Calling out Taxx.....

[xKALECx]

Got a question for you about Rogues.

I've got a 60 'lock/hunter/druid on Garona pve, that are collecting dust. All my friends left and went to Jaedenar pvp.

On Jaedenar's release I made a rogue. Only 30'ish atm, but I am going back to that server to play. Most of my experience is with my 'lock/druid. With yesterdays patch, Locks were given a huge buff which I see being nerfed in the near future. That brings me to my rogue.

I debated rerolling another 'lock on the pvp server, but now I'm sure they will be a dime a dozen. I honestly enjoy the rogue so far, but after reading multiple forums since yesterdays patch, nearly everybody is crying.

Do you think that rogues will more than likely receive all their current BC beta talents come release? Do you think they are still a valuable class for end game pvp/pve? Just wanted your take since yesterday's patch.

[Tacks]

I'll answer this after I get to play some tonight. Our server was pretty much unplayable last night.

[xKALECx]

Cool, thanks for the reply.

[Eldred]

Pvp rogues are gimped, yeah we can gank the unsuspecting but in BG's and the like forget it, every class has something to counter what we bring to the table.

PvE rogues are still one of the best dps classes in the game, as sword spec I can still out dps most well geared Fury War's.

[Shneider]

Obviously I'm not on a PvP server, but I'll toss in my two cents on the new demonology locks: bottom line they're an extremely versatile and powerful class. The tree has slimmed down, which gives many locks the opportunity to pick up a lot of the passive and stackable +pet/player dmg talents which generate a lot of synergy towards the end of the tree. The good news is (at least until the expansion is released) if a lock has a felguard, [s]he won't have Empowered Corruption. The bad news is, it's not really needed. If they went ahead and stacked everything demonology they'll have some impressive physical and spell damage mitigation. Felguard stun + fear + deathcoil = goodnight.

Rogues from a novice's perspective: PvP-wise subtlety grants a lot insofar as survivability, but your DPS will probably suffer. Though with the patch Imp. Slice and Dice and Backstab were moved to tier 2 making Cloak of Shadows something that won't completely ruin you if you invest 10 points in either Combat or Assassination.

Rogues will always have a niche whether on offense or defense with either stun locks or burst DPS for the surgical strike on the unprepared or the sap stealth node cap.

[Tacks]

Well basically if you want to own stuff right now, play the Warlock. They're unbelievably overpowered right now.

As far as Rogue goes. If you plan on playing a lot of WSG or to do defense in AB then go for it. I'm not so sure Rogues will get Shadowstep in its current form, everything else we will be getting for sure and I'd be surprised if some of them aren't buffed a bit. Preperation got a small nerf and don't work with stuff like Blind and Cloak of Shadows. If you're going to play seriously you should be able to get to 60 before the expansion with your rogue and at least get 2 HWL weapons and possibly a few pieces of Warlords/General gear depending how much you play. Right now in the grand scheme of PVP Rogues are pretty weak. EVERYONE has a counter for us and our survivability is horrible. If you're going to play seriously, run with people you believe will heal you. That's why I love playing with Insanityfair, I know if I'm in trouble that I'll get a heal and she knows that if she's getting jumped that I'll own whoever's face is attacking her. Find yourself a healer partner.

As far as specs go, I toyed around with Subtlety, Seal Fate ambush and Mutilate. I'm strictly a dagger user. While Subtlety gives you a bit more survivability it's just not for me. The damage is pretty weak compared to every other tree. Right now I'm using a Mutilate build that I'm really liking. The CP generation is simply insane, nothing else comes close. The only downside is the reliance on poison procs but it's really not been an issue for me. I'd say a good 90% of the people I'm attacking get poisoned within the first 2 seconds. Once the Wound Poison fix is in, this will be even nicer because right now you have to use either crippling or deadly and deadly sucks if you're in a 1 on 1 fight and need that gouge to generate some energy or to restealth.

The plus side is that once we finally get the TBC talent revamp that things will look better. Right now our talent trees are playing off a 2 month old build while every other class go the newest revision. Once you get to level 63 and can combine Initiative with the Mutilate build you'll have 5 CP's 99% of the time after a cheapshot opener. Cheapshot 3 CP 75% of the time plus guaranteed Mutilate of 2 CP. If Cheapshot only gives 2 CP you still have a chance at getting 3 CP from Mutilate. Only ONE of your Mutilate attacks has to crit for seal fate to activate your extra CP. Throw in a kidney shot and you're going to have +19% damage on them till it wears off and most likely going to get a CP back (and possibly 25 energy) from Ruthless/Relentless. Like I said, it's crazy CP generation with still decent damage. It's not THE top damage build, Combat Daggers will still win but everyone knows that it sucks for the pvp game.

I'm pretty happy with being able to actually be a little more viable in pvp after using Combat Daggers for the past year.


If you're going for the long term, play the rogue. We will get better. If you're looking for instant gratification then play the Warlock. Either way, you've got almot 2 months to gear up with the almost giveaway PVP rewards. If you want tree spec examples let me know what you're looking to do and I can set one up for you.

[Tuggan]

which spec do you think is way overpowered on the warlock?

all i know is ive seen about 5000 fucking felguards running around, but havent really had too many problems with them.

[Gaazy]

lol jesus i looked at the WoW rogue forums and like every thread is wah wah wah. I havent had a chance to really play much this week, is it really that fucking bad that everyone is crying about it? People are saying oh noez we are worthless now we suck now oh noez

[Tacks]

Compared to everyone else, yes it's that bad. Compared to a year ago, no.

[Gaazy]

eh i'll make due

[Tacks]

I'm not going to stop playing mine, just makes it more challenging.

Though I have a shadowpriest too. Was messing around with people fighting naked and winning about 90% of the time. If anything, they need a big nerf except they just got a lot more powerful.

[Gaazy]

yeah im not quitting mine either, if anything just because im too lazy to reroll another class

[Hylissa]

All locks in my guild went pretty much total affliction this patch - all of us were demon sac specced previously.

In AV last night, just ran around casting siphon life, corruption and curse of agony on everyone in sight ... could stand under AE and live ... was sweet!

One key macro FTW~ :
/castsequence reset=combat/target Siphon Life, Corruption, Curse of Agony

first click casts SL, second click casts corruption, 3rd casts CoA. If you leave combat or change targets the key resets back to the begining. Of course after CoA casts it resets back to the start too.

[Tacks]

must be really difficult and take a lot of talent...

[Hylissa]

must be really difficult and take a lot of talent...

like zerg PVP takes talent from anyone ~

Takes lots of talent to stealth and wait for players to be low health and gank em too eh?

[Tacks]

When does that happen in zerg pvp?

And if you play your rogue like that, our server has a name for it. Bloodstump

[Naethyn]

When I grow up. I want to be as cool as tacks.

[Jei]

Taxx -

opinion on mutilate? how viable of a pvp spec is it?

[Tacks]

Did you read my post above? So far I'm loving it, but it's gear dependant. If you don't have decent gear I'd think of going to old heavy subtlety hemo/swords route.

Depends on what your playstyle is.

[xKALECx]

Thanks so much for the info Taxx!

As far as the warlock, like I said I have a 60 'lock on Garona. I've played with the full affliction tree and full demonology. Either one I'm nearly unkillable. Full affliction is mad dps, and the survivability with full demonology is insane. It's too easy for me. The class that used to take some of the most skill to play effectively just became the easiest class to play.

[Tacks]

It's pretty much true. Any 1v1 fight you get the jump on you won't lose. Deathcoil and fearbomb is now an instawin. Add in Felguards with charge/intercept and you get to LOLWTF levels.

[Susvain]

Who are your friends in Jaedenar? I'm in that battlegrounp on horde icecrown

[xKALECx]

Taxx, what add-on's are you using with your rogue?

And my characters on Jaedenar are all alliance for the first time, Susvain.

[Tacks]

The only Rogue mod I use is stunwatch. Hell I still use the standard blizzard UI.

[Eldred]

Tacks is a new version of stunwatch out? I'm just using Natures Enemy Cast Bar atm to time stuns / saps / gouges. It's not bad but I liked having my stun timers in a different area than boss mod cool downs.