Lueyen, Arlos, Snero, Martrae, and a few others...

[Lyion]

Check this article out. It's really good. I'm curious about peoples thoughts on this.

http://www.slate.com/id/2162283

For others who don't read things longer than one paragraph, it's about a woman obsessing over a guy she knew 20 years ago, when she was a teenager, and her stalking of him, and the odd behaviour by yoga therapists who have advice on how to continue her journey of self-discovery with scented bath-oils and aroma therapy candles.

[araby]

Hey, if Buddhism and other Eastern traditions are about compassion, why not skip the scented bath, skip making amends with the self, skip realization of "the opportunity to embrace aparigraha or non-grasping." Instead, go down to the local soup kitchen or homeless shelter and help some people who don't have the resources to send flowers to themselves, people who actually need help. Rather than continuing the endless processes of anointing yourself with overly scented candlelit self-love.

This paragraph is the problem with the article.

When I first started to read I knew exactly what this woman felt (to some degree..20 years of pent up guilt is probably affecting her sanity.)

Recently I have become attracted to and a believer of Buddhist principles, yogas, and meditation. The traditions are about compassion and making amends with the self and grasping realization. Buddhism does suggest that you work for the benefit of others. This last paragraph bugs me because the writer does not want to take it seriously himself...just makes fun. That's annoying.

If there are yoga groups/instructors who are losing track of the real intention then yes, it should be corrected. but this guy doesn't help much in his sarcastic article.

I have shunned yoga in groups because of the way it's been "soccer-mom'ed" to death. I would rather do it myself, in my home without what other people think. When people started to realize how yoga could benefit them and they started to use it for monetary gain (the mats, the workshops that aren't doing their jobs like in the article) it began a fad. Yoga has become a fad.

It's not the Buddhists' problem that yoga became a fad. If you're going to wag your finger, do it properly.

[KILL]

While he makes a valid point about the commercialization of eastern philosophy, I really don't see what's so great about the article. I might find it more interesting if I read the article in Yoga Journal. Maybe you did, Lyion?

[Arlos]

In all honesty, among the serious pagan/Wiccan community, the "New Age" movement is referred to as "newage" to rhyme with "sewage". There's a big difference between embracing and walking on a spiritual path and using that to achieve enlightenment or greater connection to the spiritual world, and the quite different "Oh crystals are all the rage these days, I think I'll pick up a dozen and proudly display them around my home". (never mind the fact that 95% of "Crystals" you see for sale have been blasted out of the earth with explosives and gathered by machines, so how you expect to get positive anything from something created by violence and soulless methods, I have no idea.)

Anyway, as for Yoga specifically, I see a big difference between those using it as a fitness method and those who really embrace the true spirituality behind it. As a pure exercise routine, I'm sure it's great, and if that's all people want out of it, hey, that's perfectly OK, there's nothign wrong with that. Likewise, if people want to seek out the true philosophical teachings as well, that's wonderful. (though good luck finding a real teacher, and if you do, it's going to be someone working out of a hole-in-the-wall studio with maybe 3-4 SERIOUS students, and *NOT* a 30-person class at 24hr Fitness, THAT I can guarantee you.)

The problem arises when people who go for the fitness glom onto the surface spirituality and stop there, and never actually try and understand the deeper meanings. That's where you get cases like ObsessiveChick. Not that that is unique to Yoga, of course, I am sure you get the same in many martial arts classes as well, etc. Unfortunately, you're never going to be able to do anything about it; actually working towards deeper understanding is hard work, and 95% of people don't want to be bothered. So, as a result, I'm afraid stuff like what the article writer is complaining about is here to stay, without our society undergoing radical changes from it's current shallow materialistic focus, anyway.

-Arlos

[KaiineTN]

There are many different kinds of Yogas (Jnana, Bhakti, Kundalini, Karma, Raja, etc.), but people usually think of Hatha Yoga, the physical exercise Yoga, whenever they see the word. All Yogas are are methods that can be used to help people live spiritually, it's pretty much a way of meditating. If you practice Hatha Yoga and that isn't your goal, it's not really Yoga, it's just stretching and balancing. There's a lot more than the physical aspect of it that makes it Yoga. It is sad how commercialized it has become.

I'll type out a section from my eastern religions book.

Hindu Meditation: More Than Emptying the Mind

Over the past three decades, meditation has become popular in the Western world. From students in elementary schools to executives in corporate offices, all kinds of people take time out to sit quietly, empty the mind, and let stress float away.

Meditation in Eastern religious traditions, however, is more complex, at least theoretically. The Yoga Sutras, often attributed to the grammarian Patanjali, list eight steps necessary for perfection of meditation:

- Self-control (yama) is the fundamental reorientation of the personality away from selfishness. It involves practicing ahimsa (not hurting living beings), exhibiting sexual restraint, shunning greed, refusing to steal, and embracing truthfulness.

- Observance (niyama) is the regular practice of the five preceding virtuous pursuits.

- Posture (asana) is an integral aspect of meditation, particularly the "lotus posture" (padmasana), in which the person meditation is seated with the legs crossed, each foot touching the opposite leg.

- Breath control (pranayama) involves deep, regular breathing, holding the breathing, and breathing in various rhythms.

- Restraint (pratyahara) helps the meditator tune out external distractions.

- Steadying of the mind (dharana) teaches the meditator to focus on only one object in order to empty the mind of everything else.

- Meditation (dhyana) occurs when the mind is focused only on the object of concentration.

- Samadhi is the mental state achieved by deep meditation, in which the individual loses the sense of being separate from the rest of the universe.

Any systematic set of techniques that leads to greater spirituality can be considered a yoga.

Here's a good quote that I think relates to eastern philosophies and what is often realized through meditation:

"A human being is part of the whole called by us “universe,” a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in all of its beauty… We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humankind is to survive." - Albert Einstein

[Lyion]

It'd be better if you discussed the article, versus googling Yoga for us.

I even gave a nice summary for people who wouldn't be bothered with reading two pages.

At a minimum, read Arlos' post and discuss it, since he actually gets the point of the article, and tries to discuss it.

There are some good <and not so good> points in the article in regards to how some miss the whole point of something by bending it to suit them, versus understanding the nature of something in the first place.

[KaiineTN]

I didn't Google anything. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions about Yoga in general for the sake of the discussion. I read all the posts and the article.

[araby]

It'd be better if you discussed the article, versus googling Yoga for us.

I even gave a nice summary for people who wouldn't be bothered with reading two pages.

At a minimum, read Arlos' post and discuss it, since he actually gets the point of the article, and tries to discuss it.

There are some good <and not so good> points in the article in regards to how some miss the whole point of something by bending it to suit them, versus understanding the nature of something in the first place.

And I think that the article-overall-because of the writer's inability to understand the nature of the woman's problem, fails to deliver its point because he did so in exploiting this woman's problem, which is a delusory state of mind that was being fed by the wrong ideas through yoga practice (or the non-traditional ways perhaps.) Had he truly wanted to wag his finger, like I said, he would have done more to understand the woman's intentions thus his own would be understood.

instead he sucummbs to the nature of doubt or something that doesn't exist-his knowledge is incorrect. The nature of reality is to hide and he hides in his ignorance on the subject. He doesn't understand the principles behind Buddhism, he mocks them and questions them. That is okay, however it fails to make its point.

[KaiineTN]

Yoga is originally and primarily part of Hindu philosophy. Buddhism sort of grew out of Hinduism in many ways, so any Yogic practices and the principles behind them that are found in Buddhism owe their credit to Hinduism.

[KILL]

There are some good <and not so good> points in the article in regards to how some miss the whole point of something by bending it to suit them, versus understanding the nature of something in the first place.

Which pretty much sums up every religion

[Lyion]

Except the article doesn't deal at all with the original, but the bending and twisting of western concepts in an attempt to fit an ideal into what we want it to be, versus how it is represented.

[Lueyen]

American culture and our fast food society tends to change (or if you prefer pervert) anything that doesn't yield an immediate easy measurable gratification. We do it with nearly everything, usually something akin to a sample scratching the surface then melding it into something we take as our own often time with only a slight resemblance to the origin. Look at what we've done with cultural foods as another example.

Most eastern philosophy whether tied to physical discipline as with yoga or martial arts, or tied more toward spirituality and what is more recognizable to us as religion are meant to be a life time pursuit, not something you master in a few months in two to three hour classes a few times a week.

Having had limited exposure to Yoga, my perception of the situation comes more from my experiences with martial arts, and while there are many differences in this area I think there is a lot of similarity.

The problem I see with the subject of the article is a failing on two parts, first with the instructor(s) and with the student. For the teacher(s) part often times the dollar rules the presentation. It's not an easy sell to say that the path will be a long difficult one where it's likely you won't even reach the destination you are aiming for. For the student the return from the commitment rules the level of commitment. The physical benefits are easily attainable in relative comparison to the mental or spiritual ones. The return for physical practices was measurable immediately and so confusion results when the mental and spiritual are not there as quickly. The solution to her problem (and it appears to me to be wholly her problem) didn't present it's self immediately and in short order so something MUST be wrong, which demanded an immediate change of course and perception.

All and all I see this sort of problem as almost self perpetuating in nature. She seems to be yearning for resolution, but the path becomes to difficult or because of lack of patience ineffective. She then changes her view of the situation or the problem to be solved, and her response, none of which directly effectively deals with her needs. When a solution doesn't work, that doesn't mean you change the problem and try a different solution. In short she seemed to be looking for an easy way out, and in the end found that empty.

[Martrae]

And I think that the article-overall-because of the writer's inability to understand the nature of the woman's problem, fails to deliver its point because he did so in exploiting this woman's problem, which is a delusory state of mind that was being fed by the wrong ideas through yoga practice (or the non-traditional ways perhaps.) Had he truly wanted to wag his finger, like I said, he would have done more to understand the woman's intentions thus his own would be understood.

instead he sucummbs to the nature of doubt or something that doesn't exist-his knowledge is incorrect. The nature of reality is to hide and he hides in his ignorance on the subject. He doesn't understand the principles behind Buddhism, he mocks them and questions them. That is okay, however it fails to make its point.

Araby, I think you've missed the point of the article. The woman isn't the point it was the failure of the yoga community (as represented by that magazine) to deal with her situation in a way that embraced true yoga principles. He wasn't mocking Buddhism....he was mocking that magazines lack of understanding and sense.

The fact they even printed such drivel and tried to wrap it up in 'Eastern Mystique' is pure crap.

[araby]

I'm sure I misunderstood.