Can there be Middle Ground on Abortion?

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Postby Agrajag » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:44 pm

Yamori wrote:the only case where it is (and should) be feasible to make medical decisions for an adult is if they are incompetent and have a legal guardian, or they aren't concious and need emergency decisions.


You know of the procedure called a Vasectomy, Yamori? Did you know that if you want to get one while you are married (if the doctor knows you are, you can lie) you need to notify your wife and get her okay? This is in the military at least. No idea of the rules in the civilian world.

Now, why should a man have to tell his wife if he's having a procedure done on his body? Are you trying to tell me that men are too incompetent to make the decision that they no longer want to have children and need their wife to advise them?

Let me answer that for you. It's called courtesy. Something women have been lacking for too many years. They think that because it is their body that they have the right to decide if I, as a man, am going to (or not going to) have to pay child support. I think it's high time that men have a hand in the decision making of whether a child should or shouldn't be carried to term. If the man says he doesn't want ahything to do with the child, he is free and clear of child support. Plain and simple!

Now you can use the arguement that he did the crime so he must do the time. What about a woman that doesn't want the child but the father does? SHE did the crime. Must she do the time if the father says he wants the child? You see, it works when the mother is the one who wants to keep the child, but not when the father does. You can argue all day that the mother should not be forced to undergo a 9 month incubation period and umteen hours of labor all for the amusement of the father. However, if the roles are reversed and the mother wants the child while the father doesn't, the father is forced to pay support for the child for 18 years! How is that fair?
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Postby Minrott » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:12 pm

spazz wrote: How many adopted kids you got Harrison ? Diekan ? If your not raising one of these unwanted kids that "had the right to live" then your fulla shit.


I am one of these unwanted kids. I think my opinion is warranted.



Boo fucking who pregnancy is painful and traumatic. It's what they were built for, it's a fact of life, and no post modern nancy bullshit is going to change that.
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Postby Lyion » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:40 am

Excerpts below

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185688,00.html

In 2003 the House and the Senate passed a federal law banning partial-birth abortion. When President Bush signed it into law on November 3rd of that same year, he said the following:

“In passing this legislation, members of the House and Senate made a studied decision based upon the compelling evidence. The best case against partial-birth abortion is a simple description of what happens and to whom it happens. It involves the partial delivery of a live boy or girl, and a sudden, violent end of that life. Our nation owes its children a different and better welcome”

• Since then, federal judges in California, Nebraska, and New York have struck down the ban and kept it from taking effect by ruling that it is unconstitutional. The salient argument was the lack of a “health exception” for the mother.

• The Bush administration, led by Solicitor General Paul Clement, has pressed the Supreme Court to reinstate the federal law.

• The case that the Supreme Court accepted today comes from Nebraska, where the ban was challenged on behalf of physicians who contend that it is the safest method of abortion when the mother’s health is threatened by heart disease, high blood pressure or cancer.

FICTITIOUS PATIENTS

The proponents of partial-birth abortion have changed their tune. While it once was defended as part of the broader “right to choose,” it is now touted as an emergency health procedure alone. Why this change? Just google “partial-birth abortion” and you will see. The widely-available graphic images on the internet of what this “procedure” entails have curtailed all effective cheerleading in its favor. Nobody wants to be known as defending a right to choose that! Planned Parenthood and its co-conspirators have elected to play down the scandalous procedure, and to defend a fictitious patient. Who can deny a woman the right to save her own life in a medical emergency where partial-birth abortion is the only solution? It is a tactic that works on an emotional level, but that doesn’t hold water in the doctor’s office. According to most health professionals, this patient doesn’t exist. Dr. Pamela Smith, director of medical education, department of OB-GYN at Mt. Sinai Hospital in Chicago has said this, for example:

“There are absolutely no obstetrical situations encountered in this country which would require partial-birth abortion to preserve the life or health of the mother.”

Is that just academia pontificating? Dr. Bobby Rader spends his days and nights in the emergency room and in family practice, often delivering babies. As I know he is a follower of this blog, I contacted him last night and this is what he had to say:

“I completely agree with Dr. Smith. The uninformed and antiquated argument used to justify partial-birth abortion by trying to get people to believe that a physician has to choose between the life of a mother and the life of a baby hasn’t applied for a long time. Why not try to save the mother and the baby?"
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Postby Snero » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:57 am

Given the fact that there is no cases ever where a partial birth abortion is needed to save the mother, if you allow this concession you could easily pass the ban on partial-birth abortions and it would never happen. All that would be needed is some checks and balances to ensure that people weren't abusing it. Set up some sort of a pier review board for every case this happens.

Giving in on this point would also complete erode any support there is for partial birth abortions in the general public, nobody knowing the process would support this except in the most extreme exceptions (and if these extremes are never met, then partial birth abortions would never take place).
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Postby Gargamellow » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:13 pm

I don't believe in abortion for myself. If the pregnancy was going to kill me, I would have to take my chances. I couldn't live with the guilt.

I think women who have sex and have an abortion to save their career or their body are whores who should be beaten like the stupid whores they are.

Abortion can be necessary some of the time for some of the people who have medical reasons.

There is no grey area. Either you kill babies or you don't. If there is a grey area, then it would be medical reasons.

You have to remember that I had a reasonable choice to abort once and I didn't take it. I stand by my experience. And I love my kid.

p.s. Can I say,"whores", in this forum?
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Postby Darcler » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 pm

Hey guys, did you know that the youngest girl to get pregnant and have a live birth was 5 years old?
Random knowledge.
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Postby Gargamellow » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:39 am

jesus christ... :wtf:
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Postby Spazz » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:58 pm

Yea a 5 year old girl is for sure someone that should be having a child
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Postby Gargamellow » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:23 pm

that is a case where abortyion would be necessary..i wouldn't even think a five year old girl would be able to physically handle sex...i had thought it would kill her...make her bleed to death from the inside and all that
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Postby Darcler » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:44 am

Well apparently not. She had a "normal" pregnancy, delivered via c-section to a healthy boy.
Since she was 5, she had no interest or know-how of being a mother, she rather play with her dolls than her own baby. So they were raised as siblings.

Also, since she was 5, she couldnt give enough of an account of who knocked her up.
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Postby Phlegm » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:01 pm

Did she breast feed the baby?
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Postby araby » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:32 pm

Phlegm wrote:Did she breast feed the baby?


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Postby Gypsiyee » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:36 pm

At 5, how do you even have the necessary supplies to have a baby? Was she menstruating already?
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Postby Darcler » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:57 pm

Yes. There are some cases of kids...well I should say girls... menstrating from the get go.

No, she didnt breast feed.
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Postby Markarado » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:10 am

5 years old... Wow! That's amazing... I had no idea that was even possible.

Like Minrott, I'm also adopted. I'm completely against abortion... In all cases... I don't care if you were raped - have that child. I have a good life. Some people don't. It's not right to take away a chance for someone to have a good life or a life at all for any reason.

Argue all you want. It's murder.
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Postby Spazz » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:25 am

Yea a rapist has the right to attack you knock you up and youd better have that kid cuz even though it is a total product of evil and conceived against your will it still has the right to live. Give me a fucking break. You dont think telling osmeone who was raped they have to carry the child to term is EVIL ?
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Postby Lyion » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:25 am

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Anyway, the morning after pill is a viable option and different. Why would one wait and get an abortion if they were raped? Just take care of it immediately, and there is no issue, and it also doesn't pertain to this discussion.
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Postby Minrott » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:38 pm

Nothing pertains to this discussion when the only argument against adoption is that it is painful to have a baby.

However I agree 100%.
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Postby Sorina S » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:24 pm

Darcler wrote:Hey guys, did you know that the youngest girl to get pregnant and have a live birth was 5 years old?
Random knowledge.


Darc is this something you can substantiate with links to facts or just something some girl told you in gym class the other day?

Oh and Phleg, unbeliveable. And I let Lyion berate me for thinking you guys were imature twits, silly me ><
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Postby Phlegm » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:37 pm

Sorina S wrote:Oh and Phleg, unbeliveable. And I let Lyion berate me for thinking you guys were imature twits, silly me ><


Why? It's a valid question.
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Postby Sorina S » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:39 pm

Phlegm wrote:
Sorina S wrote:Oh and Phleg, unbeliveable. And I let Lyion berate me for thinking you guys were imature twits, silly me ><


Why? It's a valid question.


Yeah, if you're like 12 years old ><

Have you ever seen a 5 year old girl? do you have a sister? niece? Dude, c'mon, stop smokin that crak.
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Postby Darcler » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:41 pm

I'm not in gym class, thankyouverymuch.

http://snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp

That's where I learned of her, then I did my own research using google. I dont have those sites bookmarked or anything.
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Postby Phlegm » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:42 pm

Sorina S wrote:
Phlegm wrote:
Sorina S wrote:Oh and Phleg, unbeliveable. And I let Lyion berate me for thinking you guys were imature twits, silly me ><


Why? It's a valid question.


Yeah, if you're like 12 years old ><



I don't a 12 year old would ask that question... may be a 15 year old one.
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Postby Sorina S » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:47 pm

Phlegm wrote:
Sorina S wrote:
Phlegm wrote:
Sorina S wrote:Oh and Phleg, unbeliveable. And I let Lyion berate me for thinking you guys were imature twits, silly me ><


Why? It's a valid question.


Yeah, if you're like 12 years old ><



I don't a 12 year old would ask that question... may be a 15 year old one.


If a 15 year old thinks a 5 year old girl can lactate there's a serious problem with our educational system...oh never mind it make perfect sense to me now.
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Postby Darcler » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:48 pm

It is actually a valid question.
She had fully developed breasts, but didnt know the know how or mental readiness to do it.
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