Do as I say. Not as I do.

[kaharthemad]

i love the words 'staff trailers' in otherwords.. I get this...you get da double wide.

[Lyion]

No, he does not conserve more energy than people similar to him. The man who is the object of most of his scorn is 1000 times more green than him.

I'd say being presented overt facts like power usage and trying to spin it would moreso be a sign of lack of objectivity, but that's just me.

Harri, can you make that pic a clickable thumbnail, please? I run 1920x1200 and that pic kills this thread for me in my browser.

[Zanchief]

He drives a hybrid, he pays tons of money in solar power and you pick one thing, electricity consumption, which isn't even what he's talking about in the movie and comparing him to a single other person who happens to live on a ranch with horses and shit.

Compare him to the average person in his situation. I think the difference would be remarkable.

[Harrison]

Do you know what electricity consumption equals out to? It's one of the primary categories used to calculate your "carbon footprint".

[Zanchief]

No, he does not conserve more energy than people similar to him. The man who is the object of most of his scorn is 1000 times more green than him.

I like your objective 1000 times stat, but since your article about Ws ranch has absolutely no statistics about actual energy consumption, it might very be more than Gore's home. I'm sure his ranch consumes much more than the "average home" how much more we can't know from the posted article.

[Lyion]

You missed the part where he spends 1000 dollars/mo on Natural Gas consumption.

You ignore his private jet, despite the fact Kahar posted a link. It's been on the public record.

He doesn't pay a ton in solar power, he pays extra to use TVA's alternate fuel sources, of which there is limited supply. It is NOT a replacement for using less energy which would enable more people to use that renewable energy, which would be real conservation.

Show me the average multi millionaire like him and their energy usage, by comparison. I have no idea if he uses more or less, but given his politicization and provocation he should be in a teepee being powered by wind chimes, and not with such a a ginormous footprint.

Good gads, it'd be like Spazz started posting how evil drugs are and that everyone needs to quit while he's hitting them up hard. Granted, by Spazz' demographic he'd be in the bottom tier of completely wasted stoners, but it's the whole hypocritical principle that non objective people ignore.

[kaharthemad]

but lyion...his private jet....he uses it to tell us how bad we all are on caring about global warming....he neeeeeeeds it.


and natural gas? well water heating, and his outdoor heated pool. he neeeeeeds it.

[Zanchief]

Do you know what electricity consumption equals out to? It's one of the primary categories used to calculate your "carbon footprint".

Hrmm "I'm sorry for misreading your post and posting a huge retardedly inappropriate picture", would have sufficed.

[Zanchief]

You missed the part where he spends 1000 dollars/mo on Natural Gas consumption.

You ignore his private jet, despite the fact Kahar posted a link. It's been on the public record.

He doesn't pay a ton in solar power, he pays extra to use TVA's alternate fuel sources, of which there is limited supply. It is NOT a replacement for using less energy which would enable more people to use that renewable energy, which would be real conservation.

Show me the average multi millionaire like him and their energy usage, by comparison. I have no idea if he uses more or less, but given his politicization and provocation he should be in a teepee being powered by wind chimes, and not with such a a ginormous footprint.

Good gads, it'd be like Spazz started posting how evil drugs are and that everyone needs to quit while he's hitting them up hard. Granted, by Spazz' demographic he'd be in the bottom tier of completely wasted stoners, but it's the whole hypocritical principle that non objective people ignore.

How do you even begin to say he has a ginormous footprint without providing one piece of factual evidence to compare his consumption?

You're trying to discredit him without providing any facts to support your argument. Does that sound objective to you?

[Lyion]

No less objective than someone who ignores the plethora of facts in this thread, like:

1. Private Jet
2. 1000/mo gas bill
3. Huge energy consumption
4. Huge wasteful mansion 100 times more eco unfriendly than Ws
5. Lots of hot air from lecturing others to conserve

None of those are in doubt. I have presented a lot of facts. Now, care to be objective and admit these are facts, or present some facts of your own besides saying 'possibly'?

[Zanchief]

No less objective than someone who ignores the plethora of facts in this thread, like:

1. Private Jet
2. 1000/mo gas bill
3. Huge energy consumption
4. Huge wasteful mansion 100 times more eco unfriendly than Ws
5. Lots of hot air from lecturing others to conserve

None of those are in doubt. I have presented a lot of facts. Now, care to be objective and admit these are facts, or present some facts of your own besides saying 'possibly'?

You have Ws energy bill? You know it's "100 times more eco friendly"?

Yes, he flies a jet. So does everyone else in his position.

Plus feel free to put his energy bill in context by providing some statistics.

[Tikker]

No less objective than someone who ignores the plethora of facts in this thread, like:

1. Private Jet
2. 1000/mo gas bill
3. Huge energy consumption
4. Huge wasteful mansion 100 times more eco unfriendly than Ws
5. Lots of hot air from lecturing others to conserve

None of those are in doubt. I have presented a lot of facts. Now, care to be objective and admit these are facts, or present some facts of your own besides saying 'possibly'?

you guys keep missing the point of what Zan is saying


how does Gore's mansion compare to other mansions of the same size?

you can't fucking compare an office building to a 2 bedroom bungalow, so wtf would you compare a 10k sq/foot house to a 1k sq/foot house?
that makes no fucking sense at all

how does gore's footprint compare to someone else that does relatively the same thing? (shit even pick someone like clinton who flies around and gives speeches (or any other ex-president for that matter))

[Harrison]

Now you're saying it's alright because "everyone else in his position" does it?

Does "everyone else in his position" go around telling the world to save energy by starting with themselves and their own personal contributions?

[Lyion]

No less objective than someone who ignores the plethora of facts in this thread, like:

1. Private Jet
2. 1000/mo gas bill
3. Huge energy consumption
4. Huge wasteful mansion 100 times more eco unfriendly than Ws
5. Lots of hot air from lecturing others to conserve

None of those are in doubt. I have presented a lot of facts. Now, care to be objective and admit these are facts, or present some facts of your own besides saying 'possibly'?

You have Ws energy bill? You know it's "100 times more eco friendly"?

Yes, he flies a jet. So does everyone else in his position.

Plus feel free to put his energy bill in context by providing some statistics.

You even quoted the post I did where W's 4000 square foot house is hugely eco friendly, and uses 1/4 of the energy of a normal house.

The simple fact is a guy who is a champion of conservation and trying to get America to change and stop using energy should be waving the banner, not being a heavy user, in my opinion.

It doesn't MATTER the average of energy consumption among fat rich white guys. It'd be like Mel Gibson deciding to be the spokesman for Anti Semitism.

[Tikker]

:wtf:

Now you're saying it's alright because "everyone else in his position" does it?

Does "everyone else in his position" go around telling the world to save energy by starting with themselves and their own personal contributions?

I'm not saying it's alright at all

What I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to compare someone in an unusual position with regular old joe blow

If you compare Gore to another ex-president who maintains a similar lifestyle, and their environmental footprint is comparable, call Gore a hypocrite all you like. It would be deserved in that case

If there's a vast difference in Gore being much more environmentally friendly, then it's hard to whine about it

that's all I'm saying

[kaharthemad]

Yes, he flies a jet. So does everyone else in his position.

and how many of those are bitching to me about being wasteful? Oh wait he is the frontrunner on that campaign. Practice what you preach on shit like that.

Is w's bill higher or lower then gores? dont know. what I do know is I see someone that is preaching about conservation and not doing it himself.

If he is so concerned, he can then fly MAC flight to wherever he is going, he does not need to have a personal jet.

He can drop electricity down and gas consumption down easily by moving to a different house or he can drill on his land for natural gas.

I am far from perfect when it comes to consumption of resources, I have 4 pc's on all the time and I could easily walk to work if my knee does not fall off. However I am not flyng a lear jet that holds 6000 gallons of aviation fuel total and has to be refueled once enroute from coast to coast.

[Harrison]

I get your point, and we've already gone over that.

It would be nice to see what's going on in there. However, I still believe he should be held to a higher standard. (set by himself no less)

[Tikker]

I get your point, and we've already gone over that.

It would be nice to see what's going on in there. However, I still believe he should be held to a higher standard. (set by himself no less)

no, you guys keep ignoring the point and bringing up Gore vs Joe Blow


I do agree that if he's going to talk shit about people wasting energy he should be held to a higher standard

ps I agree the fucker should fly coach instead of on a private jet

[kaharthemad]

I get your point, and we've already gone over that.

It would be nice to see what's going on in there. However, I still believe he should be held to a higher standard. (set by himself no less)

totally agree

[Harrison]

You're not allowed to agree here.

You have to write up long-winded, multiple-hundreds of words reply that could easily be summed up in half as much.

[kaharthemad]

I get your point, and we've already gone over that.

It would be nice to see what's going on in there. However, I still believe he should be held to a higher standard. (set by himself no less)

no, you guys keep ignoring the point and bringing up Gore vs Joe Blow


I do agree that if he's going to talk shit about people wasting energy he should be held to a higher standard

ps I agree the fucker should fly coach instead of on a private jet

thanks tik.

But what I am saying is this. If you expect to preach to others about conservation, you need to look at your own living. I can give you a perfect example.

I now work for two companies. Anyone that lives in the triangle(raleigh, durham, Charlotte) knows the name Bob Luddy.

Bob owns captive aire, as well as 3 schools both private and charter. Of which I am also the IT admin for one.

He owns a gulf 500. same fuel consumption as the gulf 400.

He also owns an estate here complete with 3 guest houses, and a very large house, approx same size as Gores.

Since he does not preach about turning off my fucking lights and making sure there is a green sticker on my sock drawer I dont bitch about his consumption, however, yes he prolly has a high electric bill. However he does not fly the gulf stream across country unless he is going to be making 5 to 6 stops during the day. He flies business class when he can but I have been told people have seen him in coach. He does alot of traveling, back and forth to cali once a month, as well as 5 other places we have factories. But that jet sits on the tarmac for weeks at a time, mainly cause it is expensive as hell to fly.

[Tikker]

I get your point, and we've already gone over that.

It would be nice to see what's going on in there. However, I still believe he should be held to a higher standard. (set by himself no less)

no, you guys keep ignoring the point and bringing up Gore vs Joe Blow


I do agree that if he's going to talk shit about people wasting energy he should be held to a higher standard

ps I agree the fucker should fly coach instead of on a private jet

thanks tik.

But what I am saying is this. If you expect to preach to others about conservation, you need to look at your own living. I can give you a perfect example.

I now work for two companies. Anyone that lives in the triangle(raleigh, durham, Charlotte) knows the name Bob Luddy.

Bob owns captive aire, as well as 3 schools both private and charter. Of which I am also the IT admin for one.

He owns a gulf 500. same fuel consumption as the gulf 400.

He also owns an estate here complete with 3 guest houses, and a very large house, approx same size as Gores.

Since he does not preach about turning off my fucking lights and making sure there is a green sticker on my sock drawer I dont bitch about his consumption, however, yes he prolly has a high electric bill. However he does not fly the gulf stream across country unless he is going to be making 5 to 6 stops during the day. He flies business class when he can but I have been told people have seen him in coach. He does alot of traveling, back and forth to cali once a month, as well as 5 other places we have factories. But that jet sits on the tarmac for weeks at a time, mainly cause it is expensive as hell to fly.

Was there a point in there?


Regardless of whether or not Gore's being hypocritical, I think his message about the environment is important

I think it's a shame that people ignore it because of politics tho

[Lyion]

Regardless of whether or not Gore's being hypocritical, I think his message about the environment is important

I think it's a shame that people ignore it because of politics tho

Nobody in this thread said it wasn't. We merely said Al was a hypocrite, which you either agree with or don't.

I have no issues with his energy consumption or his lifestyle. I do believe he might be a bit more credible pushing energy conservation if he set the example, versus a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

[Arlos]

Gulf Streams use significantly less fuel than commercial jets, and not even just because of the size difference. Their engines are a newer design and thus are quieter, less polluting, and more fuel efficient. Also, does Mr. Luddy have a sizeable Secret Service detachment that is required to folow him around? Does the Secret Service let *ANY* ex-president or ex-Vice President fly commercial, due to the security risks? Does Carter? Does Bush Sr.? Not to mention, if he's doing book signings, and media events, something tells me he's stopping at tons of places across the country, and thus Commercial doesn't work very well, just like your beloved Mr Luddy.

Do you know for a fact that geothermal systems are viable in tennessee? The geology of that region is highly different than Texas, after all. Do you have any information in how much power usage Bush Sr. uses, as he's probably the next closest comparison to someone in Gore's position? Hell, do you have actual factual numbers on consumption of W's ranch, beyond general platitudes? Sure it's nice that W was concerned about ecology on his ranch, that definitely earns a kudo from me. Only a small one though, as his policies have systematically worsened the environmental protections that we once enjoyed, making the ecology worse for the rest of us.

You don't like Gore, we get it. He could wear a hair shirt, live in a tar shack like the Unabomber and get to places by riding a donkey, and you'd still find something to bitch about the man, because you don't like his message.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

You don't like Gore, we get it. He could wear a hair shirt, live in a tar shack like the Unabomber and get to places by riding a donkey, and you'd still find something to bitch about the man, because you don't like his message.

bingo