Some good news....

[araby]

I thought the antichrist was also going to be someone who is wonderful, and yet not.

[Narrock]

I'm going to have to agree with the fascists on this one, I really wouldn't care of a similar thing was introduced here. Hell, I don't really mind have a chip put in my brain personally.

How about GPS chips being put into children, so that if they're abducted, law enforcement personnel would be able to locate them within hours (hopefully before something bad happens to them)?

[Narrock]

I thought the antichrist was also going to be someone who is wonderful, and yet not.

Yes, indeed... a wolf in sheep's clothing. This person is supposed to be extremely charismatic and intelligent. One thing to remember though... the bible states that Jesus will come back the same way he left... from the sky... and all eyes will see. But before this second coming of Christ, will come the antichrist... the charismatic individual you referred to.

[Evermore]

yea and the antichrist is the one who brings true peace in the middle east.
IF you read further it is suggested he is already here.

I don't live in a shell at all. You're just making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Don't try to hide behind the cost factor. You are against everything Bush does, period. I see right through your bs.

If you ever got involved with any kind of bible study (I'm guessing probably not) you'd know that the chip is referring to a requirement to engage in any kind of commerce, and that to be eligible for this chip you would have to denounce God and accept the new world leader as your new "god" or "savior."

Bush is a Christian, and would never advocate or support the new world order chip.

Now, getting back to the ID card... if it means we will live safer as a society by requiring this ID, then I'd be all for it.

I'm not hiding behind the cost factor, thou you neatly avoided it. Apparently you don’t read. The cost factor is only ONE of the issues. Lets mention the fact that this is unconstitutional. Typical you would downplay this. Read more here

In your bubble, a national ID would work. In the real world, it can't work.

In your bubble, you would also like it that you are tracked wherever you go and what ever you do. Hell I bet you would like it if this information was used to levy new taxes on you. In the real world, this is wrong.

Here is a good quote for you.

"...the war on terror should not become an excuse to empower various authorities to demand to "see your papers please" any time, any place, without a shred of suspicion or justification.
"

This can only make us that much less free.


You are right. I am against everything Bush does. Period. This is a good thing. Why? Because Bush is a fuck-up. The guy can’t even put 2 sentences together unless he is reading from a teleprompter.





Findlaw Page this comes from

Why the REAL ID Act May Actually Harm, Not Bolster, National Security

Supporters of the REAL ID Act claim that its provisions will make America safer from terrorists. Yet, one of the main reasons America is a target is the perception that it is arrogant, and lacks respect for people beyond our borders. By flouting well-known international norms, the REAL ID Act only exacerbates such a perception.

Even as the U.S.'s own allies - such as the European nations who are linked through the European Court of Human Rights - try to connect their international norms with their domestic system, the U.S. blatantly violates these very norms.

It thus risks alienating the very nations on which we have repeatedly been dependent in war-on-terrorism enforcement. These - and many others - are among the nations we most need to cooperate with, and share information and expertise with, if we are to effectively prevent another attack. (This is equally true as it pertains to other national security goals, such as partnering with Europe to challenge China's growing military capabilities, as pointed out in the June edition of The Atlantic Monthly) Unfortunately, the REAL ID Act only moves us even further apart.

By contrast, abiding by the international norms the U.S. has promised to honor - and even, in some cases, touted - would present the U.S. as a nation that wants to share a set of values with the rest of the world. It would reassure allies that they are right to join together with the U.S.
For all these reasons, the REAL ID Act may compromise our collective security more than it protects it. Thus, refusing to support this Act is not only the right thing to do; it is also the wise and safe thing to do.



As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "One's philosophy is not best expressed in words; it is expressed in the choices one makes... and the choices we make are ultimately our responsibility."

Take your blinders off.

[Evermore]

try this.

type this into a Google search

WHere is the antichrist from?

look at the first hit.

i lol'd

[araby]

I still can't help the feeling I got about Obama when I saw him. I immediately thought of the antichrist.

[Agrajag]

there are chips that are currently being used that we are unaware of.

If we are unaware of these chips how do you know they are currently being used?

[Tossica]

I still can't help the feeling I got about Obama when I saw him. I immediately thought of the antichrist.

Since there was no "Christ", there will not be an antichrist. Don't lose any sleep over it.

[Lueyen]

I once had a brief conversation with a guy who thought that chips were implanted via vaccinations.. of course he also called computers the "tools of Satan", I just stared at him dumbfounded and walked away.

[Harrison]

I still can't help the feeling I got about Obama when I saw him. I immediately thought of the antichrist.

Since there was no "Christ", there will not be an antichrist. Don't lose any sleep over it.

Because Jesus never existed........

Oh sorry, I mistook you for someone with a clue.

[Tossica]

Jesus existed, sure. He just isn't the son of god and all that other foolishness.

[Darcler]

I worked with Jesus at my first job. True story. I'm pretty sure he was an illegal.

[Phlegm]

I worked with Jesus at my first job. True story. I'm pretty sure he was an illegal.

Off course he was illegal. There no way Homeland Security is going to let anyone with a large following from the middle east in this country.

[Harrison]

Jesus existed, sure. He just isn't the son of god and all that other foolishness.

Wow, you sure do know a lot.

I am so glad to be graced by your presence!

Fucking moron...

[Narrock]

Jesus existed, sure. He just isn't the son of god and all that other foolishness.

Wow, you sure do know a lot.

I am so glad to be graced by your presence!

Fucking moron...

I won't come down too hard on Tossica for his belief systems (although he does take a very crass position on religion). The entire concept of God and Jesus is mind-boggling to say the least. It's all faith-based (as you know) and to not believe in it doesn't make you a bad person.

On the opposite spectrum of believers are the non-believers... the secular progressives, and out of those secular progressives, some of them are pretty vulgar in their opinions about religion, and think they are the right ones and that whoever has faith is unintelligent/ignorant/wacky, etc., and that elitist attitude is something I have a problem with. If I'm not mistakin' I think that's what you are irked about too.

[Zanchief]

Jesus existed, sure. He just isn't the son of god and all that other foolishness.

Wow, you sure do know a lot.

I am so glad to be graced by your presence!

Fucking moron...

I guess you didn't listen to me.

Fucking moron...(and hypocrite)

[Evermore]

Everything is going overboard, and borderlines on pure stupidity and ignorance.

A lot, obviously, everything...now you're just fucking dumb.

Harrison, please tell us what he has done right. I am curious to know.

I don't see any laws being waived, nor do I see any liberty impact outside of the fear mongering being wrongly represented here. Please tell me any laws being violated.

The latter things you are addressing are merely addendums to this particular bill that Evermore is against without any good factual reasoning why. I still don't see any. Well, outside of it's from those evil Republicans.

laws no. its unconsitiutional. Also my reasons are in the links i posted. have you looked?


EDIT: adding some specifics.
Bill of Rights
Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


this is why its unconstitutional.

[Lueyen]

I don't see any laws being waived, nor do I see any liberty impact outside of the fear mongering being wrongly represented here. Please tell me any laws being violated.

The latter things you are addressing are merely addendums to this particular bill that Evermore is against without any good factual reasoning why. I still don't see any. Well, outside of it's from those evil Republicans.

Evermore I think this is the second time you've "quoted" me when you were actually quoting Lyion. Quite frankly on this issue I'm not a fan of the idea of a national ID.

[Lyion]

Except the ID act isn't a National ID Card. It's a standardized drivers license which will make huge inroads to combat fraud, identity theft, and allow for streamlining of public services.

We already have a de facto National ID Card in ones Social Security Card. My hope is we can suppress this by forcing the Drivers License to take its place, and not allowing the SSN to be this.

There are no constitutional violations of this. Again, the only big problem is the initial costs, which many states balk at, and understandably so. The Feds should be paying more for this, but at the same time tying it to Federal money for these states.

[Evermore]

I don't see any laws being waived, nor do I see any liberty impact outside of the fear mongering being wrongly represented here. Please tell me any laws being violated.

The latter things you are addressing are merely addendums to this particular bill that Evermore is against without any good factual reasoning why. I still don't see any. Well, outside of it's from those evil Republicans.

Evermore I think this is the second time you've "quoted" me when you were actually quoting Lyion. Quite frankly on this issue I'm not a fan of the idea of a national ID.

ah shit sorry. its fixed.

[Arlos]

Bullshit it will help against identity theft. If everyone's ID resides in one big database, it will make it EASIER for people to commit identity theft, as they'll just have one place to go to get the information. Also, it does more than standardize the ID card system, it REQUIRES you to have one, and display it when asked. Right now you can't be required to display your social security card when you want to take a bus to Atlantic City. You can and WOULD be required to display THIS ID card. HUGE difference.

I repeat, why SHOULD the issuing of driver's licenses be standardized across the country? You don't think there are regional issues that might matter that individual states put on the question list now? You don't think issues of, say, mountain driving, snow driving, and ice driving might come up in Montana or North Dakota? Florida, however, would probably have questions about diving in heavy rains. Arizona about proper preparations before going across the desert. Kansas might have rules for 13 year olds getting a license, if they're in an extremely rural area, and need to drive to get to school or to help around the farm. Those're just the tip of the iceberg. The fact is that different places in the country have different needs when it comes to certifying their residents for driving in those areas. A standardized system would be unable to take all of that into account, and would be patently useless.

Furthermore, there are plenty of other issues within that bill that are problematic. What about people who lack birth cirtificates? Say they were wiped out in Katrina, or they're an immigrant from a country where such records weren't kept? Why should the states be forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to modify their records and licensing structures to follow a mandate they don't agree with?

Also, how does it go one iota to combating fraud? You claiming the new license will somehow be counterfit-proof? Somehow, I rather doubt that, given that none of the current licenses is, and hell, none of our currency is either. Hell, even if by some miracle it IS counterfit-proof, all it takes is one DMV employee with records access being willing to take bribes, and bingo, you have yourself a "legitimate" fake ID.

So again, I see no advantages whatsoever to this system, and a huge number of disadvantages. Thus I see no purpose whatsoever in implementing this system, especially as it will cost taxpayers billions for no benefit. Oh, and those points I discussed where the SPECIFIC POINTS YOU RAISED, Lyion. That's why I discussed them. Some of them might be worthy objectives if they were done individually. As long as completing them is tied to the national ID card system, however, they should die on the vine, as their benefits are in no way outweighed by the negatives associated with the national ID card. Period.

-Arlos

[Evermore]

There are no constitutional violations of this.

its a huge violation in the FACT this power was not expressly granted to the federal government .

[Lyion]

I fail to see any good or strong points except it costs too much, which I agree with.

Standardization allows for ease of information. The new standards are STRONGER and allow for more information to be checked to make it MORE difficult to ID theft, unlike today whereis all one needs is an SSN number.

Sorry, it makes sense and is a good bill. It's why it was passed.

[Arlos]

You ignored every single one of my comments except as regarding standardization and ID theft. Both of which positions of yours I completely disagree with. Standardization is bad because driving conditions across the nation are NOT STANDARD. Thus, every region will have different needs when it comes to creating the standards for driving in that region.

You also ignore the fact that there is a LOT more to that bill than just standardization. It requires people to have that ID for *EVERYTHING* which is not currently the case. You aren't required to display your social security card when you wish to travel, for example. If ALL the bill did was standardize driving test requirements, I would have a lot less problem with it. But that's not all it does, and you know it. It turns the driver's license into a national ID card system, and that I am 100% opposed to. So, STOP insisting it's all about standardization, because that is patently untrue, as you well know. So stop lying.

-Arlos

[Evermore]

You ignored every single one of my comments except as regarding standardization and ID theft. Both of which positions of yours I completely disagree with. Standardization is bad because driving conditions across the nation are NOT STANDARD. Thus, every region will have different needs when it comes to creating the standards for driving in that region.

You also ignore the fact that there is a LOT more to that bill than just standardization. It requires people to have that ID for *EVERYTHING* which is not currently the case. You aren't required to display your social security card when you wish to travel, for example. If ALL the bill did was standardize driving test requirements, I would have a lot less problem with it. But that's not all it does, and you know it. It turns the driver's license into a national ID card system, and that I am 100% opposed to. So, STOP insisting it's all about standardization, because that is patently untrue, as you well know. So stop lying.

-Arlos

he is ignoring mine as well.