Iraq war has increased terror risk, fed report says.

[kiral]

You people are getting all your hopes up for ?

[Harrison]

Our biggest fuck-up was not properly rebuilding and planning for an extended stay.

We also didn't foresee a massive influx of foreign terrorists and aid.

[Evermore]

Our biggest fuck-up was not properly rebuilding and planning for an extended stay.

We also didn't foresee a massive influx of foreign terrorists and aid.

Our biggest fuck up was going there in the first place

[Spazz]

I dont know bout you harri but i NEW from the get go that we were gonna get stuck there and that a buncha jihidists from other countries would join the fray. Maybe i should be an advisor.

[Diekan]

Our biggest fuck-up was not properly rebuilding and planning for an extended stay.

We also didn't foresee a massive influx of foreign terrorists and aid.

Our biggest fuck up was going there in the first place

hahaha.... BOOM! There it is.

[Harrison]

Hardly

[Lueyen]

Apparently someone forgot to tell the terrorists that US actions in Iraq have nothing to do with terrorisim.

[Gidan]

As far as they are concerned, we are attacking that in which they beleive most deeply in, their religion. Anyone who thinks they wouldn't be a bit upset about this is nuts.

[Zanchief]

Apparently someone forgot to tell the terrorists that US actions in Iraq have nothing to do with terrorisim.

Well since the terrorists don't identify themselves with that moniker, I don't see how your comment is relevant.

[Gargamellow]

I just saw Bush state on CNN that they are going to publicize portions of this report. I think it is the same report. I don't know, though. Look into it if you are a political person.

I don't know what to believe, but I was laughing when Clinton said,"I was closer to killing Bin Laden!"

Man..hilarious.

[Lueyen]

As far as they are concerned, we are attacking that in which they beleive most deeply in, their religion. Anyone who thinks they wouldn't be a bit upset about this is nuts.

A bit upset, like fanatics got a bit upset over cartoons, like they got a bit upset over the pope quoting someone else. In their being a bit upset they decided that the attacks on what they believe most deeply necessitated death to the offenders. No it's no surprise that Iraq has them a bit upset, they've gotten upset over far far less. Unlike civilized men however terrorists only have one response to something they don't like, there is no proportional response, it is always to the extreme, kill those whose views you don't like. Were it not Iraq it would be our support for Israel, were it not for that it would be something else. Terrorists demand we kiss their asses and step on pins and needles not to offend in the hope that they won't deem something we do offensive and choose the only response they see viable, the death of people as retribution. The surprising "revelation" from this document shouldn't be that terrorists hate us more and want to get at us even more (when at war with an enemy doing things that aren't popular with your enemy is a foregone conclusion), the really interesting aspect of this report is that it point out that regardless of how we got there Iraq is now a major front on the war on terror, the success or failure of which will have a fairly major impact on the capability and support of terrorist organizations. In expressing concerns about splinter groups created when we take out leadership, it shows we are effectively dividing centralized cohesive leadership. While that may mean more fronts to watch, it also shows we are breaking apart and weakening our enemy.. traditionally a major step toward beating an enemy.

Apparently someone forgot to tell the terrorists that US actions in Iraq have nothing to do with terrorisim.

Well since the terrorists don't identify themselves with that moniker, I don't see how your comment is relevant.

No I suppose the relevance would escape you.

[Zanchief]

Blowing up soldiers and military personnel in Iraq isn't really terrorism, since it is technically a time of war. You may consider it unethical means of combat, but they are trying to defend something they believe in, even if they're horribly misguided.

[Evermore]

Hardly

Totally.


Zan while i agree with that statement, there is an issue with it. They are blowing up civilians as well.

[Zanchief]

Hardly

Totally.


Zan while i agree with that statement, there is an issue with it. They are blowing up civilians as well.

True, some do target civilians but that is the minority. For the most part the insurgents are targeting soldiers or Iraqi police forces.

[Gargamellow]

The reason they were upset at the Pope is because he chose a quote that was totally judgemental and out of line. Then the Pope said that he was only quoting someone. Well, BULLSHIT. You don't quote unless you are attempting to express the same point.

My favorite quote: "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."

[DESX]

Fight fanatics with fanatics...thats why I support jesus camps!

[Lueyen]

The reason they were upset at the Pope is because he chose a quote that was totally judgemental and out of line. Then the Pope said that he was only quoting someone. Well, BULLSHIT. You don't quote unless you are attempting to express the same point.

It is blatantly obvious to me that you have not heard the speech nor read a transcript of it, or if you have you failed miserably in understanding of the discourse (I suspect it is the former). The Pope was even critical of the quote characterizing it as abrupt and discourteous. The quote it's self was not used to support or validate his thoughts on the subject he chose, but merely as a point of reference of what sparked is initial reflections on the subject matter.

Regardless, even if the Pope had given a highly critical outrageous and offensive attack on Islam in his speech, I still do not feel the responses by some in the murder of nuns is a reasonable proportionate response. That these murders were done under false pretenses and mischaracterizations such as those demonstrated by your ignorant critique make those actions that much more outrageous and tragic.

[Lueyen]

Blowing up soldiers and military personnel in Iraq isn't really terrorism, since it is technically a time of war. You may consider it unethical means of combat, but they are trying to defend something they believe in, even if they're horribly misguided.

Good point. No I wouldn't consider the actions of insurgents for the most part unethical or terrorist acts. My concern is that if these people identify themselves with terrorist organizations and would continue to do so after the conflict has ended then they need to be dealt with now and neutralized. This could take the form of death, destruction of resolve, or change of heart/ideology. Obviously the last would be preferable, but I fear it's an unrealistic expectation in the vast majority of cases.

Even if we were to remove every single hint of military force from the country tomorrow, I think terrorist organizations would still blame us for the inevitable chaos that would result (and frankly not without some credence), and use that to bolster support.

The former Iraqi citizen that I talked to shortly after the onset had very accurate insight and fears, that it would be like opening up a sewer pipe and not being able to close it fast enough to keep the shit off ourselves due to the speed at which the sewage welled up.

[Arlos]

Well, a recent poll of Iraqis showed that almost 75% of them would like US forces to be gone within 1 year. Also, they indicated that one of the larger driving forces for the insurgency is the fear that the US plans to leave permanent military bases in Iraq. That last I can understand; we've certainly given no indication so far of ANY plans to leave, and if you're patriotic and/or nationalistic enough, you're going to resent the long-term presence of foreign forces, period, regardless of whether or not you'd go on hating them if they did leave. Even if someone felt grateful for us removing Saddam doesn't in any way mean they'd welcome a permanent occupation with open arms.

The Iraqi government has been saying more and more that it wants to take over more and more responsibilities as well. So, when 3/4 of a country's populace wants us to go, perhaps it's time we listened, and started phasing back operations. Hell, have an official national referendum on the issue, with a national vote of "US Military, stay for 1 year or leave by that 1 year point". That would certainly settle the question one way or the other. If a majority want us to stay, then Bush would have a club to get war dissenters to step back. If a majority wants us to leave, they'd have a perfect excuse to get out without losing face. "We were following the will of the people, as expressed through their new flourishing democracy", etc.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

I can see it now.

We leave intentionally and terrorists claim a victory over western oppression on Islam.

[Gargamellow]

Lue..you traitor...we went over it in my ethnic sociology class so fuck you and the horse you rode in on

[Narrock]

Arlos sensationalized:

Well, a recent poll of Iraqis showed that almost 75% of them would like US forces to be gone within 1 year.

A poll administered by whom? Almost every U.S. soldier coming back from Iraq reported that the people love them there, and are very happy and grateful for our presence there.

[Arlos]

University of Maryland.

Seventy-one percent of Iraqis responding to a new survey favor a commitment by U.S.-led forces in Iraq to withdraw in a year.

The majority of respondents to the University of Maryland poll said that "they would like the Iraqi government to ask for U.S.-led forces to be withdrawn from Iraq within a year or less," according to the survey's summary.

"Given four options, 37 percent take the position that they would like U.S.-led forces withdrawn 'within six months,' while another 34 percent opt for 'gradually withdraw(ing) U.S.-led forces according to a one-year timeline.'

"Twenty percent favor a two-year timeline and just 9 percent favor 'only reduc(ing) U.S.-led forces as the security situation improves in Iraq.'"

The month's poll came in the midst of a turbulent year marked by increased Sunni-Shiite sectarian violence in Baghdad and elsewhere in the nation.

A U.S. commander said Wednesday that suicide attacks in Iraq are rising as the Islamic holy month of Ramadan gets under way.

Majority favor attacks on U.S.

The poll's summary also suggests that most Iraqis think the American presence is doing more harm than good.

"An overwhelming majority believes that the U.S. military presence in Iraq is provoking more conflict than it is preventing and there is growing confidence in the Iraqi army," the summary said. "If the U.S. made a commitment to withdraw, a majority believes that this would strengthen the Iraqi government.

"Support for attacks on U.S.-led forces has grown to a majority position -- now 6 in 10. Support appears to be related to a widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the U.S. government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq."

The WorldPublicOpinion.org poll was conducted September 1-4 by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland. It was fielded by KA Research Ltd./D3 Systems Inc. Questions were asked of a nationwide representative sample of 1,150 Iraqi adults.

The report is at the Program on International Policy Attitudes Web site at: http://www.pipa.org/

The poll comes as lawmakers in Washington wrangle over a bleak National Intelligence Estimate that concludes the Iraq war has become a "cause celebre" for jihadists, who are growing in number and geographic reach.

The intelligence analysts who authored the report said the Iraq insurgency against U.S.-led forces was an "underlying factor" fueling the spread of Islamic radicalism.

Where did you get your reporting on "every US soldier coming back from Iraq", etc? That from people you know who've come back?

-Arlos

[Narrock]

That poll is bullshit. I haven't heard of one single U.S. soldier who came back and said that Iraq wants us out of there. It's time to face the cold, hard facts Arlos. You may not like our presence there, but the majority of Iraqi's do. That is well known.

WASHINGTON — Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi (search) had one big message to deliver from his people to the people of the United States: "Thank you, America."

Some quotes directly from the mouths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq:

"They are very glad we're here," she said. "They're gracious hosts. Every time we come to visit they hug and kiss us, they serve us tea and bread. They thank us for considering them before we even have a chance to help them - for saying 'hey, are you okay? How are you doing?'

"Iraqi civilians fleeing heavy fighting [in central Iraq] have stunned and delighted hungry US marines by giving them food.

"'They had slaughtered lambs and chickens and boiled eggs and potatoes for their journey out of the frontlines,' [a Marine sergeant] said. At one camp, the buses stopped and women passed out food to the troops, who have had to ration their army-issue packets of ready-to-eat meals due to disruptions to supply lines by fierce fighting further south.

"In broken English [an Iraqi] told a correspondent travelling with the marines: 'We like Americans,' adding that no one liked Saddam Hussein because 'he was not kind.'"

I can go on and on. Check out some soldier blogs. I think you will be amazed by what you read, and you will change your mind very quickly, if you have the integrity and balls to leave leftist propaganda out of the picture, and allow the truth to permeate the partisan wall you've built in your mind.

[Arlos]

Some quotes directly from a blog from a mid-20s Iraqi woman living in Baghdad. Is her commentary "leftist propaganda"?:

July 11
It promises to be a long summer. We're almost at the mid-way point, but it feels like the days are just crawling by. It's a combination of the heat, the flies, the hours upon hours of no electricity and the corpses which keep appearing everywhere.

The day before yesterday was catastrophic. The day began with news of the killings in Jihad Quarter. According to people who live there, black-clad militiamen drove in mid-morning and opened fire on people in the streets and even in houses. They began pulling people off the street and checking their ID cards to see if they had Sunni names or Shia names and then the Sunnis were driven away and killed. Some were executed right there in the area. The media is playing it down and claiming 37 dead but the people in the area say the number is nearer 60.

The horrific thing about the killings is that the area had been cut off for nearly two weeks by Ministry of Interior security forces and Americans. Last week, a car bomb was set off in front of a 'Sunni' mosque people in the area visit. The night before the massacre, a car bomb exploded in front of a Shia husseiniya in the same area. The next day was full of screaming and shooting and death for the people in the area. No one is quite sure why the Americans and the Ministry of Interior didn't respond immediately. They just sat by, on the outskirts of the area, and let the massacre happen.

People are staying in their homes in the area and no one dares enter it so the wakes for the people who were massacred haven't begun yet. I haven't seen his family yet and I'm not sure I have the courage or the energy to give condolences. I feel like I've given the traditional words of condolences a thousand times these last few months, "Baqiya ib hayatkum… Akhir il ahzan…" or "May this be the last of your sorrows." Except they are empty words because even as we say them, we know that in today's Iraq any sorrow- no matter how great- will not be the last.

There was also an attack yesterday on Ghazaliya though we haven't heard what the casualties are. People are saying it's Sadr's militia, the Mahdi army, behind the killings. The news the world hears about Iraq and the situation in the country itself are wholly different. People are being driven out of their homes and areas by force and killed in the streets, and the Americans, Iranians and the Puppets talk of national conferences and progress.

It's like Baghdad is no longer one city, it's a dozen different smaller cities each infected with its own form of violence. It's gotten so that I dread sleeping because the morning always brings so much bad news. The television shows the images and the radio stations broadcast it. The newspapers show images of corpses and angry words jump out at you from their pages, "civil war… death… killing… bombing… rape…"

Rape. The latest of American atrocities. Though it's not really the latest- it's just the one that's being publicized the most. The poor girl Abeer was neither the first to be raped by American troops, nor will she be the last. The only reason this rape was brought to light and publicized is that her whole immediate family were killed along with her. Rape is a taboo subject in Iraq. Families don't report rapes here, they avenge them. We've been hearing whisperings about rapes in American-controlled prisons and during sieges of towns like Haditha and Samarra for the last three years. The naiveté of Americans who can't believe their 'heroes' are committing such atrocities is ridiculous. Who ever heard of an occupying army committing rape??? You raped the country, why not the people?

In the news they're estimating her age to be around 24, but Iraqis from the area say she was only 14. Fourteen. Imagine your 14-year-old sister or your 14-year-old daughter. Imagine her being gang-raped by a group of psychopaths and then the girl was killed and her body burned to cover up the rape. Finally, her parents and her five-year-old sister were also killed. Hail the American heroes... Raise your heads high supporters of the 'liberation' - your troops have made you proud today. I don't believe the troops should be tried in American courts. I believe they should be handed over to the people in the area and only then will justice be properly served. And our ass of a PM, Nouri Al-Maliki, is requesting an 'independent investigation', ensconced safely in his American guarded compound because it wasn't his daughter or sister who was raped, probably tortured and killed. His family is abroad safe from the hands of furious Iraqis and psychotic American troops.

It fills me with rage to hear about it and read about it. The pity I once had for foreign troops in Iraq is gone. It's been eradicated by the atrocities in Abu Ghraib, the deaths in Haditha and the latest news of rapes and killings. I look at them in their armored vehicles and to be honest- I can't bring myself to care whether they are 19 or 39. I can't bring myself to care if they make it back home alive. I can't bring myself to care anymore about the wife or parents or children they left behind. I can't bring myself to care because it's difficult to see beyond the horrors. I look at them and wonder just how many innocents they killed and how many more they'll kill before they go home. How many more young Iraqi girls will they rape?

Why don't the Americans just go home? They've done enough damage and we hear talk of how things will fall apart in Iraq if they 'cut and run', but the fact is that they aren't doing anything right now. How much worse can it get? People are being killed in the streets and in their own homes- what's being done about it? Nothing. It's convenient for them- Iraqis can kill each other and they can sit by and watch the bloodshed- unless they want to join in with murder and rape.

Buses, planes and taxis leaving the country for Syria and Jordan are booked solid until the end of the summer. People are picking up and leaving en masse and most of them are planning to remain outside of the country. Life here has become unbearable because it's no longer a 'life' like people live abroad. It's simply a matter of survival, making it from one day to the next in one piece and coping with the loss of loved ones and friends

Hardly seems to be universal approbation by the average Iraqi resident, yes? I am sure some want us there. I ams ure even some of those who voted for us to leave were glad we came. But no one with any pride in their home country would want to have soldiers of another nation occupying their country in perpetuity.

You can find people on both sides of the issue if you want to look. I am more than willing to accept the fact that there are numbers of people there who want us there. Are YOU prepared to accept the fact that there may well be as many or MORE who do not?

The life of the average Iraqi is in many ways worse than it was before we came there: Unemployment is several times higher, water and electricity are intermittent at best, there are death squads abducting, torturing & killing people by the hundreds, Iran-following shiite militias run large portions of Baghdad and make life hell for anyone not folowing strict sharia law, especially women they see going to school, working, not wearing a head scarf, etc. They have jewelry stolen by Iraqi armed forces doing house searches, have friends slaughtered int he street, have others just disappear in the middle of the night to noone-knows-where...

Nevertheless, as I said, I am indeed willing to accept your reports that many of the populace want us there. YOU need to have the "integrity and balls to leave right-wing propaganda out of the picture, and allow the partisan wall you've built in your mind" regarding the fact that at LEAST as many do NOT want us there.

-Arlos