Jews for Jesus

[Zanchief]

Back then there was a lot more oxygen in the air. This caused everything to grow larger and live longer.

oh boy...

[Donnel]

Donnel, you never did answer my question as to how you think all of the geologic evidence that exists points to a 6000 year old world instead of one about 4-5 BILLION years old.

-Arlos

I know.

[Arlos]

Back then there was a lot more oxygen in the air. This caused everything to grow larger and live longer.

There's *ZERO* evidence for this, at least within the last 10,000 years.

Markarado, you've heard of Greenland, yes? You've heard of the greenland Ice cap, yes?

Well, to repeat something I've said elsewhere: We can get cores of that ice cap quite easily with drills. When you look at those cores, you can see layers in the ice, that are basically exactly like tree rings; you get 1 layer ever year, that marks that year's snowfall. We can cross-check to prove that by matching up layers with world events. Like, say, you can count layers back to the 1980 layer, and find Mount St. Helens ash in that ONE layer (with minor amounts in a couple following layers from the residual ash still remaining, but it's obvious that that one layer is where most of it is trapped) There are other cross-check markers we can use from other known volcanic eruptions, etc.

So, I am assuming you're with me now on our ability to look at layers of ice and figure out how many years back that ice was deposited, correct? Good.

Now, What happens when snow falls onto the ground, does it all form a perfectly flat layer directly on the ground? No, of course not. As the snow falls, there are tiny nooks and crannies between the snowflakes where little pockets of air are captured, yes? Well, guess what, that air is still there even when the next year's layer is deposited, and ace it gets compressed down into ice, those air bubbles are trapped in the ice and remain there, forever.

So yes, that's right, we have, trapped in ice, actual bubbles of air that have been untouched for tens and even hundreds of thousands of years.

So, what we do, is we use drills, and drill down into the ice, and pull out big long tubes of ice, about as wide around as a coffee can, and often several hundred feet long by the time you're done, that're all cut into 10-11' lengths.

Then, they take those sections back to a lab for examination. Smaller sections are cut out of the cores, and are placed in a vacuum chamber, with no other atmosphere in it, and then the smaller slices of core are further sliced while they're within the chamber, releasing the air trapped in those bubbles into the chamber, where we can analyze the gas content. Yes, that's right, we can know almost exactly what the concentrations of gasses were in the atmosphere going back a hundred thousand years.

Guess what, at no time during any period of time in which Hom Sapiens have been around has the oxygen content been vastly higher than it is today. Not to mention, did you know that in sufficient concentrations, oxygen becomes toxic to us? From all of our best scientific information, if we could travel in time back to 100+ million years ago, when the earth was its hottest, wettest, and had the most vegetation, we couldn't have breathed the air for that very reason, that amount of oxygen would've killed us to breathe it.

-Arlos

[Donnel]

Oxygen elevation is not the universally accepted reasoning for longer lives.

[Tikker]

Tikker I don't know where you get your info from, but I don't know any creationists who think the world is EXACTLY 4004 years or EXACTLY any other number of years old.

And no we don't assume everyone died on their birthday. If genealogies are used there is obviously a margin of error. but at the most it could only be 11 months * the number of steps in the chain right? So somewhere between 100 and maybe 300 years difference.

http://www.bible.ca/b-bible-chronology-willis.htm
just quickly googled and found this one

[Donnel]

That article says very plainly:

The Bible and the Age of the Earth

Does the Bible tell how old the earth is? Yes and no. The answer is, "No," if one wants a specific age of the earth. Nowhere does the Bible say that the earth is "x" years old in the same way that it says Jesus was in the tomb for three days (Matt. 12:40), the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years (Num. 14:33), and there were 480 years from the time of the Exodus to Solomon’s fourth year (1 Kings 6:1).

However, the answer is, "Yes," if one means does the Bible given an approximate age of the earth. Certainly the Bible records the history of man from the creation and is very careful to put this in a chronological framework. There are very definite limits on what the framework of Bible history will tolerate and, in this sense, the Bible does define the age of the earth.

[Arlos]

Oh, I'm aware there's other theories. Hell, there's even a theory mentioned in the Science Fiction book, Snow Crash (which is an AWESOME book, btw). I was refuting the theory HE mentioned.

-Arlos

[Tikker]

That article says very plainly:

The Bible and the Age of the Earth

Does the Bible tell how old the earth is? Yes and no. The answer is, "No," if one wants a specific age of the earth. Nowhere does the Bible say that the earth is "x" years old in the same way that it says Jesus was in the tomb for three days (Matt. 12:40), the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years (Num. 14:33), and there were 480 years from the time of the Exodus to Solomon’s fourth year (1 Kings 6:1).

However, the answer is, "Yes," if one means does the Bible given an approximate age of the earth. Certainly the Bible records the history of man from the creation and is very careful to put this in a chronological framework. There are very definite limits on what the framework of Bible history will tolerate and, in this sense, the Bible does define the age of the earth.

you need to keep reading

they get into where the 4004bc number comes from

[Darcler]

I think people in the Old Testament "lived longer" because they were using a different calendar, shorter years means you "live longer".
I think as new Roman Kings took over, they developed new calendars, which may be why the lives in the Bible shortened.

It makes sense

[Narrock]

No, their calendar was the same as ours Darcler.

http://www.360calendar.com/

[Tikker]

I think people in the Old Testament "lived longer" because they were using a different calendar, shorter years means you "live longer".
I think as new Roman Kings took over, they developed new calendars, which may be why the lives in the Bible shortened.

It makes sense

not really

year has pretty much always been defined as the time it takes to get from summer to summer, or 2 equinox, etc (ie, solar events)

[Ganzo]

Old Testament is not litteral, so counting dates from it, especialy from Genesis wich speaks almoust exclusively in parables, is just silly.

[Darcler]

Your baby is too cute.

[Thon]

Old Testament is not litteral, so counting dates from it, especialy from Genesis wich speaks almoust exclusively in parables, is just silly.

QFT

btw, what does that hebrew in your sig say

[Ganzo]

And God said, Let there be Light

[dammuzis]

the major problem with the ice core theory from ice caps is it is assumed that its 1 layer = 1 year

this is definitly not true

if it was im wondering how those wwii planes were found under 20 feet of ice

[Adivina]

And God said, Let there be Light

Coupled with the picture of your child that just makes me smile uncontrollably. Life is an amazing thing!

[Tikker]

Old Testament is not litteral, so counting dates from it, especialy from Genesis wich speaks almoust exclusively in parables, is just silly.

guess you need to help most christians understand that

[Ganzo]

Old Testament is not litteral, so counting dates from it, especialy from Genesis wich speaks almoust exclusively in parables, is just silly.

guess you need to help most christians understand that

" To change the world, first change yourself "

[Tikker]

oook

[Ganzo]

you said i need to change their minds, i replied that i'm working on changing mine

[Gidan]

the major problem with the ice core theory from ice caps is it is assumed that its 1 layer = 1 year

this is definitly not true

if it was im wondering how those wwii planes were found under 20 feet of ice

In certain places in the world, 1 layer = 1 year. The layers of ice are formed from the compacted layers of snow that fell during the year. Layers also very in depth.