Another "new" drug?

[ClakarEQ]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5290545

Caught this NPR show the other day.

Anyone here done this stuff? Care to discuss?

Legal "pot" like drug with "LSD" like effects and a 15min high so they say. I find it more and more difficult to stay up on this shit.

[Harrison]

I've seen what it does to people, and all I have to say is wow.

I won't touch it.

[10sun]

Its not all that new... I remember that stuff from 15 years ago, lots of people having "mint" gardens.

[Arlos]

There's all sorts of hallucinogens you can find in plants that aren't illegal. In the Mojave Desert area you can find one called Sacred Datura, sometimes known as the Peanut Butter Bush, as its flowers smell rather oddly of peanut butter.

It was actually used for a long LONG time by native tribes in the area, who knew when and how to pick it for maximum effect and minimum toxicity. They'd eat the leaves straight, or make tea from them. Pretty strong stuff, actually.

From an encyclopedia entry on the subject:

SACRED DATURA: Nightshade Family [Solanaceae] is found in western Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, southern California, Mexico, and the West Indies and grows within an elevation range between sea level and 6,500 feet. The name Datura, its generic name, is from the Hindu Dhatura (dhat=the eternal essence (of God)), which was derived from the Sanskrit name D'hastura.[1] Sacred Datura bloom at night starting early evening and typically closing around noon the following day. They are pollinated by nocturnal visitors, usually sphinx or hawk moths.

The tea from Datura is extremely hallucinogenic. The hallucinogenic effects are reported to be stronger than Peyote, Psyillicibin, or LSD. However, Datura is also very toxic and can cause permanent psychosis. Solanaceous plants such as Sacred Datura contain relatively high concentrations of tropane alkaloids, primarily Atropine, Hyoscyamine, and Scopolamine, the primary alkaloid being Scopolamine. It is apparently Scopolamine that produces the hallucinogenic effects. It induces an intoxication followed by narcosis in which hallucinations occur during the transition state between consciousness and sleep.

When Datura is used in a Native American ritual, it is always under the guidance of an individual of certain tribal spritual resolve such as a Medicine person or tribal elder. These experts on the use of the plant know what other plants to add in order to neutralize the harmful effects. They also know how much to adminsister and when and where to pick the plants, such as age, season, time of year, whether under a full moon or no moon at all. Chemical constituents and levels vary greatly from plant to plant, time of year, and from one area to another just generally, but especially so if the plants are obtained through ritual or from a spot known for having special powers like the Sun Dagger site on Fajada Butte in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, holy places of some sort such as Vortexes, or sacred grounds. The plants are very toxic, poisonous and lethal, especially if consumed in quanities unmetered by someone not versed in their safe administration. They can, however, when properly dealt with, produce the end result sought after, and quite adequately so, in the spiritual realm.

I know of some people who ate a couple leaves and tripped hardcore, but only heard about it anecdotally, I don't know anyone personally who's tried it themselves. As I recall, besides the listed alkanoids from the encyclopedia, Sacred Datura has its own unique one found nowhere else, Daturine, which may also play a part in the hallucinogenic effects.

-Arlos

[Yamori]

I've tried it lightly (maybe 1/3rd or 1/5th the amount needed to induce a heavy experience), and it really does tap right into the 'dream' portion of the brain. As best as I could describe it, it was like feeling like I had just woken up but was still able to experience dreams (that were still running and going on seperately in my mind). Ie: if I closed my eyes, it was like I was dimly lucid dreaming - with a large degree of conscious awareness. If I opened my eyes, I felt normal.

I've seen people use heavy doses (ie, leaves soaked concentrated salvia extract) - and the stuff literally takes them out of reality for 5-8 minutes or so, followed by maybe a 3-5 minute cool-down, then they are relatively back to normal. The nature of it seems to be very different for different people ranging from sensory to 'spiritual' (ie dreamlike) to psychological, but it seems like most people are extremely subdued and basically oblivious to their physical environment during the short duration of the effects.

I think the drug's standing should remain as is. It really isn't that abusable.

Most people who try it never try it again, and those who do - do it quite sparingly - it's intense. The experience is almost entirely mental - there is little or no euphoric effect. It seems the experience is heavy, intense, profound, and potentially frightening - not entertaining or pleasurable. I've never heard of anyone going "woohoooo! what a rush!" after the experience of a large dose - almost everyone is quite shaken.

It's probably the safest (due to its short duration) available drug for extremely intense psychological experience/exploration, and as such it is a valuable tool.

Its main danger is that people can literally be unaware of their physical environment for those few minutes after initially taking it, and there is a risk that they could injure themselves if they get up and move around (ie, falling down stairs, ect). It's practically a prerequisite for this drug that you have someone watch you if you take a heavy dose. However, because of the short duration it doesn't pose very much risk if handled even quasi-responsibly.

[mappatazee]

Doesn't sound like a pleasant high, probably won't try it. Sounds similar to DMT in that you are OUT of it.

In other words, if the dose is strong enough, users take an instantaneous trip to another time and place, an experience many first-time users of salvia find too intense, disturbing and even frightening. Those who try salvia often don't like it and won't try it again.

Yeahh, not my thing-- I haven't done hallucinogens since I had a bad trip on shrooms over 3 years ago. Right now I do have some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds which contain LSA; I plan on trying soon. LSA is also in Morninglory seeds, both of these you can buy legally.

[Arlos]

I have never had a good experience with LSD, ever, with 1 lone sole exception where it was taken with ecstasy at the same time. Shrooms I haven't done in, oh, 5+ years, in large part cause the crash afterward is incredibly annoying, on top of my tendency to get depressed while on them, and not have a good time. Basically, I've given up on most all hallcinogens, with the exception of 1 that is almost impossible to find, 2CB. Now that's excellent stuff, look up info on it at Http://www.hyperreal.org if you're interested, but it is insanely hard to find.

-Arlos

[araby]

People here always talk about their experiences with shrooms and acid, or other LSD experiences but I've never seen anyone do it or done them myself. Though, we did get a bunk bag of shrooms once. I just don't think that stuff comes through here much. I know it's something I always thought would be fun to try but I'd probably lock myself in a room and wake up in the fetal position in a corner.

[Arlos]

If you're going to try it, I cannot recommend strongly enough that you do it with friends around, preferably supportive ones that have either done it themselves or are not taking any. Don't do it with the kind of friends who are liable to tease you or mess with your head while you're messed up, as that can be a very very very bad thing. Also, don't take them if you're feeling even somewhat depressed before taking them, or there's shit goign on in your life that's been bothering you, as you WILL think about it and fixate on it if you're not careful.

One good way to experience 'em for the first time is to either do them outdoors when you're camping, though that can be a bit overwhelming, or to do it and then watch some movies. Do NOT watch anything dark and disturbing, like The Wall or something, watch something visually interesting and upbeat. I always liked watching Yellow Submarine on shrooms, since it was all kinda psychadelic anyway, and was relentlessly happy.

Dunno if you smoke pot or not, but that can help smooth out the jagged edges of the hallucinogens as well. Shrooms doesn't need it so much, but LSD sure as hell does. Honestly, I wouldn't try LSD first, unless you know you're getting primo stuff, it's much harsher and can screw you up worse. Shrooms are a lot more mellow, and have a much more gradual build-up and let down. Just be prepared to not be able to sleep, to have major major diarrhea the next day, and to feel half-dead for the day after you take 'em. Maybe not quite that bad the first few tiems you do 'em, and if you're younger.

In any case, read up on 'em and be careful before you try anything new.

-Arlos

[Minrott]

I stay as far away from anything hallucinogenic as I possibly can. I was on meds once when I was younger that made me feel like what Yamori described, but not quite as intense. I felt like everything was an ongoing dream and if I allowed myself to slip out of concentration on the real world for a second, I'd start seeing things. The things I saw were never really depictable or tangible but were enough to scare me so badly that I quit taking the medication and swore off the fleeting thoughts I'd had about joining some friends in other hallucinogenic venues.

[Arlos]

Aye, you need to be more careful about Hallucinogens than just about any other drug. Addiction is one thing, but bad events with hallucinogenic drugs can completely screw you over mentally. That's why I suggest researching as much as you can before youd ecide to do any, and set yourself up for the best possible experience when/if you do end up doing them. They can be incredibly powerful, and on good experiences can give you some pretty profound insights into yourself, but that very power is also why they're a huge risk. That's why I sounded such a note of caution to Araby and in many ways argued against her using them. Don't, unless you're damn sure. I personally haven't been damn sure in a long time, which is why I've stayed completely away from them.

As I said before, 2CB is something of an exception, if you can find it. It is quite strong, but there's something about that particular compound that also acts as a mood-upper, so it's almost impossible to end up with a bad trip on it. Most hallucinogens just throw back your shackles to reality, and your subconscious gets to run riot. If you've got a lot of negativity built up, you're risking a really awful experience. With 2CB, it first makes you happy and relaxed, then it gently lifts back the veil, and you sit there going "Oooh, look at the pretty colors and shapes..." Or, at least, that's how it effects me, I do have friends who have had bad experiences with it, so take my experience with large grain of salt and do your own research.

-Arlos

[Spazz]

Mushrooms by myself i think are a blast but i cant really handle bein around other people.Anyone else that way ? I know a guy ate a bunch of shrooms at work and was havin the best day ever. I dont know how he pulled it off.

[Yamori]

I stay as far away from anything hallucinogenic as I possibly can. I was on meds once when I was younger that made me feel like what Yamori described, but not quite as intense. I felt like everything was an ongoing dream and if I allowed myself to slip out of concentration on the real world for a second, I'd start seeing things.

Hmm - it wasn't quite like that (though I know what you are describing). It was more like feeling like you had just woken up, but your sleep-dreams were still going on inside your mind: and if you closed your eyes you could see and experience your dreams dimly (ie, not as vividly as pure dream experience, but still very specific and detailed), and you had much more conscious awareness of it (as opposed to the usual dream experience of being completely immersed in it). So it wasn't that actual sensory experience felt like a dream - much more like both reality and dream were being processed in your mind and you could move your awareness to the latter by closing your eyes.

-

And yeah, if you are going to use doses of Salvia large enough to induce strong experiences, a 'trip sitter' is definitely required.

And again, it definitely isn't a 'recreation' drug - but it is a very valuable tool for spiritual purposes and self exploration, and it would be a shame to have it illegalized as it poses practically no threat to society or long term threat to individuals (ie, making a habbit or addiction of it is extremely unlikely).


-

FUN FACT: Speaking of potent drugs that are easily available and not illegal, try drinking 1 1/2 bottles of cough syrup! You'll be surprised at the results! The main ingredient in cough syrup (DXM) is chemically a cousin of PCP. Again, like Salvia, it isn't a pleasant experience - but very intense and valuable for self exploration.

(PS: if you actually try doing this, be sure that you check the ingredients and only get bottles with pure DXM as the main ingredient: other syrups have other ingredients that can make you puke like hell or die if you take too much of them!)

FUN FACT: Morning Glory Seeds (a common flower), taken in sufficient amount, create experiences highly similar to one hit of acid!

-

PSS: don't do drugs, they are bad! I don't do such things anymore and you shouldn't either!

[Yamori]

Mushrooms by myself i think are a blast but i cant really handle bein around other people.Anyone else that way ? I know a guy ate a bunch of shrooms at work and was havin the best day ever. I dont know how he pulled it off.

Never did mushrooms, but yeah, I was very much like that when I did such things. Other people made it unpleasant and uncomfortable.

[Harrison]

Mushrooms by myself i think are a blast but i cant really handle bein around other people.Anyone else that way ? I know a guy ate a bunch of shrooms at work and was havin the best day ever. I dont know how he pulled it off.

Haven't taken shrooms in such a long time now. Hands-down my favorite drug if I had to choose one.

Fuck being in public...I prefer my enormous yard.

[Harrison]

I disagree with the whole "negativity = bad trip" view

Some people let shit bring them down, and some don't.

I don't.

[10sun]

Best trip I ever had was laying on my back watching the stars in an area with no light pollution with half a dozen friends...

I felt like I was free from my body and I could move around and visit inside my friend's bodies and know what they were thinking.

Trying to setup another "vacation" this June like that.

[Spazz]

My favortie trip i had to put my gun and bullets in the other room far from each other cuz i thought they were conspiring to get me for goin hunting. When i tell people bout how i feel trippin they tell me it sounds like an anti drug commercial

[Tuggan]

trippin and deliverin pizza is a good time to be had. those things were killer.

THE TREES LOOK REALLY WEIRD MAN.

[Arlos]

It's true that everyone reacts differently to hallucinogens. For example, I never in my life have gone to the point of seeing stuff that isn't there. Mostly what I get is a situation where it looks like I'm seeing everything thourh a thick shimmering haze, and I see a halo around stuff, especially light sources, and sometimes everything looks a lot more pastel in color. Meanwhile, I have a friend who, on the same substances, can literally see forest dragons coming out of the trees, etc.

The ultimate point I still want to make, though, is that if you intend on trying any hallucinogen, be very very careful before you do it. If you've never done them before, and don't know how your body is going to react, give yourself the best possible chance for a good experience by being in a really good mood, and make sure you'll have plenty of visual stuff to distract you from overly morbid introspection. Also, make sure to research as much as you can about whatever it is you're going to take first, so you know how long it lasts, among other things, so should things go wrong and you DO have a bad trip, you can know to a good degree when you'll be able to get out of it.

Of course, one thing hallucinogens screw with big time is your sense of time flow, so that 4-6 hours may seem like a hell of a lot longer, but there's no getting around that. heh. I remember one time I did them at a friend's place, had a good time, and I thought it was like 5am already. So, since it's spring and reasonably warm outside, I got up and went and sat in one of his lawn recliners and figured I'd wait for the sunrise. Not long after, my friend, who was just as high as I was, came out and asked me WTF I was doing. I told him, he said WTF, it's not even midnight, and proceeded to go in and get the phone, called the time lady, and made me listen to it. It was like 11:52pm. So much for waiting for sunrise.

-Arlos

[dammuzis]

only time i tried lsd was at a grateful dead concert... i spent the entire evening laughing hysterically at the jolly fatman playing guitar....

i miss jerry

[Arlos]

Grateful Dead was a good show, indeed. Only went once, but i'm glad I did. Didn't take acid for it, but it definitely would've been a good, supportive environment for doing so.

-Arlos

[runamonk]

Best trip I ever had was laying on my back watching the stars in an area with no light pollution with half a dozen friends...

I felt like I was free from my body and I could move around and visit inside my friend's bodies and know what they were thinking.

Trying to setup another "vacation" this June like that.

That's exactly what we did on acid. We actually laid on the hood of my car (huge ford montego at the time, hood like a foodball field haha) and just laughed, bs'd about the stars and stuff.

We also played some basketball for a short while but the floating court lines were too crazy.