeached president but not under a non impeached president.

Translation: I was wrong.

No apology needed.

[Lyion]

[Martrae]

That pic is scary.

[Zanchief]

That pic is scary.

Tell me about it.

[Arlos]

The difference between Clinton's use of wiretapping and Bush's, is that under Clinton, it was done via FISA, where warrants were obtained, or at least were supposed to be obtained. If the NSA was not acting as it was supposed to, then those involved in behaving illegally need to be prosecuted and tossed out of the agency. Notice in both articles that are posted about Echelon, the concerns are specifically about security agencies being engaged in domestic wiretapping WITHOUT being authorized to do so by the courts. If the government goes before a court and presents them evidence sufficient to provide a probable-cause case for the court to agree wiretapping is necessary and issue a warrant, that's perfectly OK, because that is working within the system, and is holding those security agencies to the same standard as other law enforcement agencies.

You show me where Clinton specifically authorized domestic wiretapping without ANY contact with any court anywhere, and I'll be just as up in arms about it. From everything I've heard, however, the wiretapping directives they were behind were at least supposed to be operating within the law. Am I concerned about Echelon? You bet. Do I count it the same as Bush's recent actions? No.

Oh, and btw, Clinton was a moderate Democrat, not a liberal one. If he was so far liberal, he'd never have gotten elected. I still think he was a good president, though I fault him for, among other things, caving in to the military brass with "don't ask, don't tell" instead of real reform, of failing to get real health care reform passed and for not instituting a national health insurance program, and for not being able to keep his dick in his pants around ugly interns.

I also think Gore would have made a very good president, and I still think he was cheated out of the 2000 elections.

-Arlos

[Captain Insano]

that guy looks bout ready to backhand someone.

[Sorina S]

I don't find Gore's indignation about supreme court appointment at all unwarranted. They screwed him bigtime. His problem is easy to understand though. But he has no power to weild so he's become a sideshow, an embarassment for the political left imo. He needs to stfu and go teach history, a place he needs to feel comfortable.

I think Gore's biggest mistake was to distance himself from Clinton after the Lewinsky job. The thing of it was no matter how repugnent you found it, you all pictured yourselves in that same situation. There's just something deeply human about getting your dick sucked, or sucking for our female viewers, that old Al just couldn't get his head around, no pun intended...and we couldn't quite get behind someone so pure, so we elected an ex alcholic reborn drug addict instead...you get what you pay for.

[mofish]

Every time I listen to Gore speak I realize what a giant he is compared to Bush, Cheney, Kerry, Edwards. He shouldve been president.

[Sorina S]

Every time I listen to Gore speak I realize what a giant he is compared to Bush, Cheney, Kerry, Edwards. He shouldve been president.

Nah Mo, they're all just a footnote in history. Sadly we will not live to read that footnote.

[alezrik]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 420-2.html

this is a pretty good link from 2004 from Mr Bush on WireTaps....

So the first thing I want you to think about is, when you hear Patriot Act, is that we changed the law and the bureaucratic mind-set to allow for the sharing of information. It's vital. And others will describe what that means.

Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.

But a roving wiretap means -- it was primarily used for drug lords. A guy, a pretty intelligence drug lord would have a phone, and in old days they could just get a tap on that phone. So guess what he'd do? He'd get him another phone, particularly with the advent of the cell phones. And so he'd start changing cell phones, which made it hard for our DEA types to listen, to run down these guys polluting our streets. And that changed, the law changed on -- roving wiretaps were available for chasing down drug lords. They weren't available for chasing down terrorists, see? And that didn't make any sense in the post-9/11 era. If we couldn't use a tool that we're using against mobsters on terrorists, something needed to happen.

The Patriot Act changed that. So with court order, law enforcement officials can now use what's called roving wiretaps, which will prevent a terrorist from switching cell phones in order to get a message out to one of his buddies


soooo ummmmm yea of course we trust our Government to follow the rules.