Why the NBA is so far behind NFL and baseball...

[Lyion]

Interesting article

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/inpr ... p?c=191868

today's NBA stars grew up with both Jordan and Jay-Z as their role models. The Michaels, Patricks and Charleses of the past have given way to the Dwyanes, LeBrons, and Carmelos of today. Tattoos and baggy clothes have replaced Armani suits -- or would, if the league hadn't slammed down a dress code. The culture's changing; that's what cultures do. Problem is, not everyone changes with it -- and many of those left behind still man keyboards.

As a result, the frustration with the changing league periodically boils over, leading to a rash of look-what-they-done-to-my-game editorials from sportswriters who apparently wish the players would go back to wearing John Stockton-length pants--and countless sports --bar soliloquies from others who feel much the same way. Last month's NBA All-Star weekend in Las Vegas served as the latest racial flashpoint. Depending on whom you believe, the recent NBA All-Star weekend in Las Vegas was either standard-issue Sin City -- a few arrests, a strip club brawl, the usual--or 300 meets South Central, utter rape-pillage-gunfire anarchy.

That's the operative word in short-handing the new NBA culture, as Jackson and others have noted. "Thug" was co-opted by black culture sometime during the Tupac Era; the last white guys referred to as "thugs" were Marlon Brando and his fellow dockworkers in "On The Waterfront." When people slag NBA players as "thugs," it's a good bet they're not talking about Adam Morrison or J.J. Redick. It's a racial tag, a way to drive in a wedge without looking like a flat-out cross-burning racist. And the sad thing is it's working more effectively than Dwyane Wade in crunch time.

The NBA, moreso than any other sports entity, has the potential to be a bridge between cultures, a way to bring both sides together in cheering some of the best athletes of any color.

It's already produced Jordan, the most widely-known athlete in history, and it's gaining ground fast on soccer as the world's best-known sport. But it's a fragile bridge indeed, with fans of all colors viewing basketball as a zero-sum game, where every stereotypically black or white element (the hip-hop music, the dress code mandating suits on the road) apparently forces out its ethnic opposite. But with every Las Vegas, every Malice at the Palace, another slat falls out of that bridge.

And it's not hard to imagine a time when nobody will be interested in crossing over.

[Jay]

Interesting article

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/inpr ... p?c=191868

today's NBA stars grew up with both Jordan and Jay-Z as their role models. The Michaels, Patricks and Charleses of the past have given way to the Dwyanes, LeBrons, and Carmelos of today. Tattoos and baggy clothes have replaced Armani suits -- or would, if the league hadn't slammed down a dress code. The culture's changing; that's what cultures do. Problem is, not everyone changes with it -- and many of those left behind still man keyboards.

As a result, the frustration with the changing league periodically boils over, leading to a rash of look-what-they-done-to-my-game editorials from sportswriters who apparently wish the players would go back to wearing John Stockton-length pants--and countless sports --bar soliloquies from others who feel much the same way. Last month's NBA All-Star weekend in Las Vegas served as the latest racial flashpoint. Depending on whom you believe, the recent NBA All-Star weekend in Las Vegas was either standard-issue Sin City -- a few arrests, a strip club brawl, the usual--or 300 meets South Central, utter rape-pillage-gunfire anarchy.

That's the operative word in short-handing the new NBA culture, as Jackson and others have noted. "Thug" was co-opted by black culture sometime during the Tupac Era; the last white guys referred to as "thugs" were Marlon Brando and his fellow dockworkers in "On The Waterfront." When people slag NBA players as "thugs," it's a good bet they're not talking about Adam Morrison or J.J. Redick. It's a racial tag, a way to drive in a wedge without looking like a flat-out cross-burning racist. And the sad thing is it's working more effectively than Dwyane Wade in crunch time.

The NBA, moreso than any other sports entity, has the potential to be a bridge between cultures, a way to bring both sides together in cheering some of the best athletes of any color.

It's already produced Jordan, the most widely-known athlete in history, and it's gaining ground fast on soccer as the world's best-known sport. But it's a fragile bridge indeed, with fans of all colors viewing basketball as a zero-sum game, where every stereotypically black or white element (the hip-hop music, the dress code mandating suits on the road) apparently forces out its ethnic opposite. But with every Las Vegas, every Malice at the Palace, another slat falls out of that bridge.

And it's not hard to imagine a time when nobody will be interested in crossing over.

What do they mean zero-sum game? My reading comprehension wins irl.

[Tacks]

Why is the NBA behind? niggers of course

[Zanchief]

You mind posting some ratings numbers for the NBA and baseball, Lyion? I don't think it's that far behind.

[Zanchief]

Why is the NBA behind? niggers of course

Sad thing is, that's pretty much it.

Are NBA athletes poor role models for kids? No not really. There are definitely some bad apples. There are definitely more good ones too. The real problem with the NBA is that no other sport embraces the hip hop culture so overtly in it’s marketing (even though they’re trying to go the other way). Larry Bird was no better a role model than the VAST majority of black athletes in the NBA today, but people don't really care about reality, they care about perceptions.

Kahar once posted on this board that he'd never take his kids to see a game anymore because of all the thugs. That's the reason the sport is hurting, because racial tension in the US is not really doing well, and people view black culture as being riddled with violence. People judge these athletes by their tattoos and the cloth they wear and not by their actions.

The author of the articles mentions how the NBA's thug (black) appearance isn't caused by players like JJ Riddick (DUI) and Adam Morrison (Whiney, unsportsmanlike). Those aren't the "good guys" of the NBA, they're the white guys of the NBA.

People don't like black culture, that's fine, they don't have to watch the NBA if they don't want to, but the NBA is doing fine marketing itself in places where people don't have as big a hang-up on black culture (I know there's a lot of racism in Europe, more so maybe then the US, but they don't care about "hip hop" "thug" stuff).

The article is true and false. The NBA isn't hurting because of its athletes, it's hurting because people can't look past tattoos and gaudy necklaces. That's why David Stern enforced a dress code. To fool people into thinking the NBA is more white so people won't be afraid to bring their kids to a game and see a dangerous minority dressed like a "thug".

[Harrison]

Zan to the rescue!

[Zanchief]

No opinion detected.

[Xaiveir]

Actually i think why the NBA is hurting is because of the way the game is played now. Its all a one man show. To me its not "real basketball". You rarely see good ball movement, you rarely see good defense, all you see is is single isolation plays for your superstar. That is usually in the post, or on the wing with a drive to the hoop with everyone else just standing around watching on your team. Its playground basketball now.

When i watch the Suns play, i enjoy NBA basketball, when i watch the Mavericks play i enjoy NBA basketball, hell when i watched Jordan play who sort of invented the superstar one on one basketball, he still got his team mates involved.

Now we watch D-wade (its not a knock on wade, he is amazing) get the ball, everyone on the Heat stops and watches him drive to the hoop. Team basketball doesnt sell jersey's, superstars sell jerseys.

No off the ball movement from your other 4 people on the team makes it VERY boring to watch imho. I love watching college ball because the majority of the coaches still coach actual movement on their offensive side, and stresses defense on the other.


Its actually similiar to ML baseball right now. Their popularity has dipped dramatically from what it was. Its all, everyone wait and see the stars hit homeruns. You rarely see sac bunts when its needed, or the hit and run done succesfully, the sac fly the little nuonces of baseball that made the game exciting to watch.
Its now just "Hey im going to swing as hard as i can, because chicks dig the long ball"

[Lyion]

The real problem with the NBA is that no other sport embraces the hip hop culture so overtly in it’s marketing

You answered your own question, I think. It has nothing to do with race. The NFL and MLB have a lot of different races. It has to do with the tattoos, bad english, and overall perception that often emanates from the NBA.

The perception in the 80s was Magic, Jordan, Larry and the sport was skyrocketing in appeal since it was cross spectrum.

Today, since the culture has changed and the Tupac attitude unfortunately is very prevalent it turns off a lot of potential fans. That perception is 'The Thug', as this gentlemen wrote.

Zan, I don't have any numbers, but I know the NFL and MLB are waaaay ahead of the NBA in viewers, sales, etc. Last I heard, the NBA was actually less popular than NASCAR.

[Zanchief]

Well NASCAR get's better attendance and ratings then baseball so that's no surprise.

It's true it's all perception. But that just means the average American can't look past appearances.

I bet the NBA gets much better ratings for all the major US sports outside North America.

[Spazz]

Chief have you ever lived in the states? Or maybe somewhere with a nasty ghetto 15 mins down the road ? If the answer is no than you have no idea what the fuck your talking about when it comes to the us and race relations.

[Zanchief]

Would you like to talk about the NBA and the perception VS reality that their athletes have a poor character, Spazz?

[Spazz]

Yea. I understand what karhar is saying about taking his kid to a ball game. They might not all be thugs but a lot of them look and sound like thugs and as a parent he might not want his children to imitate that behavior. You ever see dave chappelle talking about Just becuase I look this way Does not make me this way ? That better ? I thought i was keeping it on topic when you dropped this gem

That's the reason the sport is hurting, because racial tension in the US is not really doing well, and people view black culture as being riddled with violence.

[Arlos]

I think everyone agrees that if the NBA has a problem, it's because of that perceived "thug" element.

The question is, is that the fault of the NBA or the prejudices of the people that might go to games?


Now, I will say that the NBA is far less active in marketing the good stuff players do outside the game, or marketing the real superstar role-model types. Shaq is known as that, but the NBA didn't do that, he did. Even those normally considered good apples, liek Garnett, have been known to punch teammates in practice, and the league doesn't make an effort to push into prominence the ones that anyone could look up to.

Look at what the NFL does, there's constantly features about the charity work some of their players do, or air-time or column-space about how good a person LT is, etc.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

Now, I will say that the NBA is far less active in marketing the good stuff players do outside the game, or marketing the real superstar role-model types. Shaq is known as that, but the NBA didn't do that, he did.

Not true at all. The NBA markets its players to the point of nearly exploiting them with their various charitable programs. The problem is, people don't care about the good stuff, they care about the bad stuff.

I don't have any stats, but I heard a few years ago that the NBA donates FAR more and invests more time with it's players than any other American sport.

It wouldn't surprise me, I don't even think other sports have joint charitable league/player charitable programs (although I could be wrong).

[Lyion]

Actually what Arlos is saying is VERY true, you just miss it being in Canada.

The NFL actively does United Way and other charity commercials En Masse as well as overtly promoting their stars doing charity work.

The NBA doesn't compare at all in the positive player marketing campaign here in the US.

[Zanchief]

The NBA doesn't compare at all in the positive player marketing campaign here in the US.

I disagree. I get all American networks, and sure I don't care about the other leagues but I never hear about them at all. I hear about the NBA stuff all the time even when not actively looking for NBA stuff.

Again, I think this is based on your perception.

[vonkaar]

Yeah, I see the "NBA Cares" commercials about 50x as often as I see the "NFL, giving back" commercials. I'd bet that the NBA spends a MUCH higher percentage of its marketing capital on those charity commercials than the NFL. I remember a post-katrina article that was blasting the NFL for it's lack of support in comparison to the NBA efforts. The examples were everywhere... like, Karl Malone (who I hate, just for the record) who cancelled all logging operations of his Arkansas-based company to send construction relief down south, free of charge. The NBA hosted a GIANT benefits game at the Toyota Center in Houston that featured EVERY ONE of the top50 players... even retired guys... it was like, the greatest all-star game imaginable. All for free, and it raised over a hundred grand for disaster relief.

Shrug... I'm not saying that the NFL doesn't "give back," it's just not nearly as noticable (to me). I'm in a town that EVEN NOW, is ALL about football... yet I'm DEFINITELY seeing more fan-appreciation and charity events coming from the NBA than the NFL.

[Arlos]

I'm not saying the NBA doesn't do good stuff, I know it does. But unless you're already an avid NBA fan, you don't see it. I am sure you two see it far more than most people because you're rabid fans, but for those of us that aren't, we just don't see it, honestly.

BTW, I'm kinda with Xav, I used to watch the NBA back in the 80s all the time, the Lakers vs Celtics battles were awesome. But I just lost interest over the years, especially when the NBA game evolved to the far more plodding style game that it mostly is now, where you could get 72-68 final scores, and no one would really bat an eye. Going from watching Magic to Worthy, say to plod, plod, plod... bleah.

That's why I think the Suns have been a shot in the arm to the NBA: they run, they're fast, they're high flying and high scoring. They're interesting to the casual fan.

-Arlos

[Zanchief]

That's why I think the Suns have been a shot in the arm to the NBA: they run, they're fast, they're high flying and high scoring. They're interesting to the casual fan.

HAHAH sucker, Vonk.

Oh and Arlos, from someone who doesn't watch football I never hear about their charitable contributions. I actually didn't think they did any AT ALL, so that has nothing to do with marketing and more to do with not paying attention.

[vonkaar]

I'm not saying the NBA doesn't do good stuff, I know it does. But unless you're already an avid NBA fan, you don't see it. I am sure you two see it far more than most people because you're rabid fans, but for those of us that aren't, we just don't see it, honestly.

BTW, I'm kinda with Xav, I used to watch the NBA back in the 80s all the time, the Lakers vs Celtics battles were awesome. But I just lost interest over the years, especially when the NBA game evolved to the far more plodding style game that it mostly is now, where you could get 72-68 final scores, and no one would really bat an eye. Going from watching Magic to Worthy, say to plod, plod, plod... bleah.

That's why I think the Suns have been a shot in the arm to the NBA: they run, they're fast, they're high flying and high scoring. They're interesting to the casual fan.

-Arlos

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH

THE SUNS AREN'T THE FIRST TEAM TO DO THAT! NASH LEARNED HOW TO RUN FAST BY PLAYING IN NELLIE'S SYSTEM.

The Kings would have won it all in 2002 playing the exact same system if it wasn't for Kobe going off in game7 of the WCF. The whole early part of the decade, it was Kings / Mavs playing high-tempo, score-at-will but NO DEFENSE basketball and everyone said it WON'T WORK... and it DIDN'T. If Nash was the prophet of this playing style, Don Nelson was the Diety... the Godfather. Nash left and recreated the Suns in his father's image. Nellie couldn't cope the BETRAYAL and so he retired. Avery came in and said, "hey, this won't work!" and so he remade the team, took us to the finals... Suns lose 2 years in a row in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Nellie takes it easy for a year in Maui but then comes out of retirement to remake Golden State which plays TWICE AS FAST as PHOENIX even. It's STUPID how fast they play. They could play on a 4-second shot clock!

There have been 'fluke' teams playing like this for 15 years... it doesn't work, but it's fun as hell.

[Zanchief]

HAHAHAHA

Oh vonk, so true though.

[Phlegm]

The Warriors with the TMC was the first to run the system under Nelson, then he had to fucked it up by trading Richmond to Sacramento for Billy Owens.

[Phlegm]

There are more arrests in the NFL this year than in the NBA. I think the whole Cincinnati team was arrested.

[Xaiveir]

The Suns this year though Vonk (wich is why they are in the media so much, alla other thread we had afew weeks back) is because that style of basketball is more appealing to watch. Suns do that style with the right players, Dallas lacked afew when Nash was there.

I did say i liked the Dallas system this year, its not plod plod plod. If they need to speed the game up, they do, if they need to slow a team down, they do, if they need to hit jumpers they do, if they need to drive to the lane they do etc etc etc.

Thats why Dallas is going to win the Championship this year, i love watching their games. They have so many dynamics, that they are impossible to stop. They actually remind me of the Lakers in the '80s to some degree. They have multi faceted game, that can beat anyone.